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Old 1st December 2010, 08:14   #1
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Angry Hightime the Indian economist and media take course on numeral systems

I accept till date the economy was in a slumber mode and the maximum amount discussed was only INR 1 Crore. But post 2000 the economy is growing rocket speed and there are lot of projects which are going beyond INR 100 Crore budget.

This being the case, its high time one must consider something before quoting a figures as 10000 crore. For e.g. in the 2G scam the amount quoted is alway INR 1.72 Lakh Crore.

For sure when the western media sees this figures they will laugh first on the Indian Numeral system, than on the scam.
Indian numeral system has got figures even beyond crore for heavens sake, not sure why nobody uses it.

Let me put them in paper here.

100 Crore = 1 arab
100 arab = 1 kharab
100 kharab = 1 neel
100 neel = 1 padma (which is equal to 10 power 15)

So when we talk of the GDP of economy, or say things like 2G scam I would expect the media to say either
INR 17.2 kharab or just say INR 17.2 trillion..

Please do not say INR 1.72 lakh crore.

Whats your opinion.

Last edited by xingamazon : 1st December 2010 at 08:21.
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Old 1st December 2010, 09:52   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xingamazon View Post

So when we talk of the GDP of economy, or say things like 2G scam I would expect the media to say either
INR 17.2 kharab or just say INR 17.2 trillion..

Please do not say INR 1.72 lakh crore.

Whats your opinion.
I fully agree, and was thinking about the same, coincidentally.

IMO it is better to switch over to using Billion/Trillion terminology, since it is what the world (or at least the West) has adopted.

Although, some of the "Guardians of Indian Civilization" will object to this, using the very cliched "Aping the West" phenomenon.

All I can say to this is, I have no issues using Arab/Kharab as detailed by Xing, but just consider the effort it would take us to make the Westerners understand the meanings of the terms! And we do want them to understand, for business to happen.

So, just like we have accepted the metric system officially, (which, btw, was NOT devised in India), why not accept the 000-comma-separated million/billion/trillion system?

Cheers,
R_S

EDIT: As an afterthought, I hope none of us are missing the irony in the fact, that this line of thought was prodded by the huge money involved in Indian scams. God Save Us..

Last edited by roadie_swift : 1st December 2010 at 09:55.
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Old 1st December 2010, 10:07   #3
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Wink

Agreed that we should switch over to the Billion/trillion terminology but how would an aam aadmi in the hindi heartland understand these terms. For them its still the words Arab/Kharab would be relevant, dont know how many knew the words neel or padma etc.

Even in hindi news channels the Indian terminology is still widely used, these days more to highlight the scam amount, black money in swiss accounts. In day to day usage, I dont think so anybody would be referring to these terms. So my opinion, lets keep it that way.
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Old 1st December 2010, 10:40   #4
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I agree about your point regarding the Hindi Heartland. But then can't we look at the evolution that happened in these very heartlands from, say, the older units like "ratti", "man", "gaj", "bigha" and "kadam" to the newer units like grams, Kg, meter, sq mt, and km?

These terms are being used today as if they have always been in use. So I guess a similar thing could occur in case of the -illions. Don't you think? After all, the metric units were brought into official use by the govt and media, and thence percolated into the usage of the general populace.

Cheers,
R_S
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Old 1st December 2010, 10:45   #5
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In a very twisted way this post makes me feel bad..
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Old 1st December 2010, 20:47   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
In a very twisted way this post makes me feel bad..
Why so sir... ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghodlur View Post
For them its still the words Arab/Kharab would be relevant, dont know how many knew the words neel or padma etc.
...
In day to day usage, I dont think so anybody would be referring to these terms. So my opinion, lets keep it that way.
Well the only drawback in this is, we can somehow manage with this as of now. But later going by the way things are we will end up saying Indian economy is worth INR 1 thousand lakh crore (for 100000000000000). When the world would easily say INR 1 quadrillion.

I mean we would eventually end up using the same terms, its as good as being uneducated ones.

One option is to adopt to right indian system (by doing some education) or adopt western numerals, not stick in between both and say 1 lakh crore.

If the decision is to use Indian numeral system, one easy way is to include the Indian numeral systems in every avenue of education, by doing this within 5 yrs terms like Arab, Kharab, Neel and Padma would become contemporary terms.
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Old 1st December 2010, 21:48   #7
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they are indeed following the indian system, but not rightly as you pointed it out.

I think it's dumbing down the system so everybod can understand (is it called idiocracy?).

There numerous examples around us that have been been simplified to ridiculous extent so one doesn't have to spend any more time understanding those. Probably lakh crore is easier to understand for the majority of indians since not everybody may have studied (or remembers) arab-kharab-neel-padma-shankh-mahashankh.

EDIT: I may be right. From wikipedia
Quote:
Neel, Padma, Shankh are more commonly found in old sections of Indian Mathematics.
Instead of saying the higher numbers, it is more common to use lakh and crore repeatedly or in combination, saying 1 lakh crore for 1012 or one trillion.
The term crore (کرور [Korur] in Persian) was also used in Iran until recent decades, but with the meaning of 500,000.
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Old 2nd December 2010, 12:47   #8
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Me too hate saying this one Lakh crore business; its high time we adopt to something better to denote higher number. Its difficult to understand the complexities involved especially when the numbers are released on scam

When we follow the foot prints of British, I'm wondering why we didn't follow on this one?
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Old 2nd December 2010, 15:15   #9
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Just now I realised something, it would actually sound funny if someone says I am planning to start a business with a capital of 1 Arab.

Or say Imagine, Headlines of leading news papers reading,
Raja 2G scam worth 100 arabs.

One would immediately think Raja went to a middle east country and cheated the Arab people



Anyway these terms require a change for sure, we need to figure out a better way.

Last edited by xingamazon : 2nd December 2010 at 15:16.
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Old 2nd December 2010, 15:25   #10
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BTW did we really loose those lakhs of crores, I mean it was all paper money right? maybe a few hundred crores of real money.
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Old 2nd December 2010, 17:46   #11
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Quote:
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BTW did we really loose those lakhs of crores, I mean it was all paper money right? maybe a few hundred crores of real money.
Earlier to the 3G auction people did not realize how much Indian treasury had lost owing to the 2G spectrum sharing.

But once the 3G rates sky rocketed everyone realised that it was a golden egg laying goose that we had lost out. Thats the reason.

Using the 3G rates as a benckmark the figured out how much it would have cost to 2G thats why people are seeing astronomical figures for this.
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Old 2nd December 2010, 19:11   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zaks View Post
BTW did we really loose those lakhs of crores, I mean it was all paper money right? maybe a few hundred crores of real money.
each of those papers have a note from the governor of RBI saying he owes that much money. Since RBI is very strict about sending money out of India, I am assuming this money was transferred from overseas investors into Raja and co. accounts. So in other words, we lost out on the money that was supposed to land in Indian treasury.
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Old 5th December 2010, 21:11   #13
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I don't feel comfortable using this so called Indian system.I prefer to use S.I units or this lakh and crore.

Moreover, our country being multi - linguistic, this is not feasible as their maybe protest from other section of society as they have their own metric naming system and want to have their own system.
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Old 5th December 2010, 21:29   #14
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In India we haven't talked about such big amounts previously. A crore is huge money and everything more than that is measured in terms of how many crores.

Since its easy to understand, I dont find anything wrong in this. I use billion, trillion when it comes to dollars.
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