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Old 27th October 2010, 11:23   #31
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Originally Posted by praful View Post
We can't "discipline" them on the road. That's just not going to work. The only way possible is have change in our licensing system and education relating to road rules & manners. Only once it comes from such a level will we be able to see a change on the road.

For now I guess we just need to build up our patience!
Very very valid point & this deserves +1000000...; this is what I'm trying to say all over. If implemented today with strictes measures, then it would take about 2 generation to see what west is experiencing now. Driver education is the right word. I would never mind even paying 5-10% additional tax to Govt for implementing this, but constructively.

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Originally Posted by GordonGekko View Post
Being practical and rational is what its all about.
Practically speaking it is possible to achieve 200 Kmph on US roads. But would that be possible?

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Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
But so long as they are in force, they should be obeyed. I consider our income tax laws to be unreasonable, can I stop paying tax?
Well said Sir
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Old 27th October 2010, 11:26   #32
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Originally Posted by COUGAR View Post
So even if the speed limit is 70 or mebbe 80kph, the "uncle drivers" must still vacate the right most lane so that the speed demons can break the rules and drive at a 100? I mean come on! I cant believe someone actually said that!

Reckless drivers are just that: reckless! People should stop using uncles or aunties as an excuse for their reckless driving.
Roy,

I would appreciate if you were not so hung up on the uncle drivers word. It was a quote of aargee only & I can see you have an issue with that word. Anyways lets drop it and move on. The right word is lane hogs.

Coming back - The speed limit on the expressway is 90 kph. So anyone doing 90-100 kph is not really out of line practically.

Let me recap in a more neutral tone so that we can all discuss in a more calm manner:
The Gurgaon expressway has FOUR lanes, with the speed limit at 90. There are a multitude of lane hogs any given day who will crawl in the rightmost lane at 60-70 kph. I have no issues with guys in that lane doing 80 and above. Anyone doing 60-70 in that lane (or even lesser) forces others to change lanes at speeds in the vicinity of 90-100 kph which makes the road unsafer. How should one deal with such people?

PS: It does not really apply for two lane roads. For roads with lesser speed limits, use your judgement & reduce the numbers proportionately - the idea is under discussion.
PPS: I would be grateful if we can all not be rather focused on speeds but on the concept. Please stay on topic.
PPPS: Roy - Let's not label people as speed demons or anything. Those are practical daily speeds on the expressway. Haven't even you done similar: Almost getting toppled while taking a turn at 90 kph on the way to Jawhar? Aren't you a speed demon too? Welcome to the club

Last edited by phamilyman : 27th October 2010 at 11:37.
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Old 27th October 2010, 11:27   #33
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Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
I consider our income tax laws to be unreasonable, can I stop paying tax?
I wish I could .

I live and work on the "famous" IT Highway in Chennai. It's three lanes on each side and every vehicle on the road travels only on the right most lane. So you have your bicycle guy competing with the bike guy who wants to show his power to the car guy who in turn is trying to squeeze his way between the bus guys who are trying to block out the lorry guys and so on. Well I've adjusted likewise. I don't get out at peak times and just take the road as it comes.

Yeah but there are people on the road who make life miserable, the ones spoken of in the earlier threads. It's frustrating but it's either that or do some offroading on the left most lane which is dumped with construction material or go over cattle which have made the middle lane their home.

Well most people do not have a 4 wheel drive and they definitely do not want the blood of cattle on their hands - so guess where they travel!!
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Old 27th October 2010, 11:32   #34
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Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
May be they are, may be not. But so long as they are in force, they should be obeyed. I consider our income tax laws to be unreasonable, can I stop paying tax?

Tomorrow if I buy a Ferrari can I do 300 KPH on the NH 45 because my machine has the capability and I am comfortable with it?
Tax evasion is a whole different ball game. In the eyes of the govt, it is the worst possible crime. You could be speeding at 200 and no one would care...but if they think you have an irregularity in your return...well then you've had it.

As for the second part, I would have to say yes, keeping the following points in mind;
1/Absolutely plain road with no bumps/potholes.
2/Road has no cuts in where people/animals/other traffic can slip in.
3/Minimal/zero traffic on road
4/Road should not be wet.

Again, i am in no way encouraging any one, simply stating the facts in black and white.
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Old 27th October 2010, 11:51   #35
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Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
Coming back - The speed limit on the expressway is 90 kph. So anyone doing 90-100 kph is not really out of line practically.
I agree with you. If the speed limit is 90 KPH, +/- 10 KPH is not a problem. My view is nobody should hog the right most lane, even above these speeds. And neither should someone drive well below the speed limit on these roads, unless there is a vaild reason or traffic does not permit it. But the tenor of some posts regarding people doing a "sedate" 80 KPH, irrespective of the lane occupied, was what elicited some of the replies here!


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Originally Posted by GordonGekko View Post
Tax evasion is a whole different ball game. In the eyes of the govt, it is the worst possible crime. You could be speeding at 200 and no one would care...but if they think you have an irregularity in your return...well then you've had it.
Sigh! In other words, we as Indians, would follow a rule only if there is a severe punishment for non-compliance, not otherwise! We don't have the discipline of following a rule out of respect for it.

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Originally Posted by GordonGekko View Post
As for the second part, I would have to say yes, keeping the following points in mind;
1/Absolutely plain road with no bumps/potholes.
2/Road has no cuts in where people/animals/other traffic can slip in.
3/Minimal/zero traffic on road
4/Road should not be wet.

Again, i am in no way encouraging any one, simply stating the facts in black and white.
Will your answer be the same even if the question was about driving on a US highway? If not, why?

Last edited by Gansan : 27th October 2010 at 11:56.
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Old 27th October 2010, 11:57   #36
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Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
I agree with you. If the speed limit is 90 KPH, +/- 10 KPH is not a problem. My view is nobody should hog the right most lane, even above these speeds. But the tenor of some posts regarding people doing a "sedate" 80 KPH, irrespective of the lane occupied, was what elicited some of the replies here!

Sigh! In other words, we as Indians, would follow a rule only if there is a severe punishment for non-compliance, not otherwise! We don't have the discipline of following a rule out of respect for it.

Will your answer be the same even if the question was about driving on a US highway? If not, why?
More reason to do it in the US, because roads are better and it is not uncommon to find long and straight stretches of road on highways.
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Old 27th October 2010, 12:04   #37
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Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
My view is nobody should hog the right most lane, even above these speeds. And neither should someone drive well below the speed limit on these roads, unless there is a vaild reason or traffic does not permit it.
This is an ideal situation you're talking about

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Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
Sigh! In other words, we as Indians, would follow a rule only if there is a severe punishment for non-compliance, not otherwise! We don't have the discipline of following a rule out of respect for it.
Well Sir, I've seen this even in US people drive at 100mph on a 80 mph zone where the variance accepted is +/- 5mph. Why alone blame us? This is natural human tendency

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Originally Posted by GordonGekko View Post
More reason to do it in the US, because roads are better and it is not uncommon to find long and straight stretches of road on highways.
+1
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Old 27th October 2010, 12:12   #38
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Let me be clear about speed limits.
Speed limit on expressway is 90kmph
On NH1 is 90kmph too,
Yet I see so many people doing 60-70 in the right most lane.
I have stopped trying to bully them.
I just pass from the left.
However, many times I see them going parallel to slow moving traffic.
So both lanes are blocked by two blokes doing 60-70kmph

In that case I honk and honk, and flash the lights. Having a 2 ton monster helps in way clearing.

That said, Even when I am at 90kmph I always try not to drive in the right lane if possible.
From what I have learnt, right lane is for overtaking, not cruising.

If does not matter whether you care cruising at 90 or 190, if you are not overtaking anyone, you do not have any business to stay in right lane if there is a faster vehicle behind you.

Just because the faster 150kmph driver is braking rules and driving recklessly, it does not give you the right to be a jerk and block the "overtaking lane".

Many times on my highway trips when I am at 90kmph, I have seen more powerful vehicles behind me doing much faster speeds, and I always make a conscious effort to quickly fall back to middle lane so that that guy does not have to use his brakes.

This is called sensible driving. And if everybody followed that, highway trips would require much less braking, and everyone will get better FE and do better time.
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Old 27th October 2010, 12:43   #39
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Let me be clear...will get better FE and do better time.
Tanvir - That's your own derivation & have learned through your experience in driving several 1000's Kms & have concluded that this is the best approach. I don't deny that.

My question would be, is it written in law (or even in west) that the right most lane (and left most in west for RHS drive) is reserved for overtaking only? I don't think so.

So unless its in law, why would one want to follow? I've so many instances where I've been on right most lane in India & observed someone driving faster than I do. I've promptly turned my turnlights to state I'm moving towards left to yield for him. Trust me, unless that guy is a moron, he wouldn't even blink, forget about honking. Atleast this is the same case even in the west. Again, this is also not documented, however practiced & understood by most people all over world.

What's wrong on switching lanes & driving? I don't understand? Why should I expect the entire world to make my driving easier? The truckers occupying 2 lanes one at 60 Kmph & other at 62 Kmph, well I agree is moronic deed, but otherwise?

Last edited by aargee : 27th October 2010 at 12:47.
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Old 27th October 2010, 12:49   #40
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I am not sure about Indian Law, but in the west, of a vehicle comes behind you, and the middle lane is empty, you are supposed to clear the way.
Infact, people doing 65mph in 65mph zone and blocking the left lane are often cited. However big fines are rarely given, and usually they are left of with a warning.
I once had the experience as a passenger in a new drivers car, who was driving at 65mph in the leftmost(fastest) lane.
A cop car pulled up behind him an ordered him to vacate the lane.

In India MV act is pretty archaic.
That said, many people say its okay for people to drive at 70 in the right lane even if speed limit is 90.

So who decides 70 is okay.
Why not 40kmph.
By that logic a person in the right lane doing 40kmph parallel to a 40kmph truck and blocking the entire road is also within the law, and the entire traffic should drive at 40 until he decides to move out on his own will.
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Old 27th October 2010, 13:04   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aargee View Post
What's wrong on switching lanes & driving? I don't understand? Why should I expect the entire world to make my driving easier? The truckers occupying 2 lanes one at 60 Kmph & other at 62 Kmph, well I agree is moronic deed, but otherwise?
Aargee, I don't think you're getting the pictures that Tanveer & Hitanshu are painting

Not that I blame you for it, you actually have to see NCR traffic indiscipline to believe it. Allow me to paint another picture. I will, once again, use the Delhi-Gurgaon expressway model.

Time: 7.30 am, proceeding from Dhaula Kuan to the Toll gate on the 4 lane expressway. As per the Delhi Traffic Police notification & pictures published a few months ago, Heavy Vehicles & Three wheelers are to use the extreme left lane (if 2 laned) or the Left & middle (if 3 or more laned). Further, two wheelers are not allowed on the Expressway.

Now, here's the frustration I face EVERY SINGLE DAY -
  • Extreme Left lane - Empty but not fully so because a few trucks are half in the extreme left lane & half in the left centre lane. Few cars trying to get past by weaving left & right, getting held up every now & then by a few motorcyclists who are meandering along!
  • Centre Left Lane - Half taken up by above, half taken up by DTC & Haryana Roadways & Chartered Buses who are trying to overtake these trucks. And a few motorcyclists who are in their own world, oblivious to the horns....
  • Centre Right Lane - Taken up by above buses & some three wheelers () carrying goods & puttering along at 35-40 kmph
  • Extreme Right Lane - Taken up by the rest of the vehicles, average speed around 60 kmph. Why? Because, somewhere out at the front of this lane is a moron of a CNG powered Maruti Omni or one of the types mentioned by Hitanshu & Tanveer proceeding at a (for them) FURIOUS pace!!!
Don't believe me? Come take a look mate. Where do guys like us (who would like to stick to the Expressway speed limits) go?

Last edited by suman : 27th October 2010 at 13:06.
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Old 27th October 2010, 13:45   #42
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Completely agree with Suman and Tsk. This phenomenon is not restricted to the Delhi-Gurgaon expressway alone. It's not uncommon to see two trucks/buses playing out a slow drag race on several highways. I think the rule of thumb should be; if you are on the highway and find that there are vehicles in all the lanes adjacent to you, either pass them and switch lanes or fall back.
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Old 27th October 2010, 14:13   #43
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Note from the Team-BHP Support Staff : Post edited. Please do not post your driving experiences which qualify as rash/careless/irresponsible driving behavior.

Last edited by n_aditya : 27th October 2010 at 16:21.
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Old 27th October 2010, 14:19   #44
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Infact, people doing 65mph in 65mph zone and blocking the left lane are often cited. However big fines are rarely given, and usually they are left of with a warning.
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
I once had the experience as a passenger in a new drivers car, who was driving at 65mph in the leftmost(fastest) lane.
A cop car pulled up behind him an ordered him to vacate the lane.
Boy!!! are you sure on this? If I were the driver, I would've challenged the cop (hehe, I don't dare that in India). If the speed limit is 65 mph & what's wrong in driving at 65-70 mph on the left most lane? As long as I keep the minimum speed limit, why should the cop bother me? Getting my point?

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
In India MV act is pretty archaic.
Worst among all the 3rd world countries!!!

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
By that logic...until he decides to move out on his own will.
Tell me something, isn't this we're witnessing in this entire country?

But Suman, this is the cancer in this entire country; how do you think NCR will be an exception or will be better? I'm getting the picture what you guys are saying & that's the reason I keep saying, education is first & enforcement must be strict. Either we've to live with this or just be one among them.

Trust me, every morning I see such dumbers like this in Chennai, I feel like thrashing, but then, these morons will never learn. How about someone blocking your way on a 4 lane road that too who comes in an opposite side & argues that he has the right of way? Anyway this is an OT.

The point is, these morons will never learn & the cops will not learn to do their job, until then, this thread keeps growing!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by suman
Don't believe me? Come take a look mate. Where do guys like us (who would like to stick to the Expressway speed limits) go?
I wouldn't believe only if you said everyone follows lane discipline

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Originally Posted by anilisanil
and slowed down to 50, he slowed down, I slowed to down to 40 expecting him to switch the lane, but he was still stuck!
Perfectly qualified to post here - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/collec...u-spot-em.html

Last edited by aargee : 27th October 2010 at 14:38.
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Old 27th October 2010, 14:23   #45
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Originally Posted by aargee View Post
Boy!!! are you sure on this? If I were the driver, I would've challenged the cop (hehe, I don't dare that in India). If the speed limit is 65 mph & what's wrong in driving at 65-70 mph on the right most lane? As long as I keep the minimum speed limit, why should the cop bother me? Getting my point?
When I gave the california drivers license written test.
There was a question
Q. When merging on the highway, what should be your speed
1. Below speed limit
2. Above speed limit
3. Speed limit
4. As fast as traffic on highway

The correct answer was number 4

This is how laws are defined there w.r.t speed.
Going above the speed limit will get you pulled over, but only if you are doing it faster than others.

That said, the right lane is the overtaking lane. You are supposed to give way if you are going in right lane.
You are not a cop, You do not have the right to slow down somebody not obeying the law.
you should obey the law which says "Blocking the right lane is obstruction of traffic"
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