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Old 31st January 2011, 14:47   #31
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Default Re: Crisis in Egypt : Is India also headed in that direction?

Just keeping with the question posed, what's happening in Egypt is to ask the long ruling President to step down. I don't think there is any bigger revolution or change that's happening.
And why would such thing is needed in India where citizens vote and elect their leaders?
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Old 31st January 2011, 15:02   #32
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Default Re: Crisis in Egypt : Is India also headed in that direction?

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Just keeping with the question posed, what's happening in Egypt is to ask the long ruling President to step down. I don't think there is any bigger revolution or change that's happening.
And why would such thing is needed in India where citizens vote and elect their leaders?
yes but are citizens in india REALLY electing their leaders?

When a politician or political party pays off people in a locality with material goods to vote, then thats not a free and fair election. That's just rigging/stuffing the ballot box. I think what people are talking about here is the long standing nepotism, corruption and cronyisim in this country. Both major parties, and in fact ALL political parties in India, are gulity of this. I used to think that Congress was better than BJP, but all the scandals last year, have made me lose faith.

The first thing that needs to change is corruption in the police forces; and that change needs to start at the most basic levels, i.e the beat cops. If citizens see that the police are helping them and protecting them, instead of harrasing them and extracting bribes from them, then they will be a lot more comfortable. I know i sure would. The Police shouldnt demand respect from the public, they need to earn it. I think these guys have forgotten who pays their salaries. If enough people would speak about their harsh treatment from the Police and bribery, then things will change or at least be set on the path to change. It has to start somewhere, why not at the most basic, grassroots levels.

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Old 31st January 2011, 15:57   #33
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Default Re: Crisis in Egypt : Is India also headed in that direction?

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yes but are citizens in india REALLY electing their leaders?
Not really the current PM did not contest election at all and filed an affidavit declaring himself as normal resident of Assam to enter Rajya Sabha.
He is known to be man of integrity and most honest of the current lot and everyone knows that he never stayed in Assam normally so you can just imagine how low our expectation from politicians is, when it comes to integrity and honesty

But still by and large elections are free yes there are allegations of rigging but still if you look at other countries in neighborhood like Bangladesh, Pakistan,Nepal there is a big difference. Here politicians have learnt how to hand over power and step down peacefully. This is a great achievement for a developing country.

The protests and opposition is not as violent and dysfunctional as in Bangladesh for example.Similarly in Middle east people have no hope left that ruler will step down ever and hand over the power where as here that is still one thing that works despite all the chaos.
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Old 2nd February 2011, 04:06   #34
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Default Re: Crisis in Egypt : Is India also headed in that direction?

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Not really the current PM did not contest election at all and filed an affidavit declaring himself as normal resident of Assam to enter Rajya Sabha.
He is known to be man of integrity and most honest of the current lot and everyone knows that he never stayed in Assam normally so you can just imagine how low our expectation from politicians is, when it comes to integrity and honesty

But still by and large elections are free yes there are allegations of rigging but still if you look at other countries in neighborhood like Bangladesh, Pakistan,Nepal there is a big difference. Here politicians have learnt how to hand over power and step down peacefully. This is a great achievement for a developing country.

The protests and opposition is not as violent and dysfunctional as in Bangladesh for example.Similarly in Middle east people have no hope left that ruler will step down ever and hand over the power where as here that is still one thing that works despite all the chaos.
The allegations are mostly true though. Im not talking about the higher up positions, im talking about local politics. Politicians paying people to vote for them or seducing them with material goods, does not constitute a free and fair election. I do agree with you that politicians have learned to step down peacefully and hand over power when they have been defeated.

But corruption in public servants, like in the police forces as i discussed in my last post, is the first thing that needs to change.
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Old 2nd February 2011, 16:31   #35
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Default Re: Crisis in Egypt : Is India also headed in that direction?

Corruption is institutionalised in India. So much so, it wont be wrong in assuming that the politicians and the bureaucrats have done their best in insulating themselves from lawsuits and prosecution for their dishonest deeds.

For instance, to take a central cabinet minister to court, you need the President's approval (who wont give approval, seeing that he/she is from the same political party). Its the same in the states, state ministers/Chief minister cannot be prosecuted without the Governor's approval.

Now take the case of the babus, the IAS/IPS/IFS dudes (God's gift to this country) -anybody above the rank of deputy secretary cannot be prosecuted without the Chief Secretary/Cabinet Secretary's approval. Even a FIR cannot be lodged against a central or a state babu. Forget about getting approval !!

So when one is assured that no action can be taken "as per law", our netas and babus tend to throw caution to the winds and indulge in shady deals and corrupt practices.

We have our Lokayuktas in the states, but no Lokpal at the centre. Both are toothless when it comes to prosecuting bureaucrats & politicians. Approvals from the Govt are necessary even for the Lokayukta.

Why are different people judged differently, even in a "socialist, secular, democratic republic" ?

God help us !!
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Old 2nd February 2011, 19:41   #36
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Default Re: Crisis in Egypt : Is India also headed in that direction?

From the recent developments in Egypt a 'new' term has emerged from nowhere. 'Pro-Mubarak Protesters'. Lol! Classic divide and rule plot. Initially there were no 'pro-Mubarak'. Everyone was against him. Now some wise guy will 'emerge' who will again be some pro-western puppet supporting the cause of Israel and US. Obviously some people have been purchased for fighting the anti-mubarak mob.
Why can't we have this in India, because we are already divided on the basis of religion. We like to see each others blood on the roads and like to mock one and another. So it is public against public. Not public against tyrannt goverments.

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Old 2nd February 2011, 20:35   #37
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Default Re: Crisis in Egypt : Is India also headed in that direction?

Im seriously tired of people condemning the government to the core. The Happy Life that you and your loved ones enjoy is because of our government.
So Do not compare our democracy to a dictatorship(assumed).
Give me a perfect example of a government that runs things smoothly with a population >500 million.

Yes , People are corrupt. But we are the CORE reason behind it. We Indirectly or Directly support corruption which fuels even more corruption.


The Answer to The Thread starter's Query.
"Not In This Century"
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Old 2nd February 2011, 20:37   #38
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Default Re: Crisis in Egypt : Is India also headed in that direction?

Yup, Not in this century

Just look at india's neighbourhood and tell me a country any of you would like to migrate to? We are doing much better than all of our neighbours with whom we have a shared past.

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Old 2nd February 2011, 20:55   #39
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Default Re: Crisis in Egypt : Is India also headed in that direction?

For any movement in India people have to be united first and not divided by caste and religion. Chickening out to countless other countries is easy, making ours better requires some effort. No Government is clean. So some will enjoy and the others can crib endlessly w/o effort from personal side.
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Old 2nd February 2011, 21:15   #40
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Default Re: Crisis in Egypt : Is India also headed in that direction?

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Originally Posted by prince_pervez View Post
From the recent developments in Egypt a 'new' term has emerged from nowhere. 'Pro-Mubarak Protesters'. Lol! Classic divide and rule plot. Initially there were no 'pro-Mubarak'. Everyone was against him. Now some wise guy will 'emerge' who will again be some pro-western puppet supporting the cause of Israel and US. Obviously some people have been purchased for fighting the anti-mubarak mob.
Why can't we have this in India, because we are already divided on the basis of religion. We like to see each others blood on the roads and like to mock one and another. So it is public against public. Not public against tyrannt goverments.
Can we keep Israel and US out of it? This thread has already been on scrutiny from moderators.

To answer the original question, No, not because most of us are deep into it, but also because a change will only mean somebody else will get to eat the pie. Actually I am afraid Egypt may not accomplish much either. In a complex society like ours, we need a lot of checks and balances to keep the things clean.
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Old 2nd February 2011, 21:32   #41
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Default Re: Crisis in Egypt : Is India also headed in that direction?

India can never have a revolution as we (including yours truly) are too selfish and involved in our own lives to think about the country and do not have a community feeling and involvement. Why bother when my house fire is burning and my pocket is getting bigger.

The lower income group can organize such a revolution but they are easily satisfied and manipulated by sops and the higher income group is least bothered to disrupt the apple cart.

But on a different note , it would be great as we could have wonderful opportunities in the changed economic and political environment. I keep on dreaming (would like to become the character from Rajneeti) but alas.
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Old 2nd February 2011, 21:34   #42
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Default Re: Crisis in Egypt : Is India also headed in that direction?

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he is just an autocratic dictator who has been rigging elections after elections to stay in power with the support of US & Israel.
I completely agree whether anyone likes it or not. Sorry to hurt anyone's feelings and bias.
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Old 2nd February 2011, 21:38   #43
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Not Yet:

Some factors

1) We still do get jobs

2) Our economy is doing fine

3) Our middle class wont VOTE. Protest Blah!!

4) The people who will protest can be controlled by our cunning politicos

5) Our govt is corrupt because we let them get away. Simple we get what we deserve.

One party calls the other communal while the reality says that every party has had riots under their rule! Period
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Needless to say this fellow is the puppet of the mentioned. It is impertive that he stays at his position unlike the Tunsian puppet who finally after door to door knocking of his masters found asylum with puppets in KSA.
If Mubarak resigns and the opposition takes charge it is curtains for Israel's existance.
That is why I feel he will not be overthrown. Boy uncle Sam's trousers are on fire.

It will take a lot for such a thing to happen in India. Last time we did this. We got independence.

Point 3 in maddy's post above is probably one of the major reasons for the sad state of affairs in our country. The middle class here has become so cynical over the years that they are not the least interested in who gets elected.

To Pervez's point on independence, we probably need another mass movement to rid us of all the ills our society faces today. Easier said than done, but it did happen
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Old 2nd February 2011, 21:46   #44
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Point 3 in maddy's post above...
I agree albiet to some extent only. See, is it the scene that we know for sure that the other side is absolutely clean? Maybe lesser evil, but still evil. In lieu of the same point, probably the middle class realises this hence enjoys the holiday instead of choosing a government.

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To Pervez's point on independence, we probably need another mass movement to rid us of all the ills our society faces today. Easier said than done, but it did happen
Good intention, I like it. Back then we were united. Now we are divided to the point of no return. And they are making full use of it.
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Old 2nd February 2011, 22:01   #45
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Default Re: Crisis in Egypt : Is India also headed in that direction?

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Hosni Mubarak is considered as an elder statesman by other world leaders but for the common man in Egypt he is just an autocratic dictator who has been rigging elections after elections to stay in power with the support of US & Israel.
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I completely agree whether anyone likes it or not. Sorry to hurt anyone's feelings and bias.
Prince_pervez,

Pls see the complete sentence

Sorry for the OT -Whether you like it or not the fact of the matter is that Israel is there to stay whether Mubarak stays or not.

They are too brilliant & smart to lose.

Just to refresh on the History a bit -The Israel - Egypt peace treaty was signed in 1979 when Anwar Sadat was president. Even though Mubarak was VP since 1975 he took over the presidency only in 1981 after Sadat's assassination. The Egyptians signed the treaty after going to war with the Israelis in 1948,56,67,69 & 73 and every time they fought a War Egypt became smaller on the world map so finally Sadat decided that he wanted a country big enough to rule and signed the peace treaty
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