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Old 10th September 2014, 16:39   #1696
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Default Re: The Credit Card Thread

@noopster; I have chosen 100% auto debit on StanC so no hassles about payment.
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Old 10th September 2014, 19:45   #1697
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Please suggest good cashback credit cards with low (if possible free lifetime) annual fees. The "accumulating-reward-points, redeem for Rs 75 + service tax method" is so outdated and not value for money. Hence looking for good cash back cards.
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Old 10th September 2014, 21:25   #1698
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Originally Posted by noopster View Post
- Never use your credit card online.

- When you travel abroad, using credit card to pay for tickets
I generally agree with most of what you say, except these two. I don't understand why people have this problem ("don't use cards online!") when some of the biggest card compromises of recent past have been at merchant POS locations (Target, TJX etc.). With today's IT systems, it does not matter what customer touchpoint is used - the processing software is usually the same.

As for the second point - the foreign currency markup that banks charge will be quite a big amount by the time you return to India. It is always better to take one of the pre-paid travel cards offered by the banks instead of using one's credit card.
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Old 11th September 2014, 17:39   #1699
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Originally Posted by binand View Post
I don't understand why people have this problem ("don't use cards online!") when some of the biggest card compromises of recent past have been at merchant POS locations (Target, TJX etc.). With today's IT systems, it does not matter what customer touchpoint is used - the processing software is usually the same.
True, but however careful you are, you never truly know whether the information you enter on an online store website will be secure, do you? Especially for the dodgy ones. I guess Amazon and the like should be sufficiently reliable.
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As for the second point - the foreign currency markup that banks charge will be quite a big amount by the time you return to India. It is always better to take one of the pre-paid travel cards offered by the banks instead of using one's credit card.
How much is it- 3%? Travel cards are no better because they charge transaction fees and withdrawal fees that your regular credit/debit card may not incur. I have used my personal card abroad and there is no alternative in terms of convenience. Of course you do have a valid point, though.
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Old 11th September 2014, 19:07   #1700
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Default Re: The Credit Card Thread

Got a call from American Express...

Here's the deal for offering a new American Express credit card - Take the new offer, spend about 48000 a year (4K a month) & get 15% cash back offer in form of American Express debit card.

So end of 1st year, I get Rs 7500 in a debit card that I can use for shopping etc.

I'm tempted to opt for it, despite its American Express & they having reputably lower tieup with merchant establishments in India.

Any expert opinion/cautions/suggestions please?
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Old 11th September 2014, 19:12   #1701
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Originally Posted by aargee View Post
Got a call from American Express...

Here's the deal for offering a new American Express credit card - Take the new offer, spend about 48000 a year (4K a month) & get 15% cash back offer in form of American Express debit card.

...
15% cash back sounds too good to be true. Check annual fees, terms and conditions and fine prints.
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Old 11th September 2014, 20:40   #1702
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Default Re: The Credit Card Thread

Sounds too good but if the fine print does not read anything to the contrary, why not? I have been using their charge card and it is accepted at say 50-60% of the places including all major brand name establishments and there's a 2.5% waiver agreement in place with HP fuel stations. Their customer service team is easily the best, consistently and the IVR is not time consuming at all like most others.

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Originally Posted by aargee View Post
Got a call from American Express...

Here's the deal for offering a new American Express credit card - Take the new offer, spend about 48000 a year (4K a month) & get 15% cash back offer in form of American Express debit card.

So end of 1st year, I get Rs 7500 in a debit card that I can use for shopping etc.

I'm tempted to opt for it, despite its American Express & they having reputably lower tieup with merchant establishments in India.

Any expert opinion/cautions/suggestions please?
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Old 11th September 2014, 21:43   #1703
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Originally Posted by khoj View Post
Sounds too good...all like most others.
Thanks Sir; just wanted to check if there're anyone else using the same card with the same offer here & what is the actual catch here. Its like I take credit for my payments (there could be a catch here too, like 10-15 days or something instead of 51 days) over & above they're giving 15% of the spent money as offer (may be a catch that I'll have to spend the 15% in next 15 days or so lol). If its purely to increase customer base or customer retention, then, sounds OK to me, otherwise, who should give such a luring offer without any other catch?

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Originally Posted by JohnyBoy View Post
Check annual fees, terms and conditions and fine prints.
Ok
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Old 11th September 2014, 22:11   #1704
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noopster View Post
True, but however careful you are, you never truly know whether the information you enter on an online store website will be secure, do you? Especially for the dodgy ones. I guess Amazon and the like should be sufficiently reliable.
In the general case, you don't enter the card details on an online store website. You do it at a payment provider's website (who arguably protects your data adequately) - the usual suspects in India are Billdesk, CC Avenue, PayU etc.

Some online stores see value in accepting cards on their own websites; but this is a much more complex thing to do. In a past role I did this for my employer with HDFC Bank as our acquirer. They needed full PCI-DSS compliance with a clear plan for plugging all gaps. It was not an easy project to run and I don't think most websites want to take up this extra effort or expense. I am not much of a bargain hunter online, so I know of very few online businesses - Amazon.in, Flipkart, Cleartrip, Bookmyshow (?) - that do this currently. What I see common to all of them is that they are all established brands in their markets with substantial funding and determination to be around for many years to come.

In all cases, PCI-DSS does not allow them to store the CVV2 number; so they don't do it.

My opinion is that cards are compromised either via (a) keyloggers on the end user PC, or (b) compromised PoS devices or operators or both. For example, if a B&M store has a co-branded card (eg: Shoppers Stop) then they might swipe your card for the loyalty system anyway thereby negating all the benefits of the chip-and-pin that RBI is so painfully implementing here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by noopster View Post
How much is it- 3%? Travel cards are no better because they charge transaction fees and withdrawal fees that your regular credit/debit card may not incur. I have used my personal card abroad and there is no alternative in terms of convenience. Of course you do have a valid point, though.
My information is a bit dated. I used to have a Citibank World Money card when I was living out of a suitcase a while back. They used to charge a fixed amount for loading the card, and a transaction fee for ATM cash withdrawals. All PoS transactions were at the day's exchange rate with no premium or service charge. It very definitely was a lot cheaper than the 3% regime.
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Old 11th September 2014, 22:37   #1705
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Quote:
you never truly know whether the information you enter on an online store website will be secure, do you? Especially for the dodgy ones. I guess Amazon and the like should be sufficiently reliable
you can actually , look for " htpps " prefix before payment , besides a secondary check either with OTP or some other form ( filling user name / password ) being made mandatory , its actually quite safe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP_Secure

One trouble for online purchases can be in refunds , in case of physical stores refunds are processed immediately but for online it takes a while and you need to have a RA number from merchant . But given the rudimentary return policies at many stores in India , I think online stores are better

Quote:
How much is it- 3%? Travel cards are no better because they charge transaction fees and withdrawal fees that your regular credit/debit card may not incur
There are no charges for using prepaid cards at merchant establishment . Only at ATM's you may be charged some transaction fees which will be always charged overseas unless you are direct customer of that Bank just like if we use ICICI ATM on HDFC Card but this usually low like $ 1-2 . But there will be no Cash Advance charges unlike credit card .


Quote:
I have used my personal card abroad and there is no alternative in terms of convenience.
That's best option but if you are wary of foreign exchange rate change then prepaid are things to carry besides as I mentioned in prior posts , most Banks will first convert used foreign exchange to USD and then to INR so if you spend in Euros or Sing $ these will first get converted to USD and then to INR which will be expensive then Euro to INR conversion direct in case of Travel card . Most of the travel cards will be valid for 2-3 Years and after expiry funds will be credited back to your account as per prevailing rates . Sometimes this serves as hedge , I have couple of thousands USD in one of my cards which I bought at around Rs 50

Now most of Banks have started offering multi currency Travel Cards - I don't have an hands on experience on this so can't comment .


Quote:
Got a call from American Express...

Here's the deal for offering a new American Express credit card - Take the new offer, spend about 48000 a year (4K a month) & get 15% cash back offer in form of American Express debit card.

So end of 1st year, I get Rs 7500 in a debit card that I can use for shopping etc.
Never heard about this , are you sure you got a call from AMEX direct or some DMA - better ask them to mail the proposal to check for fine prints . Also check which type of card they are offering there are couple of options from Amex both in charge card as well Credit cards but this 15 % Cash back seems to good to be true

Last edited by Turbanator : 11th September 2014 at 22:53.
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Old 12th September 2014, 07:57   #1706
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Default Re: The Credit Card Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbanator View Post
you can actually , look for " htpps " prefix before payment , besides a secondary check either with OTP or some other form ( filling user name / password ) being made mandatory , its actually quite safe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP_Secure
You will find that reality is a lot more nuanced then that; even the Wikipedia article you cite only says "reasonable guarantee". :-) For instance, even with https you are assured of only the "Transport" part of your personal details - that too from your browser to the web server, and not its "Storage" or further transport (from the webserver to a database, for example).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbanator View Post
Sometimes this serves as hedge , I have couple of thousands USD in one of my cards which I bought at around Rs 50
Don't you have to declare this exchange rate gains as income and pay tax on it? Also if I am not mistaken you have to convert such leftover foreign currency into Rupees before the subsequent calendar month ends, as per RBI rules. Unless you are an NRI.
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Old 12th September 2014, 08:07   #1707
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Default Re: The Credit Card Thread

Quote:
You will find that reality is a lot more nuanced then that; even the Wikipedia article you cite only says "reasonable guarantee"
It's like -

"In practice, this provides a reasonable guarantee that one is communicating with precisely the website that one intended to communicate with (as opposed to an imposter), as well as ensuring that the contents of communications between the user and site cannot be read or forged by any third party"


I don't think there is anything which can be called 100 % safe , that's the reason for 2 stage authorisation , chances are too low not ruled out completely again . But the idea was to look for such signs on web while making purchases .

Quote:
Don't you have to declare this exchange rate gains as income and pay tax on it?
It's a gain only if we don't use the card & let it expire and funds get credited back in INR - I am not sure on Income part . If you are regular traveler overseas you can keep this loaded for next visits .

Quote:
Also if I am not mistaken you have to convert such leftover foreign currency into Rupees before the subsequent calendar month ends, as per RBI rules. Unless you are an NRI.
No , you can keep Foreign exchange loaded in card till expiry / validity . What you are referring is the rule applicable on EEFC accounts where you need to use Foreign exchange in a month else it gets converted to INR by Bank .

Last edited by Turbanator : 12th September 2014 at 08:18.
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Old 12th September 2014, 11:04   #1708
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbanator View Post
It's like -

"In practice, this provides a reasonable guarantee that one is communicating with precisely the website that one intended to communicate with (as opposed to an imposter), as well as ensuring that the contents of communications between the user and site cannot be read or forged by any third party"
Right. So that https in the URL says nothing about the trustworthiness of the business behind the website (which is what noopster was concerned about). In fact, all it takes is an email address to get an SSL certificate (ie, the lock icon) nowadays - there is not even any need for cash outlay.

A domain would cost about Rs. 600, hosting maybe another Rs. 200 per month, shopping cart apps are available free, a day or so to create some phantom inventory and voila - you have an e-commerce portal of the kind noopster is worried about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbanator View Post
No , you can keep Foreign exchange loaded in card till expiry / validity . What you are referring is the rule applicable on EEFC accounts where you need to use Foreign exchange in a month else it gets converted to INR by Bank .
My knowledge is a bit hazy here, but iirc residents need to convert all forex they hold by the end of next calendar month unless they have made forex payments in this month. I don't think RBI would make this mandatory for one type of currency holding and not for another type.
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Old 12th September 2014, 11:40   #1709
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Default Re: The Credit Card Thread

I wonder why people call credit card as addiction etc. If you understand that it is simply an extension of you bank account and you should never spend beyond a limit, why so much of a bad rep?

In fact I like paying by cc. It accumulates all the expenses to be paid at one go, I can keep a tab on how much I spend on what catagory, and with chip card and Visa password, it is very safe.

Read Ramit Sethi's 'I will teach you to be rich' for clearing misconceptions regarding credit cards. As per the credit limit, don't put a lowest limit, but rather get highest limit possible (if you want to apply for a big size loan in future). This increases your credit score, as you use only a fraction of your credit limit.

I have put up my credit payment as auto-deduction, so every month I get an sms a few days ago that so much bill is to be paid, and then another one a few days later that payment is done. No intervention from my side is required.
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Old 12th September 2014, 11:43   #1710
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Default Re: The Credit Card Thread

Quote:
So that https in the URL says nothing about the trustworthiness of the business behind the website
Yes , there is no such thing which can you give feedback or trustworthiness it will merely confirm that it is what it actually is unlike many phishing sites . You cannot pay and have wrong SSL

Quote:
but iirc residents need to convert all forex they hold by the end of next calendar month unless they have made forex payments in this month
Nope - this is not correct , you can continue to have funds in your prepaid card till validity of card .
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