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Old 27th March 2012, 08:50   #1111
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Default Re: Pune : Roads, traffic conditions, route queries and other assorted rants.

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Originally Posted by Monaro CV8 View Post
^^
@ani_meher:
Now that, IMO is very judgmental.
The first instinct of anyone behind a wheel or behind the handle-bar of a two wheeler is to avoid (or swerve) obstacles suddenly appearing/ falling, right in front of the vehicle. be it a baby, a helmet or a dinosaur.

It is very easy to infer from a situation when reading, but one is not sure of the exact incident that happened.
The first instinct of anyone facing an imminent collision is to slam the brakes, not swerve or even try to steer out of it. This tendency is known as Target Fixation. Most 2 wheeler riders regardless of whether they ride a bicycle or a Hayabusa fall prey to it unless they are specifically taught how to avoid doing it.

Secondly, most vehicles on our roads do not have ABS, doesn't matter if they are from the 80s or 2012. If you want to brake hard, check your mirrors. Kevin was lucky Mr.B behind was on a bike and not an Indicab which would have caused much more damage. As a rule, if your sudden braking maneuver isn't going to save a life, please try to avoid doing it as much as possible. Because you trying to save that *hypothetical* vegetable basket may lead to someone losing his/her life.
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Old 27th March 2012, 09:35   #1112
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Default Re: Pune : Roads, traffic conditions, route queries and other assorted rants.

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Originally Posted by antz.bin View Post
The first instinct of anyone facing an imminent collision is to slam the brakes, not swerve or even try to steer out of it. This tendency is known as Target Fixation. Most 2 wheeler riders regardless of whether they ride a bicycle or a Hayabusa fall prey to it unless they are specifically taught how to avoid doing it.

Secondly, most vehicles on our roads do not have ABS, doesn't matter if they are from the 80s or 2012. If you want to brake hard, check your mirrors. Kevin was lucky Mr.B behind was on a bike and not an Indicab which would have caused much more damage. As a rule, if your sudden braking maneuver isn't going to save a life, please try to avoid doing it as much as possible. Because you trying to save that *hypothetical* vegetable basket may lead to someone losing his/her life.
Please please please read my first post carefully!!!!

It was an almost open stretch of road. One Dhobhi on a bike 500 mtrs ahead finally 150 mtrs ahead, and another guy at the back, 500 mtrs away.

If Mr. B was not able to stop when seeing the brake lights 'on' 500 mtrs away, there is surely something wrong with his brakes.

Coming back to the open road... That is the reason is swerved / turned away.. why do i need to hit something when i have all the space in the world to avoid it?? When finally i couldn't avoid it and it was just too risky being on the opposite side of the road, open to oncoming traffic (if any) I braked and i braked hard!

Please guys stop analyzing situations that you have not been in, my whole point was to laugh at Mr. A, who, being the reason for this whole rigmarole, coolly picked up his helmet dusted it, wore it and walked away!!! the humour in this is all i wanted to portray!
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Old 27th March 2012, 10:46   #1113
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Default Re: Pune : Roads, traffic conditions, route queries and other assorted rants.

Why are we arguing about sudden braking and swerving?
By what I've read, I didnt find anything wrong that Kevin did. Rather, his actions were absolutely justifiable.

If anyone has to be blamed, its the dhobi carrying the helmet. Then, blame the biker that was almost tailgating (?) Kevin. Had that biker rear ended Kevin, it wouldve been the bikers fault, and his fault only.

In any situation, the one who rear ends is at fault. Regardless of the braking ability of the vehicle in question. No two ways about that.
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Old 27th March 2012, 10:54   #1114
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Originally Posted by antz.bin View Post
The first instinct of anyone facing an imminent collision is to slam the brakes, not swerve or even try to steer out of it. This tendency is known as Target Fixation. Most 2 wheeler riders regardless of whether they ride a bicycle or a Hayabusa fall prey to it unless they are specifically taught how to avoid doing it.

Secondly, most vehicles on our roads do not have ABS, doesn't matter if they are from the 80s or 2012. If you want to brake hard, check your mirrors. Kevin was lucky Mr.B behind was on a bike and not an Indicab which would have caused much more damage. As a rule, if your sudden braking maneuver isn't going to save a life, please try to avoid doing it as much as possible. Because you trying to save that *hypothetical* vegetable basket may lead to someone losing his/her life.
Let me repeat myself here:
It is very easy to infer from a situation when reading, but one is not sure of the exact incident that happened.
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Old 27th March 2012, 11:19   #1115
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Default Re: Pune : Roads, traffic conditions, route queries and other assorted rants.

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Originally Posted by Swanand Inamdar View Post
Why are we arguing about sudden braking and swerving?
By what I've read, I didnt find anything wrong that Kevin did. Rather, his actions were absolutely justifiable.

If anyone has to be blamed, its the dhobi carrying the helmet. Then, blame the biker that was almost tailgating (?) Kevin. Had that biker rear ended Kevin, it wouldve been the bikers fault, and his fault only.

In any situation, the one who rear ends is at fault. Regardless of the braking ability of the vehicle in question. No two ways about that.
Yes! It was not Kevin's fault at all. And I was in fact laughing at Mr.A's stupidity (as originally intended by the original post) . But had there been any damage to Kevin's car due to him trying to save a 200Rs helmet lying on the road, the Damage would have cost him much much much more than Rs.200 to fix. My point was not to point a finger at Kevin's *mistake*. I was only suggesting on ways to save yourself the financial hit / hassle since Brakes / skill of other vehicles/drivers may not always be adequate.

P.S.: We really need a more liberal policy on smileys. This sticking to the 2 smiley limit habit is causing all this confusion .
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Old 27th March 2012, 14:21   #1116
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Default Re: Pune : Roads, traffic conditions, route queries and other assorted rants.

Quote:
Originally Posted by antz.bin View Post
The first instinct of anyone facing an imminent collision is to slam the brakes, not swerve or even try to steer out of it. This tendency is known as

Most 2 wheeler riders regardless of whether they ride a bicycle or a Hayabusa fall prey to it unless they are specifically taught how to avoid doing it.

Secondly, most vehicles on our roads do not have ABS, doesn't matter if they are from the 80s or 2012. If you want to brake hard, check your mirrors. Kevin was lucky Mr.B behind was on a bike and not an Indicab which would have caused much more damage. As a rule, if your sudden braking maneuver isn't going to save a life, please try to avoid doing it as much as possible. Because you trying to save that *hypothetical* vegetable basket may lead to someone losing his/her life.
Not really, depends on how alert a person is. If something falls off suddenly in front of me i would brake + swerve and do everything possible not to hit the object.

You cannot say 2 wheelers fall prey to it. Be it a 2 wheeler or indicab they have to keep account of capabilites of their vehicles and be alert and maintain safe distance from the better vehicle ahead.

If someone is in front of me and i need to save him i have no business to look at back.

If bike or indicab smashes me from back its by default his mistake and he should pay for it. If he argues i am sure i will smash him and hand him over to police.
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Old 27th March 2012, 14:46   #1117
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Default Re: Pune : Roads, traffic conditions, route queries and other assorted rants.

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Originally Posted by Swanand Inamdar View Post
In any situation, the one who rear ends is at fault. Regardless of the braking ability of the vehicle in question. No two ways about that.
Purely from a academic perspective, given that the bigger vehicle is always at fault and given that the vehicle who rear ends is always at fault, using Kevin's incident, who is at 'fault' here? Both from the real world perspective and from a legal perspective.

And no, I do not want to go into the who's and how's in Kevin's incident. I'm just using it as an example for my question.
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Old 27th March 2012, 14:55   #1118
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Default Re: Pune : Roads, traffic conditions, route queries and other assorted rants.

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Originally Posted by amit_mechengg View Post
Not really, depends on how alert a person is. If something falls off suddenly in front of me i would brake + swerve and do everything possible not to hit the object.

You cannot say 2 wheelers fall prey to it. Be it a 2 wheeler or indicab they have to keep account of capabilites of their vehicles and be alert and maintain safe distance from the better vehicle ahead.

If someone is in front of me and i need to save him i have no business to look at back.

If bike or indicab smashes me from back its by default his mistake and he should pay for it. If he argues i am sure i will smash him and hand him over to police.
First of all, a helmet is an inanimate object. The helmet wasn't going to die if it was run over. Thats the reason I wrote *vegetable basket* and not *baby*. Its not about whose vehicle is better than whose. Its about our responsibility on the road. I am sure Kevin was perfectly reasonable in stopping since he presumably couldn't possibly steer clear of it and didn't want to damage his car.

We can go on and on and on about being alert and being safe. But target fixation is a part and parcel of riding 2 wheelers. It doesn't even matter whether I ride "Atlas Shaan ki Sawaari" or Pulsar or Honda CBR1000RR. It is just an extension of 'you go where you look' which my father taught me when I was first learning to ride a bicycle ~~18 years back.

How else would you explain these:


In Video #1, bike #19 actually steered into the crashed bike just before crashing into it. He could have as easily steered in the other direction and avoided it altogether(like the rest of them).


If you look closely at video #2 it would have worked out much better had the rider just continued on with his corner without worrying about hitting the leading rider. Instead what happened is for everyone to see.

The guys involved here are racing superbikes which ideally would need 1000 times more alertness than riding a typical Splendor to work.

Finally, never smash the other guy. This might just happen.

The entire point I was trying to make was:
Try to avoid saving inanimate objects/dogs/chickens on the road by braking hard as long as they do not have the potential to harm you / your car. Your braking hard might just lead to the helmetless <bad_word_unsuitable_for_TBHP> coming behind you to die due to "His own mistake".

I rest my case here.
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Old 27th March 2012, 15:13   #1119
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Default Re: Pune : Roads, traffic conditions, route queries and other assorted rants.

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Originally Posted by thewhiteknight View Post
Purely from a academic perspective, given that the bigger vehicle is always at fault and given that the vehicle who rear ends is always at fault, using Kevin's incident, who is at 'fault' here? Both from the real world perspective and from a legal perspective.

And no, I do not want to go into the who's and how's in Kevin's incident. I'm just using it as an example for my question.
There is no law that bigger vehicle is always at fault.

But there is a law that a person hitting from back is always at fault from legal point of view.
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Old 27th March 2012, 15:44   #1120
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Default Re: Pune : Roads, traffic conditions, route queries and other assorted rants.

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Originally Posted by amit_mechengg View Post
There is no law that bigger vehicle is always at fault.

But there is a law that a person hitting from back is always at fault from legal point of view.
Hmm, I agree and disagree. From a 'Legal, courts, Law' perspective, I suppose there is nothing like this. But coming from a real world perspective, isn't this what we all acknowledge and live with? Esp. if the one in the smaller vehicle is injured.

And prolly more so in a Pune/Jaipur/other similar small cities, given that the proliferation of 2-wheelers ala motorcycles, scooters.

Last edited by thewhiteknight : 27th March 2012 at 15:50.
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Old 27th March 2012, 18:43   #1121
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Default Re: Pune : Roads, traffic conditions, route queries and other assorted rants.

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Originally Posted by antz.bin View Post
First of all, a helmet is an inanimate object. The helmet wasn't going to die if it was run over. Thats the reason I wrote *vegetable basket* and not *baby*. Its not about whose vehicle is better than whose. Its about our responsibility on the road. I am sure Kevin was perfectly reasonable in stopping since he presumably couldn't possibly steer clear of it and didn't want to damage his car.


The guys involved here are racing superbikes which ideally would need 1000 times more alertness than riding a typical Splendor to work.


The entire point I was trying to make was:
Try to avoid saving inanimate objects/dogs/chickens on the road by braking hard as long as they do not have the potential to harm you / your car. Your braking hard might just lead to the helmetless <bad_word_unsuitable_for_TBHP> coming behind you to die due to "His own mistake".

I rest my case here.
I know what you are trying to say. But lets keep aside the race videos part. In a race we drive at high speeds bumper to bumper as its a competition.


In day to day life you have to maintain sufficient distance between yourself and the vehicle in front of you. " Sufficient" - considering your vehicles braking power and your own skills too.

A helmet if driven and smashed over can cause considerable damage to your engine belts , radiator fans etc.
Mainly if something falls right in front of you natural human tendency is to brake hard or brake + turn the steering.

My whole point is quite simple. A person who bangs from behind is the culprit.

I have faced a similar accident. On a descending flyover suddenly a ford fiesta stopped right in front of me. I couldnt stop my alto and banged him.

Legally police made their point clear. For whatsoever reason you bang the vehicle in fron of you, its your fault. And i very much agree. I should have kept enough distance from the fiesta considering my alto is not equipped with ABS EBD etc.
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Old 28th March 2012, 10:08   #1122
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The Curious case of the Hadapsar bypass bridge

Now, this figure shows how the condition was some months back:
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It was a perfectly working system, no issues of what I recollect as the speed breakers were present before the place where the by-lane on the left and the Pune-Solapur highway meets.

Now, this was done couple of months back. They shortened the barrier on the left.
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So, as you guessed, the super-intelligent bikers would take the turn BEFORE the speed breakers and head in the opposite direction to take the division in the highway Hearty round of applause to these daredevils!


On the diagram 3, I am showing the real problem.

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Now, there are bus vendors sitting on the left of the by-lane. So the buses halt ON THE HIGHWAY to pick these people up. Another round of applause, ladies and gentlemen, for the brilliant and efficient way of handling passengers.

Because of this arrangement, couple of days back, a cleaner lost his life when the bus2 started to overtake bus1 as it had finished loading passengers and came on the way of a speeding truck coming down the slope. The crash was so bad, that the truck hit the divider wall on the right (which is almost 3 feet tall) and turned into the by-lane divider thereby damaging it.

On the diagram 4, I will show the brains of the local corporator who took things into his hands and without consulting the PMC, wiped the divider completely yesterday.

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Now, this is how the situation stands today. So as of now, there are no speed breakers (except for the one where the median ends) and the roads merge gleefully giving the bikers and cars the opportunity to turn into the division in the median, thereby letting them come into the way of oncoming speeding traffic coming down the slope.

Last edited by _raVan_ : 28th March 2012 at 10:10.
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Old 28th March 2012, 11:17   #1123
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Default Re: Pune : Roads, traffic conditions, route queries and other assorted rants.

Though a crude way of explaining, great illustration _raVan_. I take this road daily for my office commute. I climb down the bridge & take the "U" turn in the central divider. Though the service road (under the bridge) is shorter for me to get on to the Saswad/Jejuri road I take the overbridge simply to avoid the utter chaotic traffic under the bridge (PMP buses, ricks, vendor carts & what not)
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Old 28th March 2012, 12:25   #1124
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Though a crude way of explaining, great illustration _raVan_. I take this road daily for my office commute. I climb down the bridge & take the "U" turn in the central divider. Though the service road (under the bridge) is shorter for me to get on to the Saswad/Jejuri road I take the overbridge simply to avoid the utter chaotic traffic under the bridge (PMP buses, ricks, vendor carts & what not)
Even I take the bridge to avoid the chaotic traffic (I need to take the Sanjeevani Hospital road). Its going to get more chaotic as the work on the bridge division gathers "momentum" (pun intended ).
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Old 28th March 2012, 12:26   #1125
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Default Re: Pune : Roads, traffic conditions, route queries and other assorted rants.

Pretty similar is the case of the infamous Wakad flyover. Most of the times you would find bikers, cabbies, yellow plated cars and an occasional police jeep taking those wrong turns. Yes! Police jeeps too. Ive clicked a snap or two of them doing it.

Then, you always have those tum-tums waiting right at the start of the puny flyover, to drop/pickup customers!
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