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Old 23rd November 2010, 13:38   #16
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Originally Posted by aargee View Post

+1; we've our neighbour's son put up into ICSE school, who speaks only (little of butler) English (he's in 3rd grade) & every evening around 5:30 we hear a siren, nothing but his loud cry, and his fight with his Mother, obviously for studies. He has a huge, 3-4 times larger than my laptop bag to carry books & mountain of homework everyday!!!
I disagree, pls check if the kid is @ ICSE. the ICSE schools in Chennai are some of the best in business and Kids I have met out of these schools are the most well mannered and have an impeccable fluency in english.

I would not pass a judgement based on 1 single kind.

PS : My daughter goes to one of these schools.
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Old 23rd November 2010, 13:55   #17
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@2theMax - What're you disagreeing with? The spoken English? Well, he's a kid of 3rd standard & I cannot expect him to speak Harvard English or without any grammatical mistake. I agree, I exagerrated a little by calling butler English.

Since your Daughter is in one of ICSE schools, can you share the homework load, syllabus complexity compared to CBSE & the kind of schooling life?
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Old 23rd November 2010, 14:45   #18
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Am at crossroads for my kids education. So have specific doubts

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
I studied in ICSE till class 7th(YPS Patiala),
In class 8th I shifted to CBSE due to city change, and I was pretty upset, because the whole line of education changed to pretty intense and boring.
Intense and boring!! can you elaborate more.

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That said, I found ICSE syllabus stimulating to the mind, while CBSE is more about cramming. But thats my personal opinion.
Can you again elaborate on the stimulating part. Curious on this

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
It also depends on school to school and not all schools are same.
So look at not just ICSE/CBSE but also what kind of environment the school offers.

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Those looking at state boards, a word of caution. When we were in college, lots of companies put min 75% marks in class 12th as requirement. This was a breeze for us CBSE guys, but for many state board guys, the toppers were in above 75% category.

So never put your kids in a board where topper gets max 80-85%.
It will cause them trouble later.
In Tamilnadu its otherway.. State board guys score 99+ % marks

I hear these opinion... requesting ICSE educated guys to throw in their views

(*) ICSE students focus more of theatrical, artistical skills than science
(*) In competitive exams they suffer disadvantage as they are not subjected to competitive exams
(*) If someone wants their kids to have engineering abilities (if dreaming of IIT) then ICSE is not the correct choice


Also if someone can give prominent people who studied through ICSE, that would also be helpful.
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Old 23rd November 2010, 14:45   #19
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Just read through the interesting discussion. I'm a 10th class student myself, going for ICSE Boards this academic session.

I studied in CBSE affiliated schools till the end of class 8. After shifting to WB, I've been studying in ICSE for two years now. What I'll be writing below is MY own experience.

First things first, ICSE has a total of 11 subjects, CBSE has just 5.(This may be irrelevant here since no one can predict what the future condition will be when your kid reaches classes 8-9).

I've been a topper even since nursery. In my previous school(CBSE), I used to start preparing for the terminal exams about 10-15 days before them and still used to score >98% and the top rank among 5 sections with about 35 students each. Was I happy? You bet.

Here in ICSE, I followed the same routine and my percentages dropped to below 90 %. I was like when the results for the first term came out. Resolved to work harder for the next term and ever since then, I have to keep scanning the calender for exams and start preparing for them atleast 1.5 months in advance. So, is the load high? Hell yes it is.

English in ICSE is top notch. In CBSE, all that was required for 97 marks in English was a single reading of the easy as anything text. Here in ICSE, I felt the level of English to be comparatively higher, and for the first time in my life, I was forced to study English beforehand,i.e. not leave it for the last day. But I guess that's going to help me in the future. So no grudges with the tougher English.

One more point is that CBSE schools host a lot of competetive exams like NSO NCO IMO NSTSE etc. I loved taking part in them exams. (Always used to get sub 150 AIR and the prizes and respect I got was ). When my father enquired about such exams being hosted in this ICSE school, the answer he received was that the ICSE curriculum is so intense that there's no time or need for such exams. Hmph.

All of these are my personal experiences. People may disagree. Will be sharing more points when I remember them.

All in all, the course in ICSE is much more intense than CBSE, atleast for higher classes. But I think that's going to help me in higher studies.

Hope I helped you in the tough decision rather than confuse you(which I think I have).

Sorry for the long post.
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Old 23rd November 2010, 15:10   #20
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Disclaimer: This my perspective. It is not to hurt anyone.

My father is a teacher, my sisters are teachers in both ICSE schools and state syllabus schools
Some pointers are
1. CBSE is far better than ICSE and state syllabus.
( Why so , in details little later)
2. In AP state syllabus is better esp Maths compared to both CBSE and ICSE

Why CBSE is better

- It is default for all KV's and other PSU schools.

- It has prescribed books published by NCERT written by professors in respective fields

- As it is default for KV's and other PSU schools it is under no obligation to private schools

- The freedom offered to private schools under CBSE is less compared to ICSE.

- Off late even CBSE is budging under pressure from Private school lobbies allowed them to choose text books of their choice upto 8th standard. But they have follow compulsorily NCERT books from 9th standard onwards

ICSE

- It gives only syllabus. No prescribed books. So school management has the freedom to choose publisher for text books

- It does not have the kind of infrastructure like CBSE to conduct inspections etc on schools to check whether they are following its orders

- Two bodies (CBSE & ICSE) for the same work under central govt. Duplicity. with recent emphasis on reducing govt expenditure pressure is always on ICSE to justify its presence.
(actually education is state govt subject under division of subjects as per constitution and central govt is not supposed to be in this filed)

It has to show this many schools are affiliated to us(ICSE) etc. whereas CBSE did not have to do it. Private schools know this. Hence ICSE is more prone to pressure tactics from private schools (this is first hand info as my sisters work in these schools)

As we all know these days education is business. we hardly find any one with noble motives running schools these days except some old timers

I hope this will be of use guys
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Old 23rd November 2010, 15:28   #21
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Off late even CBSE is budging under pressure from Private school lobbies allowed them to choose text books of their choice upto 8th standard. But they have follow compulsorily NCERT books from 9th standard onwards
Whoa!!! This is no good sign, I was more biased towards CBSE, but the above point is no good sign for future. I guess ICSE is better, but the Govt pressuring ICSE to justify its presence is again a no good sign either.

All said, things were much better in the past, atleast that's the impression I get.
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Old 23rd November 2010, 16:02   #22
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- Off late even CBSE is budging under pressure from Private school lobbies allowed them to choose text books of their choice upto 8th standard. But they have follow compulsorily NCERT books from 9th standard onwards
Do you have first hand experience with the quality of NCERT books? I studied in KV all my life and the teachers themselves asked us to follow other textbooks/guides (esp after 9th) because they felt the books were inadequate. I don't even remember opening the original NCERT maths textbooks in class 11th and 12th. This was 10 years ago and I don't know what the present condition is.
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Old 23rd November 2010, 16:02   #23
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Whoa!!! This is no good sign, I was more biased towards CBSE, but the above point is no good sign for future. I guess ICSE is better, but the Govt pressuring ICSE to justify its presence is again a no good sign either.

All said, things were much better in the past, atleast that's the impression I get.
do the authors names (text books) mentioned in ICSE school books?

Most of the cases big NO.

Big schools with huge student strength bargain with publishers of the text books every year. if the terms are not favorable to them they shift to another publishers. This was not possible with CBSE syllabus.

So we do not know who wrote the text book which the kids are following.

this may also be the reason for the difference between two ICSE schools as they may be following books form different publishers.

My sister was evaluator for ICSE 10th standard for Hindi. I know what the guidelines ICSE gave to them before evaluation. Because of that i have decided to go only for CBSE for my kid
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Old 23rd November 2010, 16:10   #24
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Looks like too many varied views floating around. I've decided to stick to the state board. Basically I'd like to focus on the school rather than the curriculum. There's no proven link between success and curriculum.
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Old 23rd November 2010, 16:40   #25
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Looks like too many varied views floating around. I've decided to stick to the state board. Basically I'd like to focus on the school rather than the curriculum. There's no proven link between success and curriculum.
Good choice, going with a school In the end school matters most. However, make sure your state board has high 90% marks for many people. If your state board topper is 80%, then getting 75% will be tough, and it may cause problems later in life.
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Old 23rd November 2010, 16:43   #26
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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
what about IB? as in International Baccalaureate and IGSCE as in International General Certificate of Secondary Education?
International Baccalaureate

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Originally Posted by KumaravelS View Post
Also if someone can give prominent people who studied through ICSE, that would also be helpful.
Prominent people in India who have had a ICSE schooling might only be a few urban people like Ratan Tata (part Campion and part Cathedral) or Kumaramagalam Birla etc...It should not determine what school your child goes to.

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My sister was evaluator for ICSE 10th standard for Hindi. I know what the guidelines ICSE gave to them before evaluation.
So what are these guidelines? Is Hindi at ICSE so bad?

from...
How To Choose Between ICSE And CBSE Curriculums | Survivor's Guide to India
I would recommend to focus more on the school than on the curriculum. At the end of the day, it doesn’t really matter what curriculum your child studies in. All curriculums will teach math, science, history, geography, etc.. However, what kind of teachers are there, what is the student-teacher ratio, what are the homework and examination policies….will determine the stress level your child goes through.
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Old 23rd November 2010, 17:51   #27
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I studied in an ICSE affliated school from 1st to 10th std. In ICSE syllabus, the stress is more on understanding that learning by heart (or mugging up). The kids are trained to understand what they are reading. This kind education has helped me a lot in life (competitive exams and career too).

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Can you again elaborate on the stimulating part. Curious on this
From my exp, in ICSE kids are made to understand what they are reading mostly by examples. That is more stimulating than mugging up whats in the book.

One point to note: ICSE board sets some guidelines to the schools. That doesnt mean that all schools follow them. Please do a thorough research of the school before getting an admission for your kid. Whatever the syllabus, if the school doesnt pay attention to the kid's needs, it is not worth going for that school.

-Pallavi
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Old 23rd November 2010, 20:16   #28
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Is there any syllabus that doesn't give out weekly projects to parents? Damn, I don't recall my parents doing a single school project. While we get to do one every week.
wow, so along with your son, you are getting your education for free

to the original OP, I think Indian schools are much competitive than what I studied back then or what my kids are going thru now, so the only input I can give is if you want all round development, do not force repetitive coursework. Form what I am hearing, ICSE seems to be focuseed on real learning. But I would suggest taking a school with lower academic rigor, provided you can give your time to supplement it with quality learning.

However, the bitter fact is in India success is earned and proved only via scores and degrees, not knowledge. So yes, you should keep that point in mind too.

Following are some blogs I wrote on comparing education systems.

Vivek's weblog: Did maths destroy our education?
Vivek's weblog: Comparing education systems again.
Vivek's weblog: Maths, Science and our children.

EDIT: I can't rememeber where, but I remember seeing a study that said kids who spent time playing with toys (as simple as a banging and bending a stick) had a much better mental development than a child who spent time studying, say memorizing multiplication table. except that the second kid could multiply faster.

Last edited by vivekiny2k : 23rd November 2010 at 20:21.
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Old 24th November 2010, 09:32   #29
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I studied in KV all my life and the teachers themselves asked us to follow other textbooks/guides (esp after 9th) because they felt the books were inadequate.
I agree with Jaguar; That was the case even 16 years ago, we used guides & they'd adequate examples & teachers themselves suggested going through several books & our library had them. BTW, my schooling was from defense factory school.

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do the authors names (text books) mentioned in ICSE school books? Most of the cases big NO.
Is it? But I faintly remember some author names (we made fun too) mentioned in our CBSE text books.

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Originally Posted by rkg View Post
This was not possible with CBSE syllabus.
True; agreed.

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In ICSE syllabus, the stress is more on understanding that learning by heart (or mugging up).
That was the same case with CBSE too; atleast, I was weak in remembering things word by word, so I understood the concept & write-up in my own words. If this wasn't allowed, I would've not completed schooling on time. Trust me, this was the same case since my 3rd or 4th grade.

What I didn't like in CBSE in the past was...
The text books were not small nor large (some non-standard size), but the words printed were small, no pics, every sentence has depth of meaning & no repeatation. So one HAS TO go through word by word, line by line to understand the real meaning.

What I do not like in CBSE now is...
The text books are big sizeable ones with large printed letters & big pictures; more pictures. Not sure if one still has to understand word by word, line by line meaning. Few years ago, when my cousin was in primary education, the Hindi syllabus still remained the same (Madan mela chal)

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The kids are trained to understand what they are reading. This kind education has helped me a lot in life (competitive exams and career too).
Well, our school didn't have this kind of trainings, however, our teachers at higher secondary were MPhil, M.Ed. Primary school teacher were MA.M.Ed. What I hear now is, K.V employs most temporary staffs & the standard has come down. Not sure though.

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From my exp, in ICSE kids are made to understand what they are reading mostly by examples. That is more stimulating than mugging up whats in the book.
Yes, I agree with this point on ICSE.

Last evening I was talking about this thread to Wifey & she said one punching point...
When my Wifey was in college 2nd year, she & an 8th std ICSE student were on same syllabus in Chemistry

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if the school doesnt pay attention to the kid's needs, it is not worth going for that school.
+1000000...
I'd say, same point applies to CBSE or even state; this was the most important criteria when we were thinking about the school. The school should teach student more on discipline & obedience rather than anything else.

Last edited by aargee : 24th November 2010 at 09:33.
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Old 25th November 2010, 03:03   #30
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Do you have first hand experience with the quality of NCERT books? I studied in KV all my life and the teachers themselves asked us to follow other textbooks/guides (esp after 9th) because they felt the books were inadequate. I don't even remember opening the original NCERT maths textbooks in class 11th and 12th. This was 10 years ago and I don't know what the present condition is.
NCERT books are the best in the business. Foreign publishers are the only competition. I'm in class 12 and for the past two years, NCERT has been our Holy Bible.

One negative may be that things are not explained in detail in these books. Everything is short and concise. But IMO, it helps you to sharpen your, as CBSE says, Higher Order Thinking Skills.
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