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Old 1st January 2011, 14:36   #16
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Default Re: Ambassador Gran Turismo-My proposal

Its a great design ...Look awesome.

But in my opinion a car gets it heritage also based on it own strengths.

For eg. The old and the new mini are both small and have good handling - Thats the mini's forte - its strength.

The ambassadors forte was "affordable" car with good ride and lot of space for passengers and luggage. Making it into a 2 door GT doesnt make sense to me.

If Porsche makes a modern 928, and makes it into a slow 4 door saloon, it wont make sense would it?

Sidenote: If one considers all the Ambassador strengths, the new Ambassador is already here : The Indigo Manza

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Old 1st January 2011, 15:14   #17
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Default Re: Ambassador Gran Turismo-My proposal

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Originally Posted by crazycardude198 View Post
Ok here goes. Why is it called Ambassador? Simple, because I want it to be called Ambassador. I dont like the original car and I want to do better. I want to make it into the car I feel would best represent the Ambassador name in today's modern India.
Great looking design and has nothing to do with Ambassador. You could give any other name as you wish.

Remember if someone wishes to buy (not talking about taxi fleet owners) an Ambassador today, he'll buy it for it's old world charm. Of course he'll expect improvements but that should not take away what Ambassador stands for. Today still an Ambassador sticks out amidst all modern designs. According to me that's the charm (if any). I would like to buy a new Ambassador with all current developments but not at the cost of losing original identities.
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Old 1st January 2011, 15:14   #18
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Sidenote: If one considers all the Ambassador strengths, the new Ambassador is already here : The Indigo Manza
agree on this - the indigo manza reminded me of ambassador!
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Old 1st January 2011, 15:48   #19
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Default Re: Ambassador Gran Turismo-My proposal

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Originally Posted by AbhiJ View Post
Its a great design ...Look awesome.

But in my opinion a car gets it heritage also based on it own strengths.

For eg. The old and the new mini are both small and have good handling - Thats the mini's forte - its strength.

The ambassadors forte was "affordable" car with good ride and lot of space for passengers and luggage. Making it into a 2 door GT doesnt make sense to me.

If Porsche makes a modern 928, and makes it into a slow 4 door saloon, it wont make sense would it?

Sidenote: If one considers all the Ambassador strengths, the new Ambassador is already here : The Indigo Manza
Yes, you are right but the new mini and old mini have one crucial difference...MARKET. The new mini is a luxury car compared to the original. Issigonis specifically designed the car for everyday people in everyday applications. Lets face it, there are somethings a new mini cannot do. Why else would they make the Clubman and Countryman?

I agree with you that the Amby was good on space and comfort but I do have problems in believing it was affordable. You have to understand that the Amby was only affordable to a relatively small spectrum if Indian's. Despite the number of cars in India today only 15-20% of Indians can actually afford to buy a car despite the economic boom.

One trademark that Indians have is that they tend to be aspirational. Eventually some of those Indians buying small cars will graduate to a bigger car and so on. Its quite clear that the fastest growing segment in India is the Luxury segment. Small wonder then that premium companies are crawling on broken glass to try an penetrate the market within months of a new release. Making the new Ambassador expensive and luxurious will set the foundation for further HM products. Its called the trickle-down effect. It was used by Skoda, VW and Nissan and it seems to have worked. This was my logic.

Didnt Porsche make they Cayenne? Remember the controversy THAT caused? Hey guess what though, its selling like crazy in India!!

For a car company brand values are everything. Put a badge on it and it will sell. Whether it makes sense or not *cough cough BMW X6* is immaterial. Thats how the industry works, true story.
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Old 1st January 2011, 16:08   #20
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Default Re: Ambassador Gran Turismo-My proposal

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Originally Posted by Rudra Sen View Post
Great looking design and has nothing to do with Ambassador. You could give any other name as you wish.

Remember if someone wishes to buy (not talking about taxi fleet owners) an Ambassador today, he'll buy it for it's old world charm. Of course he'll expect improvements but that should not take away what Ambassador stands for. Today still an Ambassador sticks out amidst all modern designs. According to me that's the charm (if any). I would like to buy a new Ambassador with all current developments but not at the cost of losing original identities.

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agree on this - the indigo manza reminded me of ambassador!
@Rudra Sen Thank you for the comment, but the Amby name is staying. It will be called the Hindustan Motors Ambassador GT. End-of-story

OK couple of things. Every car is like a brand to a corporation, like how Coca Cola owns several brands under its umbrella, juices being one of them. Part of the issue with HM is that the Ambassador, though loved and admired by many, is still a horrible car. We all look at it with affection, like a nice elephant. Would you actually go and buy an elephant...No. What I'm trying to do is inject desirability into the elephant by making it look safe, expensive and beautiful.

Part of the idea is to remove the old Amby tag and replace it with a new tag, making it emotional, desirable and aspirational. You cant sell cars unless people WANT to buy them! I feel that the identity of the car is more on the non-visual aspects like ride and space rather than the car as a whole. Thankfully in this day and age its not a tall order. Question is which car can we attach these identities to? This is where my proposal comes in.

Thats a good observation! Manza does seem to be the sequel to the Ambassador. Too bad its called a Tata. Oh well...
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Old 1st January 2011, 16:11   #21
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Default Re: Ambassador Gran Turismo-My proposal

^^ are you working with HM on this project or is this just a 'wish n hope' that you want HM to latch on to :-)
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Old 1st January 2011, 16:50   #22
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Default Re: Ambassador Gran Turismo-My proposal

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@Rudra Sen Thank you for the comment, but the Amby name is staying. It will be called the Hindustan Motors Ambassador GT. End-of-story
I told you before, It's your choice as far as the name is concern. But the name Hindustan Motors Ambassador doesn't go with your design. If you force it then it'll be a one more Me Too in the automotive market. It'll have no relevance with Hindustan Motors Ambassador.
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Originally Posted by crazycardude198
like how Coca Cola owns several brands under its umbrella, juices being one of them.
Totally disagree. Coca Cola is known in the market for Coca Cola. Nothing to do with their other brands.

Note: My reply may sound rude to you but that's not the intention here anyway. I know (read have) Ambassador sentiments and I know what brand means.
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Old 1st January 2011, 18:04   #23
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I told you before, It's your choice as far as the name is concern. But the name Hindustan Motors Ambassador doesn't go with your design. If you force it then it'll be a one more Me Too in the automotive market. It'll have no relevance with Hindustan Motors Ambassador.
Totally disagree. Coca Cola is known in the market for Coca Cola. Nothing to do with their other brands.

Note: My reply may sound rude to you but that's not the intention here anyway. I know (read have) Ambassador sentiments and I know what brand means.
Dont worry I dont take offence to any comments, this is a forum where debate is encouraged. Please do not be afraid to speak your mind. I appreciate honesty and free dialogue. As far as I am concerned, this is all part of the job.

First of all that sketch is just that...a sketch. I just wanted to give you guys a taster of what direction I was going to go. It is by no means a final design and there are some things that I will definitely change before the thesis is complete. However this is the profile I want to go by. If you feel that it doesnt go with the brand or the car then thats ok. Thats kinda the idea. I want to change the brand one brick at a time. A good example is the Mini, initially it was a quirky car for the masses, now its a chic transport for upper middle class urbanites. A sea change from the original but nonetheless successful.

As a person familiar with the auto industry I can tell you that HM in general and the Ambassador in particular are quite frankly, utter failures. Their cars are purchased in fleet or by enthusiasts. In the case of the old Beetle, the cars just kept on selling, so it made sense to VW to keep making it until only a few years ago. The sad fact is, as of now, the Amby and its brand name is, in terms of sales, dead and finished. Small wonder than that HM are bringing in Mitsubishi cars, rather ironic dont you think.

The fact is this, I appreciate your passion for the Amby, it really is an iconic car and you have every right to feel passionate for it. Unfortunately its time has come, both in terms of sales and the brand at large. If you feel offended by the design that means you are not the customer I am intending the car for. The customers for this car will be aware of the Amby but never drive it in person. In order to sell the car to a new customer base, a new idea is required. Enthusiasts have always been financial gold for car companies, I mean see for yourself, the Ford Mustang, Chevrolet Camaro, Ford Thunderbird, Dodge Charger, Chrysler 300, Mercedes SLS, Dodge Challenger, New Mini, New Beetle, none of these cars are meant for the original customers ( they are all old men now!). They are meant for young customers, aware of the brand but as of yet not engaged with it personally. This is the market I am aiming for.

At the end of the day, the Amby's image, sales wise, is gone. It is still seen with affection but no desire. At that goes with HM as well. The Amby will always be linked to the company. So therefore in order to change the company, you have to change the product. As for it being a "me too" kind of car, I disagree. The Amby, as terrible as it is, has a lot of emotional value in India. As a designer, its important to exploit those emotions and use it to fuel renewed interest in a new model. Thats why companies love recycling old brand names. It makes marketing them just that little bit easier.
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Old 1st January 2011, 18:53   #24
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Default Re: Ambassador Gran Turismo-My proposal

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Originally Posted by crazycardude198 View Post
Dont worry I dont take offence to any comments, this is a forum where debate is encouraged. Please do not be afraid to speak your mind.
Iím not worried. Thanks anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazycardude198
First of all that sketch is just that...a sketch.
And that too a nice one. But..
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazycardude198
If you feel that it doesnt go with the brand or the car then thats ok. Thats kinda the idea. I want to change the brand one brick at a time.
Itís not important that what Iím feeling here. Itís a process as you mentioned as one brick at a time. Thatís not what I see here. Your design is a sea change here from the current one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazycardude198
A good example is the Mini, initially it was a quirky car for the masses, now its a chic transport for upper middle class urbanites. A sea change from the original but nonetheless successful.
Itís a debatable topic by itself. So I refrain from commenting anything here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazycardude198
As a person familiar with the auto industry I can tell you that HM in general and the Ambassador in particular are quite frankly, utter failures.
It was a success till it was a sellers market.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazycardude198
The fact is this, I appreciate your passion for the Amby, it really is an iconic car and you have every right to feel passionate for it.
I just happen to have an Amby. My passion is only for my car and not for the brand as a whole.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazycardude198
If you feel offended by the design that means you are not the customer I am intending the car for.
Iím not for a moment offended by your design. In fact I liked it as a design and Iíve mentioned that before.
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Originally Posted by crazycardude198
The customers for this car will be aware of the Amby but never drive it in person.
Then it could be any car from HMís stable and not an Ambassador. Isnít it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazycardude198
I mean see for yourself, the Ford Mustang, Chevrolet Camaro, Ford Thunderbird, Dodge Charger, Chrysler 300, Mercedes SLS, Dodge Challenger, New Mini, New Beetle, none of these cars are meant for the original customers ( they are all old men now!) .
And they all have gone through your one brick at a time process. By the way, current Ford Mustang doesnít have the same muscular looks as 70/80s.. Not only my view but lot of people here will agree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazycardude198
As for it being a "me too" kind of car, I disagree.
Then letís agree to disagree. Your current design Amby will look like nicely designed me too car only. There has to be a one brick at a time process. If not then you cannot radically change the design overnight and call it an Amby. I hope you got my point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazycardude198
The Amby, as terrible as it is, has a lot of emotional value in India. As a designer, its important to exploit those emotions and use it to fuel renewed interest in a new model.
Perfect. So take those emotions into account when designing a new Amby.
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Old 1st January 2011, 21:14   #25
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Default Re: Ambassador Gran Turismo-My proposal

Wow! This thread has actually turned into a debate.

@crazycardude198: I 100% agree with your ideas.
What I feel is that like Mini, Ambassador should be turned into a brand itself and should not be associated to a particular car.
Then we can have many models under that brand.

Your design could very well be called the Ambassador GT, a 4-door can be called Ambassador Royale (or something on that lines). Next may be a SUV can be derived from the same platform and named something like the Ambassador X-over, etc.
There is no limit to imagination.

By the way, here is one of my designs that I had made for the next generation Ambassador:
Ambassador by ~SRK-DESIGNS on deviantART
(Nothing as great as yours, but just a glimpse of what could be the future)
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Old 1st January 2011, 21:53   #26
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Default Re: Ambassador Gran Turismo-My proposal

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Wow! This thread has actually turned into a debate.
Not really SRK, I've just tried to put things in perspective.

Nice design from you of Amby there. Like it.
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Old 17th June 2011, 11:32   #27
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Default Re: Ambassador Gran Turismo-My proposal

Hi there crazy car dude. I see you are into the automotive styling field. Also you seem to sport a good attitude while taking critisism.

I for one do not doubt your skills on paper or virtual world after looking at the sketches and the renderings by you. I would like to point out one thing is that practicality, feasability, understanding of market, brand value and design language is yet to solidify in you. I totally understand as a student you are all charged up and ready to paint the town red. but automotive styling is not sketches alone.

As per your amby design i would have preferred some more influence from the companies previous model. As it is a known fact that a sudden design change will never be accepted by the user. If a mini evolved into what it is today, it took some decades to happen and not a fort night. HM is where mini was in the yesteryears and we cant go ahead and modernise the car in a fortnight. The car has to evolve through stages. I hope you take my points positively and all the best for your future buddy!

This is what i had done some time back on the amby following the design language of the old ancestor. The sketch and renderings are only some hours of effort and not much thought put into it.
Attached Thumbnails
Ambassador Gran Turismo-My proposal-sketch.jpg  

Ambassador Gran Turismo-My proposal-ambaaa.jpg  


Last edited by konjaril : 17th June 2011 at 11:35.
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