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Old 4th May 2011, 12:02   #61
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Default Re: Heavy rain, blinkers on; how do you signal lane change?

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Originally Posted by sadnabrina View Post
...The tail lamps are feeble because they are never cleaned. The thick layer of dirt on the light results in poor visibility. We need to spend effort to educate these fellows on the importance of keeping the lights clean.
Truckers in India keep their lights very clean. Ask any highway tourer. Most of them would agree that by and large truckers have good highway manners. It is those pesky inter-city taxis, two-wheelers and cyclists that create most of the havoc.

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But why in the first place would the vehicle in front need to "say" that it is safe to overtake. The vehicle in the rear is the sole responsible party in an overtake and must ensure that the road is clear in front before overtaking...
The vehicle in the front need not 'say' it is safe to overtake. It is merely signalling to the vehicles behind that they may overtake whenever they deem it fit. By using the right turn signal, the trucker is telling the vehicle behind that he has no intention of going any faster and is giving way to overtake. This is important. There are instances when truckers swerve to the right of the road when they are overtaking a two-wheeler. By using the right turn indicator, the trucker is signalling that he is not going to swerve.
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Old 4th May 2011, 12:02   #62
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Default Re: Heavy rain, blinkers on; how do you signal lane change?

Aah, that practice of using a right indicator to signal you are free to overtake safely.
While i feel it is nice of the trucker to do so, what if he wants to take a right turn and you mistakenly think he is offering you a chance to safely overtake?
I feel if one has to use such indicator signals on a single laned highway, then why not use the left one. This will indicate that the trucker is going to stick on the left side, and you are free to overtake on the right.
Not that i am saying we should be using this indicator method at all. But since it's an old Indian practice, don't you feel using the left indicator is a wiser option?
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Old 4th May 2011, 12:05   #63
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Default Re: Heavy rain, blinkers on; how do you signal lane change?

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Originally Posted by lucifer1881 View Post
By using the right turn signal, the trucker is telling the vehicle behind that he has no intention of going any faster and is giving way to overtake. This is important. There are instances when truckers swerve to the right of the road when they are overtaking a two-wheeler. By using the right turn indicator, the trucker is signalling that he is not going to swerve.
I find this so counterintuitive. Using the right turn/lane change indicator to "say" that I don;t want to change lanes now.
After driving for at least 1 lakh KM on Indian highways, I still find this practice unacceptable.

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Originally Posted by mdsaab View Post
Aah, that practice of using a right indicator to signal you are free to overtake safely.
While i feel it is nice of the trucker to do so, what if he wants to take a right turn and you mistakenly think he is offering you a chance to safely overtake?
I feel if one has to use such indicator signals on a single laned highway, then why not use the left one. This will indicate that the trucker is going to stick on the left side, and you are free to overtake on the right.
Not that i am saying we should be using this indicator method at all. But since it's an old Indian practice, don't you feel using the left indicator is a wiser option?
That is a better idea.

Last edited by sadnabrina : 4th May 2011 at 12:08.
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Old 4th May 2011, 15:03   #64
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Default Re: Heavy rain, blinkers on; how do you signal lane change?

There was a time truckers had my respect on the highways for following the traffic rules. But recently almost all the trucks I have seen have got their rear lights out of order. That's one basic safety rule flouted by them all.

Secondly as I read the MVA, the vehicle being overtaken simply has to ensure it does not prevent the overtaking vehicle. The law does not mandate if the vehicle being overtaken should signal its consent/dissent in any way. So using the right indicator to indicate consent for overtaking has no legal basis and is outright wrong and dangerous.
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Old 4th May 2011, 15:10   #65
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Default Re: Heavy rain, blinkers on; how do you signal lane change?

During my recent vacation to the North (and in a rented car), I observed both my driver and other vehicles on the road giving the right indicator for a couple of seconds to signal 'safe to overtake' .

Since this requires deliberate and conscious actions on the front drivers part, it should serve as a good signal to trailing vehicle.

Of course, leading vehicle giving the left signal (even for couple of seconds) would serve the purpose too!
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Old 4th May 2011, 15:17   #66
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Default Re: Heavy rain, blinkers on; how do you signal lane change?

Source :Automotive lighting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia





Also called "hazards", "hazard warning flashers", "hazard warning lights", "4-way flashers", or simply "flashers". International regulations require vehicles to be equipped with a control which, when activated, flashes the left and right directional signals, front and rear, all at the same time and in phase.[5][15] This function is meant to be used to indicate a hazard such as a vehicle stopped in or alongside moving traffic, a disabled vehicle, an exceptionally slow-moving vehicle (including, for example, trucks climbing steep grades on Canadian expressways), or the presence of stopped/slow moving traffic ahead on a high speed road. Some people are known to use them in severe fog conditions, or simply when the vehicle has become a traffic hazard. Operation of the hazard flashers must be from a control independent of the turn signal control, and audiovisual telltale must be provided to the driver. In vehicles with a separate left and right green turn signal indicator on the dashboard, both left and right indicators may flash to provide visual indication of the hazard flashers' operation. In some cases, when the driver that has his/her hazard signal ON, and uses the indicator to switch lanes or turn, other road users won't know that the vehicle is switching lanes or turning and therefore causes danger. In vehicles with a single green turn signal indicator on the dashboard, a separate red indicator light must be provided for hazard flasher indication
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Old 4th May 2011, 15:27   #67
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Default Re: Heavy rain, blinkers on; how do you signal lane change?

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Originally Posted by honeybee View Post
...Secondly as I read the MVA, the vehicle being overtaken simply has to ensure it does not prevent the overtaking vehicle. The law does not mandate if the vehicle being overtaken should signal its consent/dissent in any way. So using the right indicator to indicate consent for overtaking has no legal basis and is outright wrong and dangerous.
The turn indicator is simply used to indicate to the vehicle behind that the vehicle in the front is not intending to prevent overtaking. The law does not mandate it. But it is good road sense to communicate with fellow road users. The law does not mandate many things, e.g. shaving your head. But doing those things, e.g. shaving your head, does not make them wrong.

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Originally Posted by mmxylorider View Post
...Of course, leading vehicle giving the left signal (even for couple of seconds) would serve the purpose too!
The left turn signal is used to signal that the vehicle is pulling over to the side of the road.
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Old 4th May 2011, 15:37   #68
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Default Re: Heavy rain, blinkers on; how do you signal lane change?

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Originally Posted by lucifer1881 View Post

The left turn signal is used to signal that the vehicle is pulling over to the side of the road.
It is OK mate we get your point that YOU THINK that it is OK to turn on right turn signal to indicate that the vehicle behind is ready to overtake.

At the same time there are many others, who think that right signal is to indicate he is pulling over to right (like you think left indicator is for pulling to left).

I get your anxiety about the necessity of the longer vehicles to be able to communicate with the vehicle behind that it is OK to overtake them, but a general consensus is that using the right indicator is wrong.

So while the intention is good, implementation is wrong. While people are arguing about implementaion you are defending the intention (which incidentally no one is questioning). I hope you got what I am intending to say!
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Old 4th May 2011, 15:50   #69
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Default Re: Heavy rain, blinkers on; how do you signal lane change?

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Originally Posted by anilisanil View Post
...a general consensus is that using the right indicator is wrong...
Phew, this is getting quite heated .

The point I am trying to make is that it is not as black and white as right and wrong. Those who are regular highway drivers know our highway conventions, understand them, and use them. In fact, we are quite thankful when truckers indicate to us that they are letting us pass. Makes overtaking that much easier. Those who are not-so-regular on the highway, should put in some effort in learning our road conventions.

It is far more practical for an individual to learn road conventions than expect everyone else to follow what he / she believes is right.
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Old 4th May 2011, 16:10   #70
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Default Re: Heavy rain, blinkers on; how do you signal lane change?

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Originally Posted by lucifer1881 View Post
Phew, this is getting quite heated .


It is far more practical for an individual to learn road conventions than expect everyone else to follow what he / she believes is right.
Engines work better when they get "heated" up, don't they?


Quoting GB Shaw- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.

Leaving behind what is right or wrong, just because majority does it, we need not follow it. People who commented here about the counter intuitiveness of this practice are the ones who did lakhs of kms on highways.

I am not saying it is a bad practice, but we are just discussing how a wrong convention catches up followers and becomes a practice be it hazard lights in tunnels or right indicators as over taking signals. We discussing here does not annihilate it, but at least people get to know that it is indeed a wrong practice that just caught up.

In fact, through this forum I educated at least three people who thought that Hazard lights are to indicate that a vehicle is going straight!

Last edited by anilisanil : 4th May 2011 at 16:20.
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Old 4th May 2011, 16:27   #71
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Default Re: Heavy rain, blinkers on; how do you signal lane change?

As I look at it, there are at least 3 choices
1. Stick behind the leading vehicle till you reach your destination or you get a two lane carriageway.
2. Keep jutting out into incoming lane to see if any vehicle is approaching or not, and if it is safe to overtake the leading vehicle. All this while hoping the vehicle in front does not get similar ideas for his situation
3. Get a courtesy signal from leading vehicle to overtake it at earliest opportunity.

I will take # 3. Thank you.

p.s. just read Anil's post. I don't switch on blinkers in tunnels, but do give 2-3 second right indicator on single lane roads to vehicles behind. If they understand - good. If not, does not matter.

Last edited by mmxylorider : 4th May 2011 at 16:30.
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Old 4th May 2011, 19:53   #72
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Default Re: Heavy rain, blinkers on; how do you signal lane change?

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Originally Posted by mmxylorider View Post
As I look at it, there are at least 3 choices
1. Stick behind the leading vehicle till you reach your destination or you get a two lane carriageway.
2. Keep jutting out into incoming lane to see if any vehicle is approaching or not, and if it is safe to overtake the leading vehicle. All this while hoping the vehicle in front does not get similar ideas for his situation
3. Get a courtesy signal from leading vehicle to overtake it at earliest opportunity.

I will take # 3. Thank you.

p.s. just read Anil's post. I don't switch on blinkers in tunnels, but do give 2-3 second right indicator on single lane roads to vehicles behind. If they understand - good. If not, does not matter.
And I will take a million dollars. Thank you.

While we keep wondering about how western countries (and some eastern countries like Japan) have a high level of efficiency and low traffic troubles/deaths, we conveniently ignore that they give up a lot of freedom that we like to take, at the slightest opportunity.

Given your situation above, if it's a single lane one-way, I would stay behind the truck until there is enough visibility for me to see for myself that I can overtake. Not honking, not flashing and not jutting in and out of the lane is considered courtesy. But let's ignore that for now. What some of us are trying to emphasize here is not following conventions that help us in the short term, but destroy the whole system in the long run.

There is now a convention to stop at a traffic light even if you have a green because a moron (almost certainly) would be crossing in the other direction where it's red. Yes, it helps everybody, and helps avoid accidents. But causes traffic jams in the long run.
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Old 4th May 2011, 20:11   #73
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Default Re: Heavy rain, blinkers on; how do you signal lane change?

As long as a convention is not an obligation and makes it safer for all concerned, I see no harm in following those.

I am not sure if it's the law per DDS in US, but isn't one flash of the light is what one does to allow someone to change lanes in traffic? Isn't that making the lane change safer?
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Old 4th May 2011, 20:27   #74
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Default Re: Heavy rain, blinkers on; how do you signal lane change?

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As long as a convention is not an obligation and makes it safer for all concerned, I see no harm in following those.

I am not sure if it's the law per DDS in US, but isn't one flash of the light is what one does to allow someone to change lanes in traffic? Isn't that making the lane change safer?
I just described the harm done by conventions made randomly.

No, when you are being overtaken, you don't have to do anything, by law or by convention. It's the responsibility of the person overtaking to not make a move until he is sure he can make it, and he has given his indicator for a while.

The flash is usually given when you have a right of way, but allow other to go ahead recognizing an unusual position (blocked traffic, the other person waiting for too long etc). This is completely out of courtesy and you can be ticketed if you misunderstand the signal, causing a confusion or a crash.

Last edited by vivekiny2k : 4th May 2011 at 20:28.
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Old 4th May 2011, 21:27   #75
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Default Re: Heavy rain, blinkers on; how do you signal lane change?

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Originally Posted by vina View Post
I'm confused - in case of visibility so reduced that many people feel compelled to turn on blinker (wisely or not) why would anybody want to drive at 50kmph in any lane?
Well, the number is not important. It means slower than expected in that lane. And why would anybody? This is India! It's difficult to explain some things, for example the truckers' right indicator to allow an overtake.

Last edited by nileshch : 4th May 2011 at 21:28.
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