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Old 24th March 2014, 18:38   #451
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

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Originally Posted by sabsubs View Post
Seems like Aadhar hasn't worked.
The goal of aadhar is to provide ID proof to people (of India or otherwise) and is working as intended
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SC came out with orders to center to withdraw orders making Aadhar mandatory for any service.
AFAIK, aadhar was never mandatory for any service. Oil companies asked for aadhar number to transfer subsidy money.

Actually, I have seen people using aadhar card where ID proof is required, like entering airports, travelling by online ticket on train/bus, etc
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Old 24th March 2014, 18:43   #452
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

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AFAIK, aadhar was never mandatory for any service. Oil companies asked for aadhar number to transfer subsidy money.
Heh. Presumably you don't live in Delhi:

http://www.ciol.com/ciol/news/155179...oluntary-delhi

There was also this before the Supreme Court put an end to this kind of nonsense:

http://www.thehindu.com/news/nationa...cle5519929.ece

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Originally Posted by msdivy View Post
The goal of aadhar is to provide ID proof to people (of India or otherwise) and is working as intended
If that is the case, given the plethora of other ID proof people of India or otherwise are eligible to apply for and obtain, Aadhar indeed was a very expensive solution in search of a nonexistent problem.
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Old 24th March 2014, 19:18   #453
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

The idea of aadhar was to find duplicates, i.e., if a person has 2 sets of identities (each with separate aadhar cards), his bluff could be called by matching the bio-metrics. But technical feasibility/capability of matching bio-metrics is still a question.
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Heh. Presumably you don't live in Delhi:
True, every now & then some over enthusiastic department announces that aadhar is mandatory. At least they must wait till 100% folks get aadhar number.
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If that is the case, given the plethora of other ID proof people of India or otherwise are eligible to apply for and obtain, Aadhar indeed was a very expensive solution in search of a nonexistent problem.
The cost of aadhar card is Rs 100 per person on an average. For 1 billion+ people that is 1 billion x Rs 100. Hence the huge amount. Cost of PAN card of around Rs 100. Hence aadhar cost is justified considering that bio-metrics is also collected.
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Old 24th March 2014, 19:37   #454
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

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True, every now & then some over enthusiastic department announces that aadhar is mandatory. At least they must wait till 100% folks get aadhar number.
In this case they did not. So what can the common man do? I mentioned this case only because you claimed "aadhar was never mandatory for any service".

(Here is the order)

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The cost of aadhar card is Rs 100 per person on an average. For 1 billion+ people that is 1 billion x Rs 100. Hence the huge amount. Cost of PAN card of around Rs 100. Hence aadhar cost is justified considering that bio-metrics is also collected.
Well, the idea is to spend that Rs. 100 billion (Rs. 10,000 crore) in ways that genuinely benefit the people of the nation rather than wasting it on a chimera like Aadhar.
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Old 24th March 2014, 21:35   #455
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

I read that Maharashtra government was planning to make Aadhar cards mandatory for crediting salaries for state government employee in the state.

Link for the same:
http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper...cle5166178.ece

With so many id cards available and the government thought that one id card would weed out the duplicates and that too in a country like India!!!

I would say that it's a good decision by honorable Supreme Court. They should have proper laws to back these kinds of schemes and it should not be just an election gimmick.
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Old 25th March 2014, 11:38   #456
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

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Originally Posted by msdivy View Post
The goal of aadhar is to provide ID proof to people (of India or otherwise) and is working as intended
Hi msdivy,

I would beg to slightly differ on that. The aadhar when delivered to you clearly states that "This is proof of Identity. Not of nationality".
I wonder what is its use of an identity document issued by indian government when it does not proves your nationality. It clearly means any non-Indian can get it too.. Am i correct!!!
Why has government wasted over 900 Crores on this scheme? Wasn't a driving lisence or a PAN card enough for Identity proofs & Passport as proof of nationality. This is an epic waste of money, if this is only for linking to a bank account & then crediting a subsidy few days later..

I would like to point out here that, during the process of renewing my passport, the officer kept the copies of my aadhar aside (read: returned) & asked me to produce more/other address & identity proofs.

I am happy, that the scheme aadhar being mandatory to avail gas subsidy is scrapped; but sad to have wasted nearly 2 hours (+2 hours each of my 6 family members), standing in line to ge it. What a waste.

Last edited by saurabh2711 : 25th March 2014 at 11:41.
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Old 25th March 2014, 11:51   #457
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

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Originally Posted by msdivy View Post
The goal of aadhar is to provide ID proof to people (of India or otherwise) and is working as intended
But why.
Lets do this. Lets make another card. Gadha card. Spend 10,000 crores.
So we have another card.
Lets do it every year.

I have Pan card, Passport, driving license.
What is the purpose of adhaar then.

If pancard, passport, driving license are not enough, then why will Aadhar be enough?
We will need Gaddha too.
After that Bandar card

Because this is what has happened.
We have been made donkeys and monkeys, and 1000s of crores have gone into a pit, and many companies making components for such hair brained ideas have profited .

And the best part. The downtrodden section(our favorite agony aunt topic) do not even have recognizable fingerprints due to hard labor. The joke is on us, and we are the jokers, and the backers of these schemes are laughing all the way to the bank.
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Old 25th March 2014, 12:09   #458
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
I have Pan card, Passport, driving license.
What is the purpose of adhaar then.
I have PAN, DIN, voter Id, ration card, passport and driving license. But no adhaar... I mean why the hell do I need one more?
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Old 25th March 2014, 12:14   #459
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

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Originally Posted by saurabh2711 View Post
I wonder what is its use of an identity document issued by indian government when it does not proves your nationality.
Bigger purpose of Aadhar is to weed out duplicates - duplicate PAN cards, duplicate passports, duplicate licenses. Though it is illegal to hold multiple PAN cards, many have in different combination of their first, second & last names. They purchase property in these benami names, evade tax. Goal of aadhar is to cancel all duplicate identities.
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It clearly means any non-Indian can get it too.. Am i correct!!!
Yes, if somebody walks to enrollment center with relevant documents, he will get aadhar card. Those documents are meant to prove somebody belongs to India. There is chance that those documents may be forged. Hence aadhar is not proof of address. It is only proof of identity.
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Why has government wasted over 900 Crores on this scheme?
Budget for this aadhar project is 10,000 crores.
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Old 25th March 2014, 12:24   #460
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

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Originally Posted by msdivy View Post
Bigger purpose of Aadhar is to weed out duplicates - duplicate PAN cards, duplicate passports, duplicate licenses. Though it is illegal to hold multiple PAN cards, many have in different combination of their first, second & last names. They purchase property in these benami names, evade tax. Goal of aadhar is to cancel all duplicate identities..
ROFLMAO.
Our ID cards are duplicate. So lets make another ID card and issue it with pictures of trees and inanimate objects. And lets make somebody 10,000 crores richer too
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Old 25th March 2014, 12:34   #461
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
I have PAN, DIN, voter Id, ration card, passport and driving license. But no adhaar... I mean why the hell do I need one more?
Don't know what DIN is. But PAN: costs money, and is issued to tax assessees (I believe < 5% of India's population). Voter's ID: issued only to eligible voters (for the 2014 general election, about 80 crore people). Ration card: Depends on state-specific policy, but generally carries no benefits for large sections of population so they don't bother. Passport: A travel document, costs money, sections of population are ineligible to get one. Driving License: Requires qualification criteria to be cleared, sections of population are ineligible.

So no, none of these is a universal ID document.

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Originally Posted by msdivy View Post
Bigger purpose of Aadhar is to weed out duplicates - duplicate PAN cards, duplicate passports, duplicate licenses.

Budget for this aadhar project is 10,000 crores.
I read through UIDEA's website many times; nowhere do they make that claim. In fact, they readily acknowledge that their technology is not foolproof and can result in duplicates (the factoid "0.057% false positives" is frequently mentioned in the context of Aadhar).

UIDEA has spent nearly Rs. 4000 crores till December 2013, as per documents on their website. About 800 crores is capex out of this.

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
ROFLMAO.
Our ID cards are duplicate. So lets make another ID card and issue it with pictures of trees and inanimate objects. And lets make somebody 10,000 crores richer too
Indeed. Instead of making the existing processes robust, let us add another poorly thought out "solution in search of a problem" to the mix. Then let us watch the fun.
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Old 25th March 2014, 12:43   #462
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

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Originally Posted by J.Ravi View Post
A few days back, I paid Name:  rupeesymbol.gif
Views: 299
Size:  578 Bytes1,265 for my Indane gas cylinder and got Name:  rupeesymbol.gif
Views: 299
Size:  578 Bytes832.91 credited to my Aadhaar-linked bank account. On 21 Jan 2014, an amount of Name:  rupeesymbol.gif
Views: 299
Size:  578 Bytes435 was found credited to my account without mentioning any details.
Today, I received a refill Indane gas cylinder with the subsidized bill amount of Name:  rupeesymbol.gif
Views: 299
Size:  578 Bytes423.50. I don't know, what will happen to the amountName:  rupeesymbol.gif
Views: 299
Size:  578 Bytes435 that was credited to my bank account after linking my Aadhaar, bank account and Indane account.
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Old 25th March 2014, 12:54   #463
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

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In fact, they readily acknowledge that their technology is not foolproof and can result in duplicates (the factoid "0.057% false positives" is frequently mentioned in the context of Aadhar).
While it is nice to have great idealistic goal, the question whether is it a realistic & an achievable goal. Biometric technology fails aadhar here. There is no proven algorithm which will find duplicates in a population size of billion. Nobody in the world has done research on such huge scale. Biometrics are thought to be unique. But are the unique among billions? Nobody knows. Unless UIDAI has some secret algorithm, they are going to run into thousands, if not millions of false positives. In fact UIDAI is the best capable organization to research on this topic, since they have bio-metric data & budget
Quote:
I read through UIDEA's website many times; nowhere do they make that claim.
UIDAI cannot claim that till their technology for finding duplicates is good enough.
Quote:
UIDEA has spent nearly Rs. 4000 crores till December 2013, as per documents on their website. About 800 crores is capex out of this.
Right, 10,000 crores is to issue card to all people in India. So far they claim they have issued to 50 or 60 crores people, out of 120 crores population.
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Originally Posted by saurabh2711 View Post
+why isn't the Driving Lisence, Passport, PAN card and all other cards (Ex: Samurai's DIN . NO offences meant, Sir.) of the aadhar owner are linked to her/his aadhar.
That is the grand idea - link everything to aadhar number. I think passport, PAN card applications have a field for aadhar number. Note that each of these documents will still serve their purpose (e.g., passport for travel, PAN for tax, DL for driving) but they are mapped to a single identity number.

Last edited by msdivy : 25th March 2014 at 13:06.
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Old 25th March 2014, 12:57   #464
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
But why.
I have Pan card, Passport, driving license. What is the purpose of adhaar then.
If pancard, passport, driving license are not enough, then why will Aadhar be enough? We will need Gaddha too. After that Bandar card
+1 to you, Add voter ID card to it as well.

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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
I have PAN, DIN, voter Id, ration card, passport and driving license. But no adhaar... I mean why the hell do I need one more?
Unless self employed, you forgot to mention the company Id card & access card..

Quote:
Originally Posted by msdivy View Post
Bigger purpose of Aadhar is to weed out duplicates - duplicate PAN cards, duplicate passports, duplicate licenses. Though it is illegal to hold multiple PAN cards, many have in different combination of their first, second & last names. They purchase property in these benami names, evade tax. Goal of aadhar is to cancel all duplicate identities.

Yes, if somebody walks to enrollment center with relevant documents, he will get aadhar card. Those documents are meant to prove somebody belongs to India. There is chance that those documents may be forged. Hence aadhar is not proof of address. It is only proof of identity.
Budget for this aadhar project is 10,000 crores.
That is the only reason I support banking transaction code as suggested by Baba Ramdev. Though it may have many flaws but can be overcome by regular amendments. Then let people have multiple PAN Cards, with Multiple name combination. Whatever they trade in white will be tracked. Even if they have multiple PANs, they will be required to file IT returns eventually. Everyone knows, there is a massive trading in Black money which can be more than the total transactions in white; but our country is anyways surviving on Taxes levied on whatever traded in white

That is the risk, any unintended people can have AADHAR, as proved recently in a sting operation. DO we want these unsolicited persons to be part of India, they can be working against our own country. The govt has been using these for over 6 decades now by relying on these "BOGUS Indian Citizens".

If the figure is 10,00 Crores & the only purpose is to give gas subsidy:
Why can't this amount be given to the gas companies. Though the losses they claim are more, but will be some help.
as the name suggests UNIQUE IDENTITY, If purpose aadhar is to avoid duplicates; why isn't the Driving Lisence, Passport, PAN card and all other cards (Ex: Samurai's DIN . NO offences meant, Sir.) of the aadhar owner are linked to her/his aadhar. This will have one each of all cards mapped to one unique aadhar. Once all are issued aadhars disable all unmapped Identities. PAN Cards specially.
I know this has some problems & drawbacks of its own, but if this is Phase-II of this project, its better not to have it at all.

Last edited by saurabh2711 : 25th March 2014 at 12:59.
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Old 25th March 2014, 13:01   #465
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Originally Posted by binand View Post
Don't know what DIN is. But PAN: costs money, and is issued to tax assessees (I believe < 5% of India's population). Voter's ID: issued only to eligible voters (for the 2014 general election, about 80 crore people). Ration card: Depends on state-specific policy, but generally carries no benefits for large sections of population so they don't bother. Passport: A travel document, costs money, sections of population are ineligible to get one. Driving License: Requires qualification criteria to be cleared, sections of population are ineligible.

So no, none of these is a universal ID document.
Why do I need Universal ID, when I have these multiple IDs? Give adhaar to people who don't have any other ID, and leave me alone.

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Originally Posted by J.Ravi View Post
Today, I received a refill Indane gas cylinder with the subsidized bill amount of Attachment 1223441423.50. I don't know, what will happen to the amountAttachment 1223441435 that was credited to my bank account after linking my Aadhaar, bank account and Indane account.
You don't need to use images for ₹ symbol. Just use the keyboard method.

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Originally Posted by saurabh2711 View Post
Unless self employed, you forgot to mention the company Id card & access card..
These are not government issued.
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