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Old 12th March 2013, 11:51   #91
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

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Originally Posted by Ponmayilal View Post
Don't count on Post Offices. I am not sure they are doing it now. ( This is not the official site. The fficial site to refer to is http://uidai.gov.in/ )

In November, Karnataka Govt. had announced that the second phase of Aadhaar enrollment will start in the first week of December. Even the names of the enrollment agencies was announced.
Post Offices are pretty inconvenient for most. They have huge queues, take hours, and so on. I think camps will be the way.

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Originally Posted by sa_kiran View Post
UID has no legal sanctity, says lawyer-activist - http://cis-india.org/news/the-hindu-...legal-sanctity
Naturally, she is an NPR supporter. even PC who wanted to ban UIDAI in favour of NPR had to eat crow. It will take a simple GO to give it sanctity.

A couple of points - a National Register of Residents is required. Many vested interests will not like one!

At the moment NPR (with well under 1 million) and UIDAI (over 120 million) are the two possibilities. Now with an undocumented population (I suspect 80%+) the first round will be fraught will inconsistencies and errors.

Babus hate Aadhar since it is not under their thumb.
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Old 12th March 2013, 12:15   #92
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

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Originally Posted by srishiva View Post
Ultimately there will be one card.
Why?

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Originally Posted by srishiva View Post
If you are ok with PAN card, ration card, election card, why not accept one card to replace all ?
Why should there be one card to replace all?

What's the problem with the present system of different documents for different needs?
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Old 12th March 2013, 12:15   #93
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
At the moment NPR (with well under 1 million) and UIDAI (over 120 million) are the two possibilities. Now with an undocumented population (I suspect 80%+) the first round will be fraught will inconsistencies and errors.

Babus hate Aadhar since it is not under their thumb.
That is quite a contradiction, already in addition to inconsistencies there are plenty of cases of fakes UIDs, batches of card dumped in garbage cans and anything else that can happen when the government comes up with an open-ended harassment scheme.

The babus are part of the UID program, they love it, besides a lack of budgetary accountability, it serves no purpose. It doesn't serve as proof of citizenship, and with the current pace, it will be completed in about 3 decades.

The database is managed by US vendors who have a legal responsibility to give access to any and all information when requested to do so by US law enforcement, only a compromised agency does deals like this,its like putting up your credit card details on facebook.
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Old 12th March 2013, 12:53   #94
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

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Originally Posted by srishiva View Post
If you are ok with PAN card, ration card, election card, why not accept one card to replace all ? It has nothing to do with Politics.
That's similar to what Dark Lord Sauron wanted, he wanted the one ring to rule them all.

I have ration card, voter card, driver's license card, PAN card and passport. All of them have different addresses, at least last two of them have usable addresses, while first two have mythical addresses, which they refuse to correct.

If I have only one card and that is incorrect, what the hell am I going to do? The urbanites among you may not realise it, but getting anything corrected in rural area is an impossible task. I have wrong name in my water bill and electricity bill. No, they won't correct it because they insist government records can't be tampered with, it a long process to make any change. Recently I got my wife's DL changed from paper to smart card type in Udupi, it took two months since the day of submission. Finally her address is correct, but they have shown her as my son, not wife. She doesn't want to go around for another two months without DL, so she settled for being my son.

So, I don't want one card to rule them all. I need multiple cards so that some of them will have correct info.

Last edited by Samurai : 12th March 2013 at 13:01.
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Old 12th March 2013, 14:21   #95
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
Naturally, she is an NPR supporter. even PC who wanted to ban UIDAI in favour of NPR had to eat crow. It will take a simple GO to give it sanctity.
Alright, she may be an NPR supporter. But, does that change the fact? Also, the govt will have to answer thousands of uncomfortable questions before giving a simple GO. If it had been really a simple GO, they would have pushed it by now.

Also, here are the links for my earlier posts - 9 part series about all the things that are bad with UID.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shifti...ml#post3001044 (Nationwide UID - will it work?)
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shifti...ml#post3001811 (Nationwide UID - will it work?)
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Old 12th March 2013, 14:58   #96
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

I hate Aadhaar because it is the only card that has been mandatory for every citizen. While other cards have a purpose, say passport to fly abroad, PAN for employment/taxes, ration card for ration, DL for driving, etc, this Aadhaar is one stupid card that really serves no purpose except to create more pain for the already fed up citizenry.

Now that there really is no incentive to sign up for this card, the govt. is illegally forcing it onto us by linking it with everything - gas, bank accounts, savings schemes (NSS, NSC), and god knows what else.

And given the horrible state of security and regards to privacy in this country, I expect my information to be freely available - address, birthmark info, iris and all fingers scan, my family tree, etc - for anyone that has access to the system or can afford to bribe one with access.
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Old 12th March 2013, 15:07   #97
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I think in the UK your National Insurance No. and in the US Social Security Number suffice for all internal work. The passport no. is different, so within the country one number is sufficient. May I add that when the Voters ID was proposed, Mr Tambe who spearheaded it suggested that do a proper job and use it as a basis for the national ID project. Of course the Alsatian had no patience for such niceties. He knew trying to broaden the base will kill it.

Once the voter cards were made the contractors (mostly kin of the mighty) had to give the data on floppies, and a lot of corrupted data on bad floppies was handed over.

Quote:
Originally Posted by avira_tk View Post
That is quite a contradiction, already in addition to inconsistencies there are plenty of cases of fakes UIDs, batches of card dumped in garbage cans and anything else that can happen when the government comes up with an open-ended harassment scheme.

The babus are part of the UID program, they love it, besides a lack of budgetary accountability, it serves no purpose. It doesn't serve as proof of citizenship, and with the current pace, it will be completed in about 3 decades.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sa_kiran View Post
Alright, she may be an NPR supporter. But, does that change the fact? Also, the govt will have to answer thousands of uncomfortable questions before giving a simple GO. If it had been really a simple GO, they would have pushed it by now.
Both on the same theme. You conveniently missed my point that when you try and document a population for the first time then these things will happen. There is nothing to stop you from checking UID entries based on doubtful papers (for example those from PP or other 'secure' documents need not be re-examined). We all know it is easier for a Pakistani Terrorist to get a passport than for us.

One has to take a balance between security and convenience. The NPR is a non-starter so except for the UID are there any realistic options. Better try and fix and refine an imperfect system, that throw up your hands and do nothing.

Also, I have a UK National Insurance No. - does it make me a UK citizen? Also, ditto for those with US Social Security Nos.

UID is more a register of residents than nationals. The latter will need more documentation. Even with compulsary registration of births and deaths what is the compliance in the rural areas? So the first generation of documentation will per force be a bit dodgy. Better than the case of one two year old kid languishing in a Bangladesh jail for over a year. since our police took that long to establish that he (and his grandparents) are indeed Indian nationals.

Last edited by mobike008 : 12th March 2013 at 16:34. Reason: Back to Back Posts
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Old 12th March 2013, 15:19   #98
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

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Originally Posted by hellmet View Post
I hate Aadhaar because it is the only card that has been mandatory for every citizen.
It hasn't been made mandatory - I haven't even applied for one.
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Old 12th March 2013, 15:20   #99
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

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I hate Aadhaar because it is the only card that has been mandatory for every citizen.
Presumably if you go to the US you will like to live as an Illegal Alien even though you may not be a citizen!!!
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Old 12th March 2013, 15:25   #100
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
Both on the same theme. You conveniently missed my point that when you try and document a population for the first time then these things will happen. There is nothing to stop you from checking UID entries based on doubtful papers (for example those from PP or other 'secure' documents need not be re-examined). We all know it is easier for a Pakistani Terrorist to get a passport than for us.
I would recommend you to go through the 9-part series on the DANGERS of UID. these articles have been put together after a thorough study. I don't have anything to add beyond what is there in those articles.
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Old 12th March 2013, 16:15   #101
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

Saw the lot again. My comments:

1. All gas. He does not like and so tries to cook reasons for his dislike. More about Big brother watching you.

2. Again ranting. If there is a misfire do not shoot all the lot down. As for officials this lobby does not want any accountability. I think the security is quite good. The idea that they will only verify and not give out information is excellent. Do you know every US citizen has his finger prints on file.

3. Very unhappy that subsidy leakage will be reduced dramatically. All sorts of specious arguments. He also has a grouse that a foreign co may manage the database. Has any misuse of information been found till date. Remember trap door encryption does not allow reverse, i.e. decryption.

4. Again ranting against foreign participation. We all know how secure the NIC site is? Smacks of the swadeshi movement.

5. Nothing of substance.

6. He finds it intrusive. Yes it is, but then so are multiple checks. Also, what about National Identity systems of most countries.

7. Again meta-philosophical arguments. In Utopia yes, in todays world no. I still remember walking on the Tarmac of Lucknow Airport when a plane came. No security, nothing!! Wants a lassiez faire, status quo ante.

8. 'First of all, no expert worth his/her salt would believe that authentication using fingerprints works for a population anywhere close to this size. 'Pray, where except China will you find the numbers. Also, finger prints are today accepted as Gospel Truth, probably wrongly. Why does he not attach all identification / judicial systems. Digital match will only add one more source of authentication or doubt. Maybe we need a DNA match in every case, till doubts are raised on that as well.

9. It is against possible misuse by the state, and nothing about the tool itself. I think the trapdoor authentication (non-reversible encryption and only confirmato0ry role) is a good safety. However, any database is suspect if abused.

Sorry sa_kiran I find the arguments specious and barging on the paranoid. This is a series by someone who has mad up his mind and then wants to argue it that way.

I think we definitely need a registry and UID is a better thought out option than any other so far. The security is adequate and privacy has been taken care of. I will take UID (whether maintained by Indian or foreign firms) any day in preference to something from the nic.

Let us agree to disagree. No point is continuing this fruitless debate.

Last edited by sgiitk : 12th March 2013 at 16:18.
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Old 12th March 2013, 16:22   #102
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

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Originally Posted by carboy View Post
It hasn't been made mandatory - I haven't even applied for one.
I haven't applied either. But, in the future they plan to link gas and bank to it, among other things. What choice will we then have but to fold and apply for one?

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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
Presumably if you go to the US you will like to live as an Illegal Alien even though you may not be a citizen!!!
I have absolutely no idea what you mean.
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Old 12th March 2013, 16:34   #103
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

For all the slating the UID program is getting, one thing that I can vouch for is the sheer efficiency of the application process!

I went in at 9.25 for my 9.30am appointment. Was out with the acknowledgement at 9.35am, as simple as that.

I loved the fact that it was a no fuss approach, that I could see what the data operator was entering in the system and correct his mistakes if any (spelling, address etc), and most of all, how (Believe it or not!) professional the entire experience was!

Irrespective of whether we need the program or not, if the government were able to replicate the same level of professionalism and efficiency in other programs from passports to pan cards, life would be so much more easier!
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Old 12th March 2013, 16:39   #104
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

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Originally Posted by Deep Blue View Post
My UID is still not come after two and half years.
It is almost three months since I complained to DARPG. Absolutely no response. I wrote an email to Nandan Nilekani's email id provided on UIDAI website. Again, no response.
I have given up now. Will enrol again only if that UID becomes mandatory.

Can I put an RTI for not
receiving the card?
Did you check the status online? Use the details on the acknowledgement slip that you received and check status. There is also a link on the UID website which allows you to download a pdf of Aadhaar card.
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Old 12th March 2013, 16:45   #105
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

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Originally Posted by joey645 View Post
I went in at 9.25 for my 9.30am appointment. Was out with the acknowledgement at 9.35am, as simple as that.
Which centre in Bangalore is this ?
I have seen very long queues in Bomannahalli and Koramangala centres.
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