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Old 30th September 2010, 08:10   #1
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Dear HR Gurus,

I was in Noida the last week, for an interview with a French based MNC.
The MNC is very popular and is across 70 countries or so.
They are Boiler Mfg. and Commissioning Co. here.

I got selected there and was offered a Job. The profile is a good opportunity for me to grow (no doubt anout that.)

Now comes the hiccup - CTC!
The new job is giving me a "CTC" which is lesser than my current CTC by 5%.
Now they say, that their Package gives me CTC+ Site Allowance (this site allowance neither counted in CTC nor in my job offer letter!!)
But it is like 18K per month !

So total goes up enough to barely justify a job change (around 25% hike).

I am only worried about two things:
1. This site allowance thing: can they chop/cut it as they feel!?
(I did not get any clarity on that from the HR personal there)

2. when I change my job (next), I do not want to be given a raise on only the "CTC" but the whole "CTC+allowance pack".
Is this a accepted practice?

Please help.
I have to revert back to them in 1 day.

The Brand and the experience would be really a level above.
So, I am concerned.

Thanks,

Ace.
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Old 30th September 2010, 09:19   #2
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Why don't you openly raise your concerns with the new employers? Be frank about it and ask them to put everything in writing. Now that they want to hire you, you have the upper hand to negotiate within reasonable terms.

It is important that the "site allowance" factor be mentioned in the offer letter. Get that done.

At the end of the day, if you like the job so much TAKE IT. The experience you would gain and the sheer job satisfaction would more than compensate for the paltry change in your CTC.

PS: I am no HR guru, just my experience from changing a bunch of jobs
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Old 30th September 2010, 09:21   #3
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What is your base location now? Have you compared the Living cost difference also. noida is not cheap to live.

And as per my personal rules, anything above CTC, like variable/bonus/allowance etc should be considered just as icing on cake. So look for the cake only.

But you also need to think of gain from experience you will get if Brand is good. This is true during early years of career, but not for Middle year or experienced years. Where do you stand in terms of experience?

Sometimes its good to go on same salary for good brand, if you do not have a good brand in your profile.

But bottom line is , once you join the company you should not expect a good raise in next 1.5 years. which will be painful if you go on same or less salary
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Old 30th September 2010, 10:01   #4
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@driverace
You have given sufficient data to calculate your old & new CTC. You may want to request the MODS to mask one of the inputs, if didn't want to reveal it.

Coming back to your query:
1) Check with employees of new company if site allowance is consistent (I guess it will be).
2) When you want change in future, you can show your next employer the site allowance deposited in your bank account (I am sure they would know about site allowance).

If you feel the culture is employee friendly and you will be happy, go ahead. Best wishes !!
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Old 30th September 2010, 10:28   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bullinb View Post
Why don't you openly raise your concerns with the new employers? Be frank about it and ask them to put everything in writing. Now that they want to hire you, you have the upper hand to negotiate within reasonable terms.

It is important that the "site allowance" factor be mentioned in the offer letter. Get that done.

At the end of the day, if you like the job so much TAKE IT. The experience you would gain and the sheer job satisfaction would more than compensate for the paltry change in your CTC.

PS: I am no HR guru, just my experience from changing a bunch of jobs
Dear Sir,
thanku thanku for the timely response..
the HR person called me yesterday morn only !! (lik 18 hrs after leaving their office!).
I will talk to them today and ask if that can be put in the letter.
(I had sheepishly asked this at the Salary discussion, where the HR person said cant-do)
Should I re-ask?
I do like the Job offer and experience they are offering- hence the affinity!

Thanks for the input..
Looking forward for more.

Re: P.S.No matter if you are not a HR guru- (you are a Job change guru!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rkbharat View Post
What is your base location now? Have you compared the Living cost difference also. noida is not cheap to live.

And as per my personal rules, anything above CTC, like variable/bonus/allowance etc should be considered just as icing on cake. So look for the cake only.

But you also need to think of gain from experience you will get if Brand is good. This is true during early years of career, but not for Middle year or experienced years. Where do you stand in terms of experience?

Sometimes its good to go on same salary for good brand, if you do not have a good brand in your profile.

But bottom line is , once you join the company you should not expect a good raise in next 1.5 years. which will be painful if you go on same or less salary
Dear Sirji,

The Brand is good,
New brand I am getting is one of the best in the industry!
I have PMed you in detail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
@driverace
You have given sufficient data to calculate your old & new CTC. You may want to request the MODS to mask one of the inputs, if didn't want to reveal it.

Coming back to your query:
1) Check with employees of new company if site allowance is consistent (I guess it will be).
2) When you want change in future, you can show your next employer the site allowance deposited in your bank account (I am sure they would know about site allowance).

If you feel the culture is employee friendly and you will be happy, go ahead. Best wishes !!
Thanku Mr. Diabloo!
my CTC is not a thing I want to hide/ but thats nothing to flaunt about either!
the % was just to help my gurus here to arrive at a conclusion..
I appreciate your concern

your Pt. No.
#1. Employess of new co. hmm, actually in my network I have none.
but I have asked a couple of people in my network to see if they can find the same.
I doubt the reliability/unbiased-ness of information when it is coming second hand!
Still can get an idea.
#2.Saying that point to my dad got me growled at!
But, seriously, Job change gurus, HR profs can shed some light on this please?
Is this "CTC+allowance_alag_se" package / bank entry is viable consideration while giving me a ( CTC+allowance ) x 130% = next job salary, or is it
(CTC) x130% = next job salary.

Apart from this CTC/allowance hullabaloo,
The group I (continue to) say is good. (MNC).

Thanks to my tbhp family for such prompt help!

Care,

Ace,
P.S. Whenever I have some serious problem, after my mentors, I am sure, I can get many different views/solutions from my mentors/friends/peers here at tbhp!
This support really means a lot!
Thank you all.

Note from the Team-BHP Support Team: Post Edited. Smilie usage is restricted to two per post on Team-BHP. Please refrain from using excessive smilies.

Last edited by Rudra Sen : 30th September 2010 at 10:44.
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Old 30th September 2010, 12:05   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by driverace View Post
the HR person called me yesterday morn only !! (lik 18 hrs after leaving their office!).
I will talk to them today and ask if that can be put in the letter.
(I had sheepishly asked this at the Salary discussion, where the HR person said cant-do)
Should I re-ask?
If I were you, I WILL. Reason being that I wouldn't like to regret later. I've undergone similar experience, but not in form of less. The CTC usually would be x% higher; however, the take home would only be few 1000 Rs. An example is like, the CTC would be atleast a Lakh more but if you look at the take home it would only be about Rs 2000 more than what I used to draw from previous company.

Quote:
Originally Posted by driverace View Post
I do like the Job offer and experience they are offering- hence the affinity!
Just remember, the company is not running a charity nor you're doing a social service; you've every rights to question on your salary & the HR IS bound to answer everything to your satisfaction & if they didn't do it, they're evading their job.

Take complete clarification from them, understand the components in the salary & be polite when asking them. Tell them that you're asking because you didn't understand & would like to know details.

Good Luck
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Old 30th September 2010, 12:24   #7
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atleast in IT, these allowances are NOT part of salary negotiations when you hunt for the next job. I am getting an onsite allowance of almost 60% of my CTC, but the same has not been considered by other companies with whom i pursued employment. simple reasoning: even we have onsite opportunities and allowances thereof. we're not promising the same and neither do we consider effective CTC = CTC + allowance.

so your next employer might choose to ignore the allowance component. and you should try to have the allowance mentioned in the offer letter. Yours is an out-and-out on-site profile, i assume?
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Old 30th September 2010, 12:35   #8
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Based on my experience, you can very well forget the site allowance part when you are negotiating the CTC with your next employer in case you join this company. The company just considers the CTC, period!

An OEM company will not have any variable pay but declares bonuses in which case ignore the bonuses and like someone said if you get, will be icings on the cake

A services company will offer variable pay as a part of CTC, say based on your performance and blah blah blah. In this case, even though it forms a part of the CTC, you might take less as a take home but can negotiate in the form of CTC.

So, bottomline is whatever is written down on the CTC clearly is a negotiating card. Benefits, allowances, bonuses...etc differ from company to company and they naturally have different perceptions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aargee View Post

Just remember, the company is not running a charity nor you're doing a social service; you've every rights to question on your salary & the HR IS bound to answer everything to your satisfaction & if they didn't do it, they're evading their job.

Take complete clarification from them, understand the components in the salary & be polite when asking them. Tell them that you're asking because you didn't understand & would like to know details.

Good Luck
Very well said. Always remember that this is a business deal. You are providing a service for which you are getting the wages. So, strike hard, and negotiate hard. Ofcourse culture, future prospects, brand all have some say. So, take a call accordingly.
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Old 30th September 2010, 14:47   #9
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+100 to aargee.

What is NOT on paper is all BS. Companies and esp HR can turn their back in a dime. Ask for a clear clarification and for the rules on the allowance - if it turns out that your allowance depends on X number of factors or days stayed at site etc, you can be at a loss.

Don't get carried away by the brand or the company or the prospects.

Plus alot of companies include such allowances under reimbursements and often make you operate a secondary account for reimbursements (which is best from a tax perspective). When you show your salary slip or bank slip for next job, you will have difficulties.

Whatever is to be done, should be in black n white!

Last edited by phamilyman : 30th September 2010 at 14:49.
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Old 30th September 2010, 16:05   #10
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Driverace, please consider the following:
  • Allowances are just that, allowances. They cannot be considered as a part of your CTC. They are paid under special circumstances. Some examples are:
    • A company paying a shift allowance to people working in the night shifts
    • Per Diem Allowance (when you work onsite)
    • Overtime allowance (even some IT companies pay this)
  • Do not start bothering about your next job before you have started with this job. A wrong thing to do unless you plan to change your jobs in 2-3 months.
  • What is the value of this job change? Increment in remuneration is only one of the aspects. Even more important aspects are the value you can add to yourself by getting into the new job; job satisfaction; freedom to innovate etc. and finally the brand name. When you are at the beginning of your career, these things (learnings or value addition) are more important than the CTC. Very often you get more freedom, responsibility and learning at smaller companies than bigger companies. So consider even that.
  • How long do you plan to stay with your new company? Depending on the job profile it may take upto a few years before you can add any value to your career from the new job. And the salary differences would have disappeared if you are a good performer.
  • Then like the others have said, think about the location. This means not just the cost of living in a particular city. But also the other characteristics that make up a city. They too play a very important role.
Hope these things help you to make a good decision.
-Biju

Last edited by pjbiju : 30th September 2010 at 16:08.
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Old 30th September 2010, 20:45   #11
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Will site allowance be used to incur the expenses (food, travel, stay etc) when you do site visits? In that case, you really cannot consider it for comparing to your existing salary.

In IT, Allowances/ Bonuses should be taken as granted. I have had a bad experience with this. You can only take for granted what has been printed in your CTC structure.
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Old 1st October 2010, 11:00   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aargee View Post
If I were you, I WILL. Reason being that I wouldn't like to regret later. I've undergone similar experience, but not in form of less. The CTC usually would be x% higher; however, the take home would only be few 1000 Rs. An example is like, the CTC would be atleast a Lakh more but if you look at the take home it would only be about Rs 2000 more than what I used to draw from previous company.

Good Luck
Yes Sir,
Will keep that in mind.
Yet to receive call from them, yesterday phone lines were down.

Thanks for the input.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BuRnT RuBbEr View Post
atleast in IT, these allowances are NOT part of salary negotiations when you hunt for the next job. I am getting an onsite allowance of almost 60% of my CTC, but the same has not been considered by other companies with whom i pursued employment. simple reasoning:

so your next employer might choose to ignore the allowance component. and you should try to have the allowance mentioned in the offer letter. Yours is an out-and-out on-site profile, i assume?
Yes, Mine will be an out-and-out site profile (with max 5% in office)
Mine is non-IT Co., So, may be applies a bit differently, (perhaps)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JVH View Post
Based on my experience, you can very well forget the site allowance part when you are negotiating the CTC with your next employer in case you join this company. The company just considers the CTC, period!
Yes, that looks most practical (even though a bit pessimistic, that helps in thinking about the bottomline)

Quote:
Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
+100 to aargee.

What is NOT on paper is all BS. Companies and esp HR can turn their back in a dime.
I have seen that happen too!

Ask for a clear clarification and for the rules on the allowance - if it turns out that your allowance depends on X number of factors or days stayed at site etc, you can be at a loss.

Don't get carried away by the brand or the company or the prospects.
Right, I agree
Plus alot of companies include such allowances under reimbursements and often make you operate a secondary account for reimbursements (which is best from a tax perspective). When you show your salary slip or bank slip for next job, you will have difficulties.

Whatever is to be done, should be in black n white!
I will ask for that for sure, in the next call.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pjbiju View Post
Driverace, please consider the following:
..
.
Thank you for the split up of the course of thinking.
-Biju
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatienceWins View Post
Will site allowance be used to incur the expenses (food, travel, stay etc) when you do site visits? In that case, you really cannot consider it for comparing to your existing salary.

In IT, Allowances/ Bonuses should be taken as granted. I have had a bad experience with this. You can only take for granted what has been printed in your CTC structure.
I have written down the multi-point query, and will ask them one by one on receiving the call.

will let you all know, how things go.
Thanks for the ultra-prompt help!!

God bless (you all with fat increments and double promotions!).

Care,

Ace.
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Old 1st October 2010, 11:15   #13
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Ace
Quick question.
Is your current job also involve site visits/erections/commissioning etc..to a large extent ? If so, dont you get allowance in your current organisation? And did you account for those in your current CTC ?

The boiler industry market players are few and talking about the base in France, i can understand which one and why you are inclined to go there. There are better such organisations with good brand value here itself, like BHEL, Thermax etc..

I wouldnt jump unless i am desperate and unless i am getting into a role different and larger than what i am currently doing. I dont intend to confuse you, but talking purely from experience of working for the past 17 years.
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Old 1st October 2010, 11:54   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkrishnakj View Post
Ace
Quick question.
Is your current job also involve site visits/erections/commissioning etc..to a large extent ? If so, dont you get allowance in your current organisation? And did you account for those in your current CTC ?

The boiler industry market players are few and talking about the base in France, i can understand which one and why you are inclined to go there. There are better such organisations with good brand value here itself, like BHEL, Thermax etc..

I wouldnt jump unless i am desperate and unless i am getting into a role different and larger than what i am currently doing. I dont intend to confuse you, but talking purely from experience of working for the past 17 years.
Thanks.

Currently the any/all allowance i get is calculated in my CTC.
and current job is a site job (full time).

If that's the case, then what do you suggest ahead, Sir.

(No desperation/compulsion as of now, I can still be here for another 6 months, but, I see the learning curve flattening now.. hence the change.)

Ace.
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Old 1st October 2010, 22:37   #15
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Hello All!
We have an Update:
The Manager called me today, and asked.
I told I needed that thing in the offer letter.

Manager said, it can be added in the Salary offer sheet attached to the Offer Letter, and mailed it to me.

The Salary sheet says every thing as it was before,
has a Note: Site Allowance at an average of INR XY K Per month.

So thats the buck on paper now.
So now, I have the papered hike of 30 %.

Should that be enough to seal the deal?

Final Call!

Ace.
Ready for a change.

Last edited by driverace : 1st October 2010 at 22:42. Reason: Stay with me for some more time here!
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