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Old 3rd January 2011, 10:46   #46
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Default Re: Can a customer be charged for Service (at a restaurant)?

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Originally Posted by pjbiju View Post
I recall a court verdict that said that restaurants can charge over MRP (for water and other packed stuff) as their service charges. This was in connection with a petition regarding multiplexes charging more than MRP for bottled drinks and water etc. According to the verdict, the multiplexes etc. cannot charge more than the MRP, but restaurants/hotels can.
Actually I pursued this with Subway.
My experience is logged here
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shifti...ra-charge.html (Soft Drinks, no extra service but extra charge.)

And there response is noted here

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shifti...ml#post1302961 (Soft Drinks, no extra service but extra charge.)

Reproducing it here:

Quote:
Dear Imran,



Thank you for taking time out to give us your valuable feedback. We believe that "A customer who complains is our best friend".



You are aware that we restaurants are in the business of providing service & making profits to stay in this business. As all restaurants we too at Subway have invested tons of money in the brand, ambience etc & Mr. Justice Vikramjeet Sen, High Court of Delhi on 5th March, 2007 has finally recognized this fact & passed a verdict in favor of hotels & restaurants, by allowing the petition and held that charging prices in excess of MRP printed on the package to customers in hotels and restaurants does not violate any of the provisions of the Standards of Weights and Measures Act as this does not constitute the sale or transfer of these commodities by the hotelier or restaurateur to its customers. Hence any product having an MRP price on it can be sold for any price decided by the business that is a hotel or a restaurant. The MRP prices are valid only for sale in a shop or super markets.



The operative part of the judgment i.e. para 16 is reproduced below:



Para -16



“In the above analysis I hold that charging prices in excess of MRP printed on the packaging, during the service of customers in hotels and restaurants does not violate any of the provisions of the SWM Act as this does not constitute a sale or transfer of these commodities by the hotelier or Restaurateur to its customers. The customer does not enter a hotel or a restaurant to make a simple purchase of these commodities. It may well be that a client would order nothing beyond a bottle of water or a beverage, but his direct purpose in doing so would clearly travel to enjoying the ambience available therein and incidentally to the ordering of any article for consumption. Can there by any justifiable reason for the Court or Commission to interdict the sale of commodities other than at a certain price, and ignore the relatively exorbitant charge for a cup of tea or coffee. The response to this rhetorical query cannot but be in the negative. Although the vires of Rule 23 have been assailed, I do not find it necessary to answer that challenge since the provision relates to sales between dealers and neither the hotels and restaurants of the one part and customers of the other falls within this categorization.”
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Old 3rd January 2011, 11:00   #47
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Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
A correction this is the way hospitality industry works in western world that is USA , Europe and Australia but not necessarily globally specially if you do not want to exclude Asia from globe.
Aah ok I agree on this bit. But India is a place, where I have noticed, everyone except the waiters keeps asking for a tip! Waiters don't pester you for tips because its bad for the image of the hotel. But you take everyone from your car cleaner to the maid, they all keep trying to get some extra money out of you (read as tip).
The point here is - ah well i am not sure there is a point, just an observation
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Old 3rd January 2011, 11:07   #48
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Default Re: Can a customer be charged for Service (at a restaurant)?

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Originally Posted by jassi View Post
Aah ok I agree on this bit. But India is a place, where I have noticed, everyone except the waiters keeps asking for a tip! Waiters don't pester you for tips because its bad for the image of the hotel. But you take everyone from your car cleaner to the maid, they all keep trying to get some extra money out of you (read as tip).
The point here is - ah well i am not sure there is a point, just an observation
There is a subtle difference Jassi , maids , Car cleaners , postman etc. do not ask for tip for every service they render.

They just ask you on certain festive occasions as per prevalent culture. This was an established practice in villages in agrarian society because wages were always paid in kind and not in cash till 40-50 years ago. Washer-men , maids , barbers and all the people who provided services waited till the post harvest season ( Holi , Diwali) to get their share of produce for the services they rendered. It was a barter economy for most purposes.

In modern times wages are paid monthly in cash but the cultural expectation to receive an "Inam" or gift for festival remains.

But this is not same as a tip over and above the service rendered (7 to 15%) as expected in USA for services in restaurant / Saloon / Spa etc.

Last edited by amitk26 : 3rd January 2011 at 11:10.
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Old 3rd January 2011, 12:35   #49
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Default Re: Can a customer be charged for Service (at a restaurant)?

We are speaking about tipping, how much of the service charge charged to the customer actually goes to the waiter?

Does it at all get paid?
Should you pay for shoddy service and be charged as "Service Charge"?

Why is the concept of service charge or Tip? Do they not know that the salaries would be less?

Do we get paid for number of emails you send, isnt it a service to company. Agreed salaries in IT are good enough. But how good? Sufficient? It depends on individuals isnt it?

Similarly the point I am trying to make is "Service Charge" is just another way of making many for the hoteliers.
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Old 3rd January 2011, 12:39   #50
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Default Re: Can a customer be charged for Service (at a restaurant)?

Agreed that service charge may not make it to the waiters completely.
Tips when given to waiters (or valet parking attendants) are mostly pooled (not sure in India) and then shared equally amongst everyone from the waiters to the dish washers.

I am not quite sure from the thread name anymore, if we are talking about tipping only in India, or anywhere across the world.
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Old 3rd January 2011, 13:02   #51
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Default Re: Can a customer be charged for Service (at a restaurant)?

I think that service charge is simply a ploy by the hotels and restaurants to jack up their prices by additional percentage. When they put up tables for customers to dine in their premises, it is implied that the customer will be served food at the table. Hotels price their food accordingly and must serve without any additional service charge. they may however charge extra for any additional service rendered beyond the normal norm.

Paying Tips for service staff is not an obligation on the customer. It is a reward based on the better service. Why we should pay service charge ( in name of tips) if the service is lousy.
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Old 3rd January 2011, 13:12   #52
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Default Re: Can a customer be charged for Service (at a restaurant)?

I agree with what amitk26 has written. This whole tipping thing is a very western habit, and sadly it now seems to be coming off as some kind of mandatory etiquette

In countries like China, Japan, Hong Kong and several other SE Asian countries, tipping is considered rude at most places and taken at times as an insult.

For instance, a yuppie tipping an older man, makes it seem as though the yuppie feels the guy doesnt earn enough and needs to give him the tip. There was an instance where i had tipped a person at a joint in one of the SE countries. After I left, is suddenly found the waiter running after me and he returned the note to me, saying that i had left behind the money and thanking me for my generosity. When i told him it was a tip, he told me a no no, quite rapidly, smilling at the same time
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Old 3rd January 2011, 13:46   #53
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Default Re: Can a customer be charged for Service ???

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Originally Posted by akshay4587 View Post
I recently went to Nando's( Welcome to Nando's. The official worldwide home of Nando's famous Peri-Peri chicken.) for lunch.
The service was not upto the mark,i had to ask for water thrice,before anyone listened to our request.
and i paid 10% service tax apart from the 12.5% usual VAT.
i wonder for what did i pay the 10%
and off course,we left without paying any tip.
Akshay, the servive tax which you paid is different from the 'service charge' being discussed on this thread. Service tax is a tax which is levied by the government on services rendered, just like VAT is applicable on goods.

'Service charge' on the other hand is the amount which is added to your bill by the restaurant as part of tips collected by force. I am not too enthused by the idea. With nothing left to work for, it is only natural for a waiter to be complacent about the services rendered.

I agree with carboy's post on this issue.
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Old 3rd January 2011, 14:42   #54
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Default Re: Can a customer be charged for Service (at a restaurant)?

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Originally Posted by jassi View Post

I am not quite sure from the thread name anymore, if we are talking about tipping only in India, or anywhere across the world.
Good point Jassi , Since thread starter narrated experience at little Italia on 100 Feet Road Indiranagae I assume this is for India.
Little Italia is following a US practice where if service charge is included in Bill you are not expected to tip.

My rule of thumb follow local practice always add 10% in USA , Europe and never leave any money in Japan , Korea and a small change just for the guy who serves on table in India because here tip money is never pooled and distributed it is just for the guy who served you.
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Old 3rd January 2011, 14:52   #55
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Default Re: Can a customer be charged for Service (at a restaurant)?

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Originally Posted by nandans2005 View Post
Hey Guys,

"Wish you all a very happy and a prosperous 2011"

==============
r words called " TIPS"

My point is whether this is " LEGAL" AND " CORRECT".
Yes it is perfectly alright!!! Don't know about legality but I have seen this across the world. Anyway the rule for tipping is 10%.
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Old 3rd January 2011, 16:09   #56
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Default Re: Can a customer be charged for Service (at a restaurant)?

In the USA, I think TGIF doesn't have any default compulsory tip added to the bill. However, if your party is more than a particular number (8 or 10 or something, I forgot), they automatically add a tip %age to your bill.

Is there any other industry where if you buy more you are charged more per piece instead of being given a discount?
Restaurant industry is totally broken!!!
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Old 3rd January 2011, 16:14   #57
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Default Re: Can a customer be charged for Service (at a restaurant)?

Do they make it clear beforehand say in Menu or some notice (near cashier) - that there is ADDITIONAL 5% service charge?

If no - it is illegal.
You have all the right to know prior to what you would pay ...
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Old 3rd January 2011, 17:03   #58
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Default Re: Can a customer be charged for Service (at a restaurant)?

We are looking at two aspects here:

- Tipping the waiter (service provider)
- Charging a service charge at a percentage of the total bill value.

Tipping a phenomenon similar to the bakhshish we have in India, which is more applicable for long term associations (like housemaid etc). Normally its a month's salary (or 8.33%). And this culture of bakshish has been prevalent in India, its an expectation for services well performed.

Addition of a fixed charge in resaurants in the guise of service charges looks like the familiar 'Fuel surcharge' and 'Passenger Service Fee' levied by airlines. Because this allows them to market their 'low' prices better. Somehow the two things do not appear connected. Charging customers additionally for tips is like asking for reimbursement.

Another line of thought on this. Why should only waiters be tipped? There are many people including the kitchen staff, the raw material purchaser, the guard at the door, the cleaner etc who may not 'face' the customer. Even their work must be recognized and appreciated. (not like in the Mainland China ad, though )
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Old 3rd January 2011, 17:23   #59
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Default Re: Can a customer be charged for Service (at a restaurant)?

Hard earned money - this is my stand, if someone needs me to pay, they need to earn it (read: do a good job). In our market today, people think of all ways to extract money from their customers. I will tip only those who do a good job. Never hesitated NOT to tip a bearer when they mess up.

Went to Popular Maruti Service center - Broken driver side door handle - Cost of the spare 164.00 - Labour is 200.00 - work completed in 10 mins. Total bill of 406 including tax (the mechanic is a good friend of mine, he tells me the labor charged is too much. All they need is to remove two screws and fix it)

What do you say?

Last edited by NFS : 3rd January 2011 at 17:25.
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Old 4th January 2011, 09:44   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carboy View Post
In the USA, I think TGIF doesn't have any default compulsory tip added to the bill. However, if your party is more than a particular number (8 or 10 or something, I forgot), they automatically add a tip %age to your bill.

Is there any other industry where if you buy more you are charged more per piece instead of being given a discount?
Restaurant industry is totally broken!!!
This is normal in a lot of places in the US (no practical experience but from reading waiter's rant ) and is done to avoid cheap customers who come in large groups and consume the waiter's energies and then don't tip him. Note again this is in the US, where waiters are expected to make their pay in tips and the waiter would be better off serving 5 tables with 2 heads each who will tip instead of one table with 10 heads who won't tip!

Last edited by jassi : 4th January 2011 at 09:47.
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