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Old 24th September 2013, 22:59   #331
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

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Originally Posted by HillMan View Post
What #NetfreakBombay mentioned is valid. The biometric scanner feeds the image to the local (operators) system, the software then processes and looks for key features and converts them to a hash tag. the UID database can have multiple hash tags that are similar because of this. But then the name, date of birth, hash tags of fingers and retina will not find a duplicate entry.
You still haven't told me how one fingerprint can create same hash everytime. If the same person enrolls in two different states, how do they detect it?

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Originally Posted by carboy View Post
You don't do hashes. Fingerprints are processed into fingerprint characteristic data using the ISO 19794-2 template or vendor specific templates. When you want to compare against a input fingerprint, you first convert the input also into a template format. Then you narrow down based on the characteristics. Each characteristic would probably allow you to eliminate a huge chunk of fingerprints.
The fingerprint patterns (ulnar/whorl/Arch etc) can cut down some amount of comparisons. But you still aren't any close to doing binary search, there is no hash.

Guys, I have dealt with large amount of data. Most computing techniques don't scale when volume goes nuts. This is one such case. Will all the data be available in a single database? Will the search be done by a super computer doing thousands of parallel comparisons?
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Old 24th September 2013, 23:28   #332
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

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You still haven't told me how one fingerprint can create same hash everytime. If the same person enrolls in two different states, how do they detect it?
Here is an excerpt from the pdf link provided by #NetfreakBombay
Name:  role_of_biometric_technology_in_aadhaar_jan21_2012.gif
Views: 178
Size:  29.2 KB

So they dont deny duplication, but the rate is low. Nothing is every perfect in this world. A zero error in computing terms only means an acceptable error rate
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Old 24th September 2013, 23:46   #333
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

I am asking a technical question. Pointing me to a claim (0.035%) doesn't answer my question. Please tell me how one fingerprint can create same hash everytime.
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Old 24th September 2013, 23:50   #334
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

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Finally, I was waiting long for this judgement
It's not exactly a Judgment, its an interim order!
I'm quoting the relevant part of the order in the excerpt below.

http://courtnic.nic.in/supremecourt/...c%2049412p.txt

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All the matters require to be heard finally. List all matters for final hearing after the Constitution Bench is over.

In the meanwhile, no person should suffer for not getting the Adhaar card inspite of the fact that some authority had issued a circular making it mandatory and when any person applies to get the Adhaar Card voluntarily, it may be checked whether that person is entitled for it under the law and it should not be given to any illegal immigrant.
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Old 25th September 2013, 00:27   #335
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

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How do you create a unique hash? I want to understand that.
Hash is expected to have collisions and hash of whole template is not matched. Instead, individual minutia is hashed and match is based these comparisons(that is why number of comparisons is not 14 which would be the case with perfect hash and 1 billion humans).

Result is a probabilistic match of templates with score of 1 to 100.

One of the academic papers discussing this approach : http://www.cedar.buffalo.edu/~govind...apr05_ver2.pdf

Do you have a Linux server with SAN and ZFS? Its very easy to to benchmark this approach(create 1 million random files of 2 kb each, turn on dedupe at block level and then see how much time it takes to add 1 more file).

Last edited by NetfreakBombay : 25th September 2013 at 00:29.
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Old 25th September 2013, 00:43   #336
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

Thanks, that's something worth checking out.
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Old 25th September 2013, 00:48   #337
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

Perf numbers from UIDAI for online authentication of biometrics:

"Average response time around 200 milliseconds or 295 concurrent requests/sec."

http://www.biometrics.org/bc2012/pre...ampa_v1040.pdf
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Old 25th September 2013, 00:49   #338
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

I find it quite amusing, that all the people who tell me "why privacy if you got nothing to hide" run away and hide when I ask for their credit card number
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Old 25th September 2013, 00:58   #339
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

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I find it quite amusing, that all the people who tell me "why privacy if you got nothing to hide" run away and hide when I ask for their credit card number
every time you hand over your credit card to the cashier, it can be duplicated. Specially a restaurant or petrol bunk where the guy disappears with your card and re-appears with the charge slip. Still we trust the system. Someone can actually make good purchase in your name.

The internet is safer, at least it connects to our banks for authenticating the password.

We survive in a system of trust and hope.
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Old 25th September 2013, 09:47   #340
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

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It's not exactly a Judgment, its an interim order!
I'm quoting the relevant part of the order in the excerpt below.

http://courtnic.nic.in/supremecourt/...c%2049412p.txt

OK I was checking the judgements section of SC website for 3 days to find the ruling. Since this is only and interim order, the war is still on. Let us hope that Constitution Bench agrees to this order ensuring that people who do not want Aadhar do not get cut off from essential services.
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Old 25th September 2013, 09:54   #341
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

Legislation to fix the issues likely in the winter session.
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Old 25th September 2013, 10:39   #342
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

UID with biometrics if implemented well is great, but looks like our 'Con'gress is coming out with its own versions to not make it mandatory
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/i...w/23019207.cms
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Old 25th September 2013, 11:01   #343
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

We were the largest democracy to use EVMs for voting.. now others are adopting it.

We brought in IT services outsourcing revolution.. others copied it.

We invented MGNREGA... UN loved it & African countries are implementing it.

We invented Mid Day meal scheme.. UK is now implementing it on pilot basis.

We have invented UID / Aadhar model... I am sure others will follow. Its brilliant cutting edge technology put to use in the worlds largest IT project.

China leads the world on so many issues, why are we dissing a few things we lead the world on?

Its ok to oppose the Govt of the day on issues without dissing every single achievement of ours as a nation - this is what a mature democracy is about.
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Old 25th September 2013, 11:09   #344
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

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UID with biometrics if implemented well is great, but looks like our 'Con'gress is coming out with its own versions to not make it mandatory
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/i...w/23019207.cms
Please read the article - it says should not be mandatory UNTIL it reaches an adequate level of penetration..

UIDAI already says that they will make any scheme mandatory in any district only if penetration in that district exceeds 80%. Obviously if a district has only 50% penetration they cant make schemes mandatory.
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Old 25th September 2013, 11:15   #345
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

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Please read the article - it says should not be mandatory UNTIL it reaches an adequate level of penetration..

UIDAI already says that they will make any scheme mandatory in any district only if penetration in that district exceeds 80%. Obviously if a district has only 50% penetration they cant make schemes mandatory.
I did read that, but I felt that this is a starting phase to not to make it mandatory. I dont no maybe am feeling too negative about this govt. Cant digest the fact that these guys are doing any good to India.
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