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Old 26th March 2013, 10:38   #121
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

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Originally Posted by NPV View Post
I think this linking of PAN/Passport/other Id to UID does happen in the back end, though you don't fill it in the form per se.
Well, no plan has been shared about about the linking. What is the benefit of linking? Will IT accept UID number instead of PAN? Or will emigration/immigration accept UID number in leiu of passport?
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Specifically, the PAN card is accepted as a POI document, so if you use that when enrolling, they scan the original PAN card that you carry along.
After authentication, when your UID is issued, they will link it against the PAN that you submitted as POI. Similar case with Passport as well.
Not everybody submit their PAN as proof, or their passport or DL. How will they collect these information? I think what is there in the application form *only* goes into database.
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Old 26th March 2013, 11:38   #122
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

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Well, no plan has been shared about about the linking. What is the benefit of linking? Will IT accept UID number instead of PAN? Or will emigration/immigration accept UID number in leiu of passport?
Ultimately all other nos will be subsumed into a single number, UID, i.e., PAN, Voters ID, etc will all go. Passports being applicable for overseas use will stay.
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Old 26th March 2013, 11:55   #123
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

I hope they have started thinking about unifying everything with UID. They need to add the UID as a key to the existing databases and can remove the others later after a few years.

I had to spend close to 3 hours to get this card last Sunday. Everyone was of the opinion that the govt is creating this un-necessary hardship for citizens. If they had not linked the LPG connection to Aadhar (atleast in Karnataka), not everyone would have applied for this card.
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Old 26th March 2013, 11:59   #124
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
Ultimately all other nos will be subsumed into a single number, UID, i.e., PAN, Voters ID, etc will all go.
Why do you think so?

1. Responding to a PIL in the Madras High Court, the Assistant Director General of UIDAI wrote this in a counter-affidavit.
"Enrolment for issue of UID is purely and totally voluntary”

2. A PIL filed in Chandigarh revoked the need for UID in car registration. One of the arguments used was that the application form for the registration of UID cards clearly states that Aadhaar enrollment is free and voluntary and that there were no grounds for the government to be forcing the public to get enrollment by making its requirement in essential public services.

FWIW, I haven't applied for getting my Kaidi number yet and not planning to also.

Last edited by carboy : 26th March 2013 at 12:01.
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Old 26th March 2013, 12:19   #125
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

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Originally Posted by carboy View Post
Why do you think so?

1. Responding to a PIL in the Madras High Court, the Assistant Director General of UIDAI wrote this in a counter-affidavit.
"Enrolment for issue of UID is purely and totally voluntary”

2. A PIL filed in Chandigarh revoked the need for UID in car registration.
And it is not mandatory for provident fund as well.

EPFO says Aadhaar not mandatory for members - http://www.moneylife.in/article/epfo...ers/31166.html

Quote:
The Employees' Provident Fund Organisation (EPFO) has said that looking at the difficulties in enrolment, it has decided not to make the UID (Unique Identification) or Aadhaar number mandatory for its over five crore members. The provident fund body said it would now collect core banking account number of all contributing members as indicated in electronic challan cum return (ECR).
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Old 26th March 2013, 14:26   #126
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

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Originally Posted by carboy View Post
Responding to a PIL in the Madras High Court, the Assistant Director General of UIDAI wrote this in a counter-affidavit.
"Enrolment for issue of UID is purely and totally voluntary”
It will be quite some time before the stage of making it the sole number is reached. Enrolling for the National Insurance No is the UK is also optional. But then you cannot file a tax return, pay the peak rate of income tax, no child benefit for the kids, etc. As it turned out my wife who is a housewife claimed the child benefits on my NI no. into our bank account!

I suspect you will need about 80% penetration before they can think of making it 'mandatory', but then Bharat Sarkar can do anything, howsoever illogical.

Last edited by sgiitk : 26th March 2013 at 14:28.
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Old 26th March 2013, 14:54   #127
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

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Originally Posted by msdivy View Post
Well, no plan has been shared about about the linking. What is the benefit of linking? Will IT accept UID number instead of PAN? Or will emigration/immigration accept UID number in leiu of passport?

Not everybody submit their PAN as proof, or their passport or DL. How will they collect these information? I think what is there in the application form *only* goes into database.
Please re-read my post - what I meant was whatever document is submitted for POI, POA, etc (eg. Passport No./PAN No., etc) is being scanned and saved in the UID database, hence the chance that it may be linked to UID. Even if this is not being done currently, it can be done anytime later since the scanned information is anyways available with the UIDAI (and the information will also be used to authenticate/verify the UID applicant). Once this is done (whenever it actually happens), all other reverse lookups should be possible, that's the power of the data they will have.

Last edited by NPV : 26th March 2013 at 14:57.
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Old 26th March 2013, 20:00   #128
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
I suspect you will need about 80% penetration before they can think of making it 'mandatory', but then Bharat Sarkar can do anything, howsoever illogical.
It's not illogical from a Govt point of view. Any Govt in the world will love the idea of a compulsary National ID.

However, it's illogical & bad for the citizens to want it. Which is why I am wondering why people are jumping through hoops to get one when it's not mandatory. And even jumping around asking to to make it mandatory.

So in the case, it's Bharat Sarkar which is smart & the citizens who are illogical.
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Old 1st April 2013, 12:27   #129
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You mean to say, from application to scan, all done within a week!
I had been to local PO on Saturday, and saw a note on their notice board saying appointments for UID scan is available, only after 01.06.2013
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Old 1st April 2013, 15:44   #130
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

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It's not illogical from a Govt point of view. Any Govt in the world will love the idea of a compulsary National ID.
If it lets me get rid of the KYC, Voters ID, PAN, etc. etc. then I am for it. Just two items - UID / National ID and Passport.
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Old 1st April 2013, 18:47   #131
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

I had my enrollment completed on 2nd March along with my wife and elder daughter. Till 24th March, the status was that data was not uploaded. On 25th March, I was able to get the Aadhaar number as an SMS. Since the SMS is useless, I tried downloading the e-aadhaar letter. After multiple attempts, I was able to download on 27th March. For my wife and kid, the message appearing after 25th March is that Aadhar generation is in process, please check back after few days.

All 3 of us were enrolled in 12 minutes, but only my Aadhar got generated. Strange!
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Old 6th April 2013, 13:22   #132
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My wife and I filled up the UID forms last evening and went across to the Koramangala National Games Village Aadhar counter to register.

The Centre Manager Mr. Mohammed Mansoor was most helpful and gave us our document verification date and enrolment date as today 6th April.

We reached the centre quite early at 830am to queue up.

It was nice because in general the people who came along were regular common citizens of India just like us. There was a sort of camaraderie in the air.

We had carried the originals of our passports for Address, Date of Birth and Identity Proof. I also carried a gas cylinder bill, for linking it to my UID.

At nine thirty am the team came in, got to work, verified the documents etc and did the retina scan, photo and finger print scan, document scan etc.

Both my wife's and my Enrolment acknowledgements were generated and we now have the counter foil copies with us.

We were out of the centre by 11am sharp. Even allowing for queues, delays, the whole process of enrolment etc, I think it was a very efficient usage of time by the Aadhar enrolment team.

They deserve a special mention for this because they did their jobs neatly, efficiently and professionally. We tend to dismiss all these initiatives are rubbish and in general we have no faith in the system.

The UID enrolment experience came as a very pleasant surprise...

Now we shall have to await the actual UID card to be made and despatched to us by post.

Any idea how long it will take? My guesstimate is at least a month's time.
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Old 6th April 2013, 14:47   #133
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

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They deserve a special mention for this because they did their jobs neatly, efficiently and professionally. We tend to dismiss all these initiatives are rubbish and in general we have no faith in the system.
One positive experience cannot wipe away ship load of negative experiences or government incompetence.

I agree, that once in a while they may provide positive experience. Since I moved back to India in 2004, I can recall at least two positive experiences...hmm, no... make it one and a half.

1) My voter id in Bangalore was issued very fast and without any drama. They even asked me to check the address before they printed it.

1.5) The first part of passport renewal process with TCS went very smoothly, I was impressed. But when the application went to police verification, it was the usual drama. But now even the first part is too crazy, very difficult to get appointment.

The rest of the IDs, like DL, PAN, Ration Card, DIN, next voter ID involved lots of song and dance and bribe. They even me issued me with invalid address on ration card and current voter ID, and refused to change it.

BTW, some of us have DIN, the Director Identification Number, and that is a joke. You need it if you are a company director to sign off company document that are filed to the ROC, etc. It is a secure digital ID, stored in a USB key. Supposedly very confidential. Guess who has it? not me. The auditing company in Bangalore has my DIN secure USB key because they have to sign the documents before filing. I don't even know who actually uses it and on what documents. They have hundreds such secure DIN key of their customers. Which genius came up with such an implementation?
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Old 6th April 2013, 16:28   #134
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

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BTW, some of us have DIN, the Director Identification Number, and that is a joke. You need it if you are a company director to sign off company document that are filed to the ROC, etc. It is a secure digital ID, stored in a USB key. Supposedly very confidential. Guess who has it? not me. The auditing company in Bangalore has my DIN secure USB key because they have to sign the documents before filing. I don't even know who actually uses it and on what documents. They have hundreds such secure DIN key of their customers. Which genius came up with such an implementation?
What is a better implementation for the secure digital ID? I don't see a problem with the implementation.

You should not be giving your token to them - they should email any documents to be signed to you, you should sign it and email it back - it should be an easy thing.

Giving away your token is essentially giving them your power of attorney. As per the IT act, I think you lose your power to repudiate the authenticity of the signature.

Last edited by carboy : 6th April 2013 at 16:29.
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Old 6th April 2013, 17:56   #135
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

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You should not be giving your token to them -
You think I wanted to? I was mortified when I was told auditor keeps the DIN USB key. I fought to keep it with me in Manipal, but they said they would need it Bangalore.

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they should email any documents to be signed to you, you should sign it and email it back - it should be an easy thing.
Really? I was told they need the DIN key in their PC when they upload the document to the government website. If I keep the DIN with me, I have to keep travelling to the auditor's office in Bangalore every time they submit a document. Then they told me they have the DIN key for each one of their customer. When I realised how stupidly the whole system was setup, I gave up my DIN key. It is a bloody joke.

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Giving away your token is essentially giving them your power of attorney. As per the IT act, I think you lose your power to repudiate the authenticity of the signature.
Isn't that the fun?

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Originally Posted by carboy View Post
What is a better implementation for the secure digital ID? I don't see a problem with the implementation.
You may not see the problem, but I do. I am familiar with digital encryption and regularly use openssl library in my work. I have designed many secure systems based on RSA public/private encryption.

If the DIN key was supposed to be truly secure, they should have never designed a system where somebody other than the director has to do the document submission. Right now, some clerk in the auditor's office does the document submission and requires the DIN key. Therefore, the director can never keep the so called secure key.

On the other hand, the government expects many obscure documents submitted on a regular basis. No director who has some real work will be able to keep track of these things. Which is why these responsibilities are outsourced to full-time accountants and auditors. Which makes the whole DIN business very meaningless.

Therefore, when I see the government introducing yet another ID, I am very skeptical.
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