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Old 30th October 2007, 11:38   #31
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Originally Posted by appuchan View Post
Once you have these issues sorted out, you should not be having problems, unlike Windows which keeps crashing regularly and needs to be kept updated with latest patches and SPs.
There is only one difference between FUD disseminated against Linux and Microsoft. The latter is unpaid, voluntary service.

I design large enterprise level telephony software, many running on quad-processor Intel boxes with Win2003 R2 OS. These are mission critical applications, an hour of downtime will result in millions of dollars in losses and big law suits. If this rumour about windows crashing is true, I should have been out of business long time back.

This is late 2007, both Windows and Linux are mature operating systems now. One doesn't have to thrive by putting down the other. Just be happy with what you have.
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Old 30th October 2007, 19:25   #32
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But its not all rosy. If I wanted to connect my Nokia phone to the PC, I can do a 32MB download for windows, but for linux it will be a pain.

Which model?

You need gnokii to connect a mobile to the computer; and there other tools like gammu and wammu. Most models work fine with gnokii.
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Old 30th October 2007, 19:50   #33
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This is late 2007, both Windows and Linux are mature operating systems now. One doesn't have to thrive by putting down the other. Just be happy with what you have.
Though I hate to admit this, it's very true. I am pretty much *nix person and used to be heavily biased towards Linux (I still prefer a Linux box at home over Windows except for playing games). But, I have been using XP since last 4 years in office and it rarely has crashed. Company backbone servers are Windows servers again.

Having said that, one of my current clients is "all Fedora shop". They develop/sell an enterprise class network analysis application as their product and entire company (except their VP and couple of senior managers) uses Fedora. All their documents are created/modified/viewed in OpenOffice and they use evolution/thunderbird as their mail clients. All back-end server applications (wiki/squirrelmail etc.) run on Unix.

I have heard horror stories about drivers with Vista, which used to Achilles heel for Linux machines till recently.

In all, its all neck-to-neck these days and deciding factors would be personal liking, technical know-how of end users, availability of critical applications, cost etc.
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Old 30th October 2007, 20:03   #34
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Resurfacing this thread again. We are looking for a neat OS in our office which would serve the purpose of regular office work connecting to an in house server as well as a central server in delhi. The office is recommending only linux while some people are quite averse to this idea. Could someone tell me how much of a difference would it make between using windows vista or Red Hat linux 8 ? Would really appreciate some useful inputs here.
esteem_lover, 'linux' is only the kernel and not the whole operating system. So, what you need to look at is the particular version of particular application available with a distro, and verify if that matches your requirements / features. You also need to see if you require any special software in your organisation. You will need to select the distro which provides the highest common factor / version for the applications you need.

People in your office will be using applications like OpenOffice.org or Mozilla/Firefox most of the time; and I suggest you use Ubuntu on desktops and Debian "stable" for the servers. Ubuntu is based on debian (same source, compiled against latest libraries). Debian has a rock solid stability policy and I will assure that debian's "sid" aka "Unstable" is more stable that any version of RHEL.

If it is not a tooo large office (< 50 users), run the proxy, firewall, web browser LDAP (for authenticating users), file server, proxy/NAT, DNS, a chat application etc on the server. (I have in mind a box with something like 120GB level 1 raid and 2 GB RAM and two network cards). For bigger numbers, hive off some of the processes to another server and/or get a more powerful, multi-processor server.

Once a proper server is set up, for the new terminals, you can get diskless nodes for the - you can save on the hard disk costs and maintenance. (look up the LTSP project)

On the desktop, give users choice - there is more than one app for every purpose. They can use GNOME for the OSX like file; or KDE for a more traditional look. Processors with less power can use ICEWM.

Right now, the only problem you are likely to encounter are with the video display cards - NVIDIA and ATI. Of these, Nvidia has its own drivers, which are maintained by them, which means you need to get new drivers every time you upgrade your kernel. ATI has started releasing drivers under open source licenses; so you can forget the ATI bashing you are going to find when google for ATI's linux support.

Printer configuration (cupsys is the only print server which may fit your requirements) is another likely problem area. Check for printer compatibility. Most HP printers (except 1010 something - not sure) are supported; ditto for ALL dot matrix / linematrix / impact printers and most Epson printers. Not sure about others (Xerox and the like).

Last but not least, remember the adage - Linux is Free, not free. It is "Free" as in freedom; not "free" as in free perfumes and anti-skid mats. You will get most support free of cost; but do not hesitate to get commercial support when required.

You should also subscribe to the Chennai Linux users' group (I think it is called the Chennai LUG) mailing list at ilugc Info Page

Get back with any queries.
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Old 31st October 2007, 08:47   #35
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thanks tsk1979. i have pmed you already. I have also got myself a copy of RH Linux9 & hoping to get that installed in my computer today.
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Old 31st October 2007, 10:11   #36
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Why are you going the prehistoric route. For your computer use ubuntu.
Thats the best distro for newbies and it has drivers for almost everything.
Chennai lug will eagerly give you a copy.
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Old 31st October 2007, 10:22   #37
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Suppose you have a server running windows 2003 server edition. And about 25 computers. Of which 4 are macs already. Most users will use this computer for email (outlook type), office applications (Word, XL, PPT) and general non specialized work. Some of them run Tally - the accounting software.

We want to go only legal. Some of our IBM machines come with XP preinstalled. Some laptops and PCs dont. This means I have about 12-13 computers with no operating system, or a pirated XPSP2.

I have purchased XP home edition (since this is sufficient for our use) and a copy of MSoffice. But I realise these are single user applications so we're looking at spending about 12K (for office+windows) per computer.

My questions:

> Can computers in a mixed environment (some windows, some Linux some MacOS) run in harmony from a single windows based server?

> Can they share files and printers?

> As an application, does tally run on Linux? (I know the answer is prolly no, but I want to hear it from the experts)

Of course based on your anwer I will call my dealer and order 10 more copies of XP home edition. (I am averse to Vista and XP business edition costs 2.5K more than home edition)
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Old 31st October 2007, 11:11   #38
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Why are you going the prehistoric route. For your computer use ubuntu.
Hey tsk does the downloadable image from ubuntu website also acts as live cd?

I want to try ubuntu via live cd but I couldn't find anything saying Live CD download on their website.

Quote:
This means I have about 12-13 computers with no operating system, or a pirated XPSP2.
If you are buying computers from dealers (like HP, Dell etc) then in such case they can not sell you computer without operating system.
So many of these will sell you FreeDOS or similar Operating systems.
But they can not sell you computer with absolutely no OS on hard disk.

Quote:
But I realise these are single user applications so we're looking at spending about 12K (for office+windows) per computer.
Sam you have option of going for OEM edition of Windows which is relatively cheaper than Retail box.
You can buy OEM edition of Windows with new computer or any peice of hardware purchase makes you eligible for the same even purchasing a mouse or keyborad.

Also do note that with Windows XP Home edition you won't be getting Domain access. Same is case with Vista Home
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Old 31st October 2007, 12:17   #39
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If you want to spend most of your time typing -> Linux
If you want to spend most of your time clicking -> Windows

Either way, you get Carpel Tunnel Syndrome.
Now select your poison.
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Old 31st October 2007, 12:27   #40
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Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi View Post
Suppose you have a server running windows 2003 server edition. And about 25 computers. Of which 4 are macs already. Most users will use this computer for email (outlook type), office applications (Word, XL, PPT) and general non specialized work. Some of them run Tally - the accounting software.

We want to go only legal. Some of our IBM machines come with XP preinstalled. Some laptops and PCs dont. This means I have about 12-13 computers with no operating system, or a pirated XPSP2.

I have purchased XP home edition (since this is sufficient for our use) and a copy of MSoffice. But I realise these are single user applications so we're looking at spending about 12K (for office+windows) per computer.

My questions:

> Can computers in a mixed environment (some windows, some Linux some MacOS) run in harmony from a single windows based server?

> Can they share files and printers?

> As an application, does tally run on Linux? (I know the answer is prolly no, but I want to hear it from the experts)

Of course based on your anwer I will call my dealer and order 10 more copies of XP home edition. (I am averse to Vista and XP business edition costs 2.5K more than home edition)
1. Tally? Tally and linux is a problem that was solved long time back. Its easily run under wine. Running complex games under windows emulation in linux is a harder problem tough its not a problem in office environments
2. Mixed environment is easy. Linux understands samba shared. All linux protocols are open protocols. When you have a networked printing environment(read ethernet) printer is not an issue. IBM and HP offer excellent linux support on their hardware. Infact IBM actively pushes linux

You can easily install ubuntu on your laptops, and operate wireless and ethernet. Most advanced printing environents have printers as IP addresses.

The bigger question for you is that your admin is linux literate or not. If not then you go for XP. The cost of 10 XP licenses will be similar to the pains of getting a linux aware admin,

That said most of the big corporations(multi billion dollar houses) I have seen use a mixed environemt with laptops having Apple or Windows with a small percentage using linux, and the entire backbone(file servers etc.,) running linux, and the exchange server(which controls your mails/meeting etc.,) running windows.

So without going into whats good or whats bad(thats purely academic) for a business the question is
Is the pain of migrating from an existing setup to another setup justify the long term costs balance?
This can be a Linux to windows migration, or windows to linux migration.
A MS advocate will tell you "Windows cost is lower in the long run". A Linux advocate will tell you otherwise.
The fact is that both are wrong. It depends on business to business.
For a virgin office with no baggage, today linux makes more sense because of the freedom it offers. Linux is more about freedom. You are not caught in the license web on the upgrade path.
What windows offers is more easy, because in India people are familiar, and this leads to a faster ramp up.
So decide according to your needs, and how much you value freedom, how much are you willing to take pains for it.
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Old 31st October 2007, 12:34   #41
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Originally Posted by DCEite View Post
If you want to spend most of your time typing -> Linux
If you want to spend most of your time clicking -> Windows

Either way, you get Carpel Tunnel Syndrome.
Now select your poison.
This is again not true. I type a lot, but for my not savvy dad, just set ubuntu so its all totally clickable. Except the username/passwds..
The carpal tunnel part is spot on, tho
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Old 31st October 2007, 12:34   #42
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Tally and linux is a problem that was solved long time back. Its easily run under wine.
Sir, we do not encourage our staff to drink on the job.
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Old 31st October 2007, 12:35   #43
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Originally Posted by adya33 View Post
Hey tsk does the downloadable image from ubuntu website also acts as live cd?
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCD
Quote:
If you are buying computers from dealers (like HP, Dell etc) then in such case they can not sell you computer without operating system.
So many of these will sell you FreeDOS or similar Operating systems.
But they can not sell you computer with absolutely no OS on hard disk.

Sam you have option of going for OEM edition of Windows which is relatively cheaper than Retail box.
You can buy OEM edition of Windows with new computer or any peice of hardware purchase makes you eligible for the same even purchasing a mouse or keyborad.

Also do note that with Windows XP Home edition you won't be getting Domain access. Same is case with Vista Home
Umm you can get linux preinstalled machines from most vendors now, including dell.
In the US if you buy a windows preinstalled laptop, and then say "no" to the EULA, you are entitled to get a refund for windows. This is the law.
The freedos alternative was for such a system. Do not want an OS, get freedos and then you can wipe your hdd clean and install whatever you want.

As for OEM edition, it is supposed to be sold with hardware and should match the tag on that hardware. Many dealers sell OEM edition instead of normal edition because they want to save money. But thats illegal.
Also installing OEM edition again and again(lets say your hardware fails) or when you change your graphics card, is fraught with all sorts of problems.
For example I upgraded the motherboard on my home desktop. MY licensed copy of XP home which was actually legal and not pirated did not activate(I was not aware of this oem business).
I called up the MS helpline and spoke to them.
The customer support was excellent, and they said no problem and they activated my installation.
It cost me close to 3000rs.
I spent 3000rs because I wanted to play need for speed and half life(which is my favorite game).
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Old 31st October 2007, 12:37   #44
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Sir, we do not encourage our staff to drink on the job.
You should look at the Germans, they drink on the job and make Porsche, BMW and Mercedes. Think of the things your staff can do if they start wine, which stands for
Wine.Is.Not.an.Emulator
Its called recursive abbrevation and for some reason Open source folks seem to be obsessed with it.
For example GNU stand for Gnu.is.Not.Unix
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Old 31st October 2007, 12:41   #45
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Originally Posted by adya33 View Post
Also do note that with Windows XP Home edition you won't be getting Domain access. Same is case with Vista Home
I have no idea what this means. Please someone elaborate before i buy 10 copies of XP home and realise they are useless for my office.
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