ICE for Phoenix

[low_bass_makker]

Originally Posted by faithless_1984

Arrre am Not a complete noob , itna pata hai.

Oh ,after reading your post i thought you meant that the whole install is of that particular brand...so i got confused.

So visit this section often so that you can also become a expert ...Chalo you understood in a single post, good..

[razor4077]

Did a bit of tuning today, and got the tweeters fitted. Sounds pretty darn good! Not too bright, not too boomy.... just the way I wanted it. Thanks to Wimwian for helping me out with the tuning.

@LBM: I tried with the woofer facing outwards, but the bass was making the boot rattle a lot. This way isn't too bad. I guess I'll have it like this until I can afford to get the boot damped :P

Illusion compos sound very nice. Not too bright... pretty smooth. Personally preferred it over some of the other brands I heard.

[low_bass_makker]

Hmm then wait for the damping to be done. and try different placement of the sub and check which you like the best...

Also Illusion are said to laid back and smooth sounding and this type of sound is liked by many on this forum.

[drumster]

Superb stuff How do you manage to find people can carry out so much work with precision? Here in Bombay all the people i have found to date are dumbasses...

[razor4077]

Originally Posted by drumster

Superb stuff How do you manage to find people can carry out so much work with precision? Here in Bombay all the people i have found to date are dumbasses...

Dunno about the dumasses bit dude. There are quite a few good ICE installers in Bombay. Hunt around in the ICE section... am sure you'll find some suggestions.

In any case, my work was done in Calcutta at a shop called Glix. I ordered the Illusion Audio speakers from Bombay.

[razor4077]

Originally Posted by reignofchaos

Where are the tweeters for the front components?

Fitted on the RVM pods. You can see one of them in this pic:
Picasa Web Albums - Pratik - Phoenix

[DerAlte]

Originally Posted by razor4077

Fitted on the RVM pods. You can see one of them in this pic:
Picasa Web Albums - Pratik - Phoenix

The tweeters seem to be firing at each other, instead of being angled towards the middle of the opposite front windows. The effective treble sound for the ears would be more subdued than just "laid-back".

Perhaps the installer missed using the angled mount that would have come with the tweeters?

Your ride looks awesome - has the sleek sinister Mafiosi look to it!

[Bass&Trouble]

Originally Posted by DerAlte

The tweeters seem to be firing at each other, instead of being angled towards the middle of the opposite front windows. The effective treble sound for the ears would be more subdued than just "laid-back".

The swivel cups with the collar would have looked rather awkward there. It could be used if he were to flush mount the tweeters in the door pads.

The tweeters are domes, they have a good off-axis response, and the listener will not be over 45 degrees off axis from the farther tweeter where the drop would be maximum owing to the large distance. Tweeters aiming upwards would be a sure disaster. Plus, the tweeters end up being closer to the listener than the midwoofers, so it is automatic attenuation, in a way.

[DerAlte]

Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble

The tweeters are domes, they have a good off-axis response, and the listener will not be over 45 degrees off axis from the farther tweeter where the drop would be maximum owing to the large distance. Tweeters aiming upwards would be a sure disaster. Plus, the tweeters end up being closer to the listener than the midwoofers, so it is automatic attenuation, in a way.

Correct, @B&T, but instinctively this didn't look right.

Because (I am quoting without actual measurement, apologies!) mounted on the ORVM panel, 45 degrees from that point would be somewhere near the gear stick or thereabouts. The left tweeter would be OK, but for the right tweeter the listener would be quite "behind" the 45 degrees line.

That just *may* affect. But then, since the sound stage is much more than the axis orientation of the drivers (what with all reflections and interference intersections) it would not be comparable with, say, the swivel pod ORVM panel tweeter mounting in the Safari EX. (All the drivers are tilted slightly towards the rear in Safari. The mid-bass drivers in the door are also tilted towards the ceiling)

[Bass&Trouble]

Originally Posted by DerAlte

Correct, @B&T, but instinctively this didn't look right.

Because (I am quoting without actual measurement, apologies!) mounted on the ORVM panel, 45 degrees from that point would be somewhere near the gear stick or thereabouts. The left tweeter would be OK, but for the right tweeter the listener would be quite "behind" the 45 degrees line.

That just *may* affect. But then, since the sound stage is much more than the axis orientation of the drivers (what with all reflections and interference intersections) it would not be comparable with, say, the swivel pod ORVM panel tweeter mounting in the Safari EX. (All the drivers are tilted slightly towards the rear in Safari. The mid-bass drivers in the door are also tilted towards the ceiling)

True, it would seem that way, but it doesnt matter. So long as the off axis response of the tweeter closely mirrors the on axis response, but at a lower output level. Reflections et al, are surely a whole different thing, the reason why I dont like tweeters placed in the crevice formed by the dash and the front windshield.

In our Wagon R we had a 6.5" Illusion component set installed, and one fine day, we decided to change it to a coaxial from the same range. Since the tweeter and crossover were installed on the door pad, we let them be, and just changed the 6.5" driver to the 6.5" coax model. The crossover and tweeter were of course bypassed, but still in place. One of our audio gurus happened to drop by that day for a listening, and he quite appreciated the elevated and well laid out front soundstage the system was producing. I'm citing this example, since in this case, the tweeters are installed at the bottom of the doors in rings after cutting out a part of the door pocket. Thus, the nearer tweeter is nearly 75 degrees off axis to the listener. When I told the guru that it was just a coaxial set and the component tweeters installed higher up in the door pads are just dummies, he could hardly believe it. He thought I was pulling off a major con job on him.

[navin]

Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble

One of our audio gurus happened to drop by that day for a listening, and he quite appreciated the elevated and well laid out front soundstage the system was producing.

if that is me you are refering to you must know I never professed to be a guru. just the ICE mod.

[Bass&Trouble]

Originally Posted by navin

if that is me you are refering to you must know I never professed to be a guru. just the ICE mod.

It WAS an ICE guru, that much I can confirm. The person never professed it, such titles are conferred.

[DerAlte]

Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble

Reflections et al, are surely a whole different thing, the reason why I dont like tweeters placed in the crevice formed by the dash and the front windshield.

I am able vaguely visualize w.r.t. off-axis response, but... Why would you not recommend that? Would bottom of A-pllar not be the same location type?

Navin had mentioned "smearing" somewhere as one of the reasons.

But, some manufacturer (don't remember which) was professing mounting dome extended-midrange-response tweeters (1 pair for driver and another for passenger) exactly in that crevice facing the windshield for individual front imaging for driver and passenger. There is a graphic on their website explaining that.

Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble

the elevated and well laid out front soundstage the system was producing

Would elevated mean that "the sound stage appears to be above head height when seated"?

I have that feeling in the Safari EX with the stock (HT according to you) speakers, locations and orientation, and that leads me to the question: What control do we have on the apparent elevation of the sound stage? What are the parameters that affect it?

[Bass&Trouble]

Originally Posted by DerAlte

I am able vaguely visualize w.r.t. off-axis response, but... Why would you not recommend that? Would bottom of A-pllar not be the same location type?

Navin had mentioned "smearing" somewhere as one of the reasons.

I should have specified, I meant with the tweeter pointing upwards. So as to avoid reflections and scattering; maybe the same thing as Navin's smearing.

Originally Posted by DerAlte

But, some manufacturer (don't remember which) was professing mounting dome extended-midrange-response tweeters (1 pair for driver and another for passenger) exactly in that crevice facing the windshield for individual front imaging for driver and passenger. There is a graphic on their website explaining that.

Must be Bose. Just kidding.

Using a pair? Is it a stereo pair?

Originally Posted by DerAlte

Would elevated mean that "the sound stage appears to be above head height when seated"?

Yup, at a height and distance of 15 feet. The singer should appear to be perched atop the truck ahead of you.

Higher relative to the locations of the drivers?

Originally Posted by DerAlte

I have that feeling in the Safari EX with the stock (HT according to you) speakers, locations and orientation, and that leads me to the question: What control do we have on the apparent elevation of the sound stage? What are the parameters that affect it?

HT?

If I were to guess: configuration, positioning/ aiming, frequency responses of the various drivers, crossover cut-off frequencies, and the aid of electronic tools that help correct distance/ time related anomalies?

[razor4077]

Wow... that's some impressive technical jargon! Managed to follow the first two, then it sorta went over my head!

@DerAlte: I know this is not the 'ideal' setup, in that the tweeters don't point to the occupant on the other side, but I am actually happy about this arrangement and the sound isn't subdued at all. If changing the tweeter directions make them 'brighter' then I prefer them this way.

Having said that, I'll let the gurus carry on with their debate.