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Old 17th March 2011, 16:17   #16
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Default Re: Japanese Nuclear Energy Situation

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I can't get your point CPH.... are you saying
1. Bankers caused Earthquake?
2. Bankers knew earthquake was going to happen and planned everything for the past few years to get things to this level
3. Bankers caused the earthquake, but politicians caused Tsunami due to hot air their empty words produced?
4. You mention bribes also. Did somebody bribe some demons or something.I guess we need to do exorcism rituals then
Don't get how you come to this conclusion?

Where did I made the slightest mention of who caused the earth quake?
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Old 17th March 2011, 16:29   #17
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Default Re: Japanese Nuclear Energy Situation

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Fact is that the design has flaws. Fact is that the eart quake (as have others has put stresses) on the structure. Fact is that some people are out there frantically trying to solve the problems risking their lives and health. Fact is that these reactors are finished, which begs the question why bothering and not just letting the meltdown happen since this should be possible without any safety risks!

The conclusion is that obviously things are no alright because of to much bribing and corruption going on. And this finally leads to the questions you have raised as a logical conclusion:

How safe are all the other installations? And how much longer do we let the responsible people get away with it. When do we show that we are not taking anymore? This regardless whether it is a nuclear power plant, a hydro electric plant, a war that is manufactured or projects that have no other value than making someonme corrupt any richer!
Oh, take a chill pill mate!

The reactors are already potential sources of radiation. If they aren't controlled now, the situation will only worsen. From where did you get the idea to let them meltdown since it was safe??

Things aren't alright because of the quake and the tsunami. The meltdown of the reactors wasn't due to bribes.

The other parts of your post, IMO, have nothing to do with the nuclear situation in Japan, so it's best not to comment on it.
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Old 17th March 2011, 17:24   #18
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Default Re: Japanese Nuclear Energy Situation

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Oh, take a chill pill mate!

The reactors are already potential sources of radiation. If they aren't controlled now, the situation will only worsen. From where did you get the idea to let them meltdown since it was safe??

Things aren't alright because of the quake and the tsunami. The meltdown of the reactors wasn't due to bribes.

The other parts of your post, IMO, have nothing to do with the nuclear situation in Japan, so it's best not to comment on it.
I begin to wonder whether you guys read properly.

The whole idea of the steel core and the additional concrete/steel structure as well as the general design is to make sure that a melt down is safe.

Thnree of the scientist developing the reactor dropped out at one point because their safety standards were not met. Still, the design was pushed further. Three years agao a Japanaese scientist warned about this going to happen in the near future.

despite Chernobyl not being an accident, the engineers palying with the ractor lost control bec ause the safety procedures were not adhered to and in due corse the reactor went up. All other incidents that happened all over the world were due to procedures not kept for financial gain, safety certificates being faked etc. Read the reports of the commssion that had to investigate.

The other points, which you mentioned are not in any way related to it are of a relevance and are related. Better organisation on all levels would have makde sure that the plant still would be running.

Crisis management starts a long time before a crisis occurs. There is enough experience around to prepare and prevent.

The reality is that corruption is at the core of the problem and not the technology at hand.

People in these days seem to chop off the tail of the snake and then wonder why they get bitten. Chop off the head of the snake and the rest will die without biting.
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Old 17th March 2011, 17:46   #19
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Default Re: Japanese Nuclear Energy Situation

This tragedy should not have happened. We all agree. But now that the "never happen" has happened, I am pondering what if ..

What if this tragedy played out before the Nuclear bill was passed a few months back? Or if the Nuclear bill was still pending in Parliament today? How would the events (have) play(ed) out differently in India? What is India's energy future with and without Nuclear Energy and how will this event impact it?

Please pull out your Crystal Balls guys (Careful ... don't smash them )

--Ragul

Last edited by Ragul : 17th March 2011 at 17:49.
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Old 17th March 2011, 18:52   #20
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Default Re: Japanese Nuclear Energy Situation

My prayers for the Fukushima 50 who are working tirelessly to ease the situation.
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Old 17th March 2011, 19:16   #21
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Default Re: Japanese Nuclear Energy Situation

Some updates from various news sites this morning (Thursday, March 17, 2011 at 9:30 AM EDT):

From NBC, msnbc.com and news services:
US charters planes to help citizens flee Japan - World news - Asia-Pacific - msnbc.com
US charters planes to help its citizens leave Japan
The U.S. authorized the first evacuations of Americans out of Japan and warned U.S. citizens to defer all non-essential travel to any part of the country as unpredictable weather and wind conditions risked spreading radioactive contamination.
France has advised its citizens in Japan to get out or head to southern Japan. The French embassy in Tokyo said it had asked Air France to prepare planes for the evacuation of French nationals from Japan.
U.S. and Japan disagreeing?
But the alliance looked likely to be strained, with the U.S. taking more dramatic safety precautions than Japan and issuing dire warnings that contradicted Japan's more upbeat assessments.

From abc news:
Japan Nuclear Crisis: Helicopters Operation to Cool Fukushima Nuclear Reactors, Fuel Ponds Suspended - ABC News
Japan Nuclear Crisis: Helicopter Operation Suspended
Japanese officials suspended helicopter flights spraying water over Japan's troubled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant due to high radiation levels, the latest foiled attempt to contain the nuclear crisis.

From HAARETZ.com:
IAEA chief: Japan nuclear situation 'very serious', but too soon to say out of control - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News
IAEA chief: Japan nuclear situation 'very serious', but too soon to say out of control
Nevertheless, with workers engaged in an-all out effort to stabilize the situation, Amano stressed that "it is not the time to say that things are out of control."

From Forbes:
Update on Japan's nuclear crisis - Forbes.com
Update on Japan's nuclear crisis
In an encouraging development, crews were finishing laying a new cable to supply more reliable electricity to motors, valves and pumps needed to keep reactors cool.

From Guardian.co.uk
Japan begins water drop on stricken reactor | World news | guardian.co.uk
Japan begins water drop on stricken reactor
Elevated - though not hazardous - levels of radiation have been detected well outside the Fukushima evacuation zone. In Ibaraki prefecture to the south, officials said radiation levels were about 300 times normal levels by late Wednesday morning.
It would take three years of constant exposure to these higher levels to raise a person's risk of cancer.

From Wall Street Journal:
GLOBAL MARKETS: European Stocks Led Higher By Resources - WSJ.com
GLOBAL MARKETS: European Stocks Led Higher By Resources
Japanese yen weakened, after touching its strongest level ever against the dollar, on talk of currency market intervention by the Japanese authorities. German bunds and the gold price were lower early in the European day, while oil prices were firmer.
On Wall Street overnight, stocks plunged on worries that Japan's nuclear crisis would end in reactor meltdowns and a radiation catastrophe.


God bless our world!
I don't know if prayers work, but I am constantly praying. For the people, children and animals who don't deserve to suffer. No one deserves to suffer!

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My prayers for the Fukushima 50 who are working tirelessly to ease the situation.
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Old 17th March 2011, 19:18   #22
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Default Re: Japanese Nuclear Energy Situation

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Originally Posted by Blue Thunder View Post
ummm....why the smilie for this thread? I thought this was a sensitive/serious issue ??
I looked at the smiley again and realized, I was way too careless while using it.

My apologies to all of you.

Last edited by Rehaan : 22nd March 2011 at 12:53. Reason: FYI : I have changed the icon for this thread to something more relevant.
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Old 17th March 2011, 19:21   #23
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Default Re: Japanese Nuclear Energy Situation

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Originally Posted by Ragul View Post
This tragedy should not have happened. We all agree. But now that the "never happen" has happened, I am pondering what if ..

What if this tragedy played out before the Nuclear bill was passed a few months back? Or if the Nuclear bill was still pending in Parliament today? How would the events (have) play(ed) out differently in India? What is India's energy future with and without Nuclear Energy and how will this event impact it?

Please pull out your Crystal Balls guys (Careful ... don't smash them )

--Ragul
This is the point. And let us hold the ones accountable that are responsible for the failures. Moaning (not pointing my finger at you) is no way forward. The law is not enough. The people have to enforce the law. And we are the people. The people of Tunesia have recognised it. And they acted. What are we going to do? Lament or act?

Holding great speeches about the 50 people trying to save the situation is no good. Getting up and going against the ones that exploit them is what would be good.

None of the 50 people out there is anyone who pocketed millions for the failures they produced.

They are laughing while others fighting to get things sorted and even are willing to die for it. And while they are laughing they happily spend lots of money. But not a penny for the ones suffering.

And if they should get through things unscaved they will continue the very same way till the next disaster strikes and blame it all on the earth quake. The story was before that nobody could have expect anything like this and the story continues like it. And when people point out that this is going to come then they are rediculed or all is conspiracy theory.

What was the sacrifice of the 50 fighters for then?
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Old 17th March 2011, 19:29   #24
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Default Re: Japanese Nuclear Energy Situation

Here is an "assurance" from Indian quarters

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India has 20 nuclear power reactors, out of which only two at Tarapur are boiling water reactors of the type at the Japan's Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant, where three of its six reactors were hit by explosions and a fourth caught fire after the tsunami led to power failure and damage of generators that closed the plant cooling system.

After the explosions took place, there have been apprehensions also about the integrity of the stored spent fuel rods damaged by fire.

Indian officials said there was not much worry of a similar situation arising in India, given the different designs of its nuclear reactors and dissimilar storage of spent fuel. Not only are most nuclear reactors here not boiling water reactors but also the boiling water reactor plants like Tarapur have passive cooling features built in, given the erratic power supply situation of the country.

A close monitoring of the events in Japan has found that the blasts at the Fukushima Daiichi plant happened after hydrogen and steam were separated and chemically reacted with the metal. With the metal oxidised, hydrogen was released as part of the chemical reaction, causing explosions. Some fuel elements lost integrity and released radioactive products.

None of the nuclear reactors in India fall in Zone 5, the most dangerous level of seismic activity. Barring Narora, which is in seismic Zone 4 and therefore has much higher safety standards, most reactors are in Zone 2.

Jaitapur, the site of a proposed nuclear power plant in India, is in Zone 3, and not prone to any major seismic activity. Japan virtually sits on the Sumatran fault, making it highly prone to powerful quakes. The epicentre of the quake in Japan was barely 130 km away from the affected areas.
The article goes on to assure the reader that the specific failure modes for the JP type of reactors would not occur with Indian ones. But omits to list what other kind of failure modes can happen that are specific to our type of reactors ...

Very clever.

--Ragul

Last edited by Ragul : 17th March 2011 at 19:32.
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