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Old 23rd April 2012, 14:26   #1171
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Default Re: Pune : Roads, traffic conditions, route queries and other assorted rants.

Excellent stuff, Mandar! The sad thing is that it will be another 15-20 years before our authorities even START building a metro in Pune. And by then it will be too late and perenially in catch-up mode.

Look what's happening in Bangalore: only the first phase (MG Road to Byapanhalli) is operational, ironically on a sector that is already very well connected by road. In Mumbai, the Versova-Ghatkopar metro was supposed to open in 2010 or so, still waiting for it.

Delhi is the only city in India which seems to have gotten the metro right first time around. The Cal metro is excellent but hardly covers the entire vastness of that metrop.
Still it is something.

I wish our civic authorities wake up NOW and do something before Pune ends up another victim of random unplanned development. Pune is in a worse position that other cities (like Mumbai for example) which at least have good working public transport systems albeit overloaded.
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Old 23rd April 2012, 14:47   #1172
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Default Re: Pune : Roads, traffic conditions, route queries and other assorted rants.

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Originally Posted by MandarMax View Post
Let me know your thoughts.

Great suggestion and plan. The cost for this would quadruple though.
Since you asked for a few thoughts, here you go:

- The plan reminded me of the LA Metro Rail setup. It connects a major train station, places of interest (Universal studios, Hollywood walk of fame, etc) very easily through different coloured routes. See this - Metro Rail (Los Angeles County) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

- An interesting thing I noticed about the LA Metro and various other transit systems in California like the VTA, Caltrain and BART combination is that of "transit connections". If you have a time schedule for each of these services in your hand, you could travel from any source to destination without an enquiry desk.
The ticketing system was automated, the access to the train station was hassle free. Most importantly, the connections were spot on. If I had a BART connection from Caltrain in 45 seconds, the BART train would arrive exactly in 45 seconds. All I used to do was go to maps.google.com and get directions to use public transport. I hope the design of Pune Metro we get helps us achieve similar standards in public transport.

- A connection to the airport shouldn't be made in my opinion. Reason? The airport route after leaving Nagar road or Kalyani nagar hardly has any settlement. An exclusive line to the airport is therefore not warranted. What could replace the metro is shuttle service buses from the nearest Metro station (Ramwadi in our case). It would be cost effective and easier to manage.

- You missed out adding the most troublesome destination - Hinjewadi. I feel, the second line after building Vanaz - Ramwadi should be Hinjewadi to Central Pune. That would decongest a lot of roads today.
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Old 23rd April 2012, 15:31   #1173
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Default Re: Pune : Roads, traffic conditions, route queries and other assorted rants.

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Originally Posted by moralfibre View Post

- A connection to the airport shouldn't be made in my opinion. Reason? The airport route after leaving Nagar road or Kalyani nagar hardly has any settlement. An exclusive line to the airport is therefore not warranted. What could replace the metro is shuttle service buses from the nearest Metro station (Ramwadi in our case). It would be cost effective and easier to manage.

- .
Very valid point, except for the above. I think it is because of thinking like above we are in the trouble that we are in.

Shouldn't we always plan for future but not as per the current scenario?
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Old 23rd April 2012, 16:38   #1174
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Default Re: Pune : Roads, traffic conditions, route queries and other assorted rants.

Excellent suggestions there Mandar.
Only if those who can actually do it, really do it

It would be half a century by the time this comes to the drawing board. And after that so many protests for and against the proposal, so many discussions, some Dadas, Bhaus, Sahebs, Tais involved for the discussions, and end result? Well we all know, what's happening to Pune metro - I have been reading about it for last 5 years at least. And we are not at consensus if its going to be underground or over
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Old 23rd April 2012, 17:25   #1175
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Default Re: Pune : Roads, traffic conditions, route queries and other assorted rants.

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Originally Posted by CANPUSH View Post
Be prepared of the major calamity on the way..

If they approve elevated Metro Corridor, the traffic on the entire stretch between Vanaz on Paud road and Ramwadi on Nagar road will get paralyzed.

The Metro route is - Paud road - Paud phata - Nalstop -Karve road - Deccan - J M Road - turn at sancheti junction - Kamgar Putla - sangam bridge - Dr. Ambedkar road upto Maldhakka - Turn left towards station - Sanjay Gandhi road - cross station to Jahangir Hospital chowk - Bund garden road - cross river near Bund Garden - Nagar road till Ramwadi - turn left to new Airport road - Airport.
Couldnt agree more with you there sir!!

Dont get me wrong, I am all for progress, just not the way Pune city goes about it.
There is this little underpass being created, couldnt be more than 5-10 meters in width , opposite M.I.T. school. Yet every single day it causes a bottleneck near Bharti Vidyapeeth/Post Office and traffic literally crawls in first gear. Wonder which side of this one way road the Metro will pass from ?

Instead of investing thousands of crores in Metro , the interim solution to our woes is, well, AC buses. Lots of them. On all possible routes and as much frequently as possible.
But then, it leaves very little scope (compared to Metro) for the "commission" basis our civil system runs on.
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Old 23rd April 2012, 17:30   #1176
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Default Re: Pune : Roads, traffic conditions, route queries and other assorted rants.

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Originally Posted by sajo View Post
Instead of investing thousands of crores in Metro , the interim solution to our woes is, well, AC buses. Lots of them. On all possible routes and as much frequently as possible.
Sajo, the Metro is not a panacea to cure all ills. Whatever solution we come up with has to be a mass rapid transit system with unhindered access to reduce travel time and attractive enough to get car-users off the streets. AC buses fail big on the first aspect and will require an equally huge investment in the road networks being brought up to speed (dedicated lanes etc.- we know from the BRTS fiasco how that turned out!)
Personally I think any MRT system that neglects fast growing areas of the city while focusing purely on the city centre and surrounds is a fail. Bangalore's Namma Metro doesn't cover Electronics City, nor does the plan for Pune cover Hinjewadi. Terrible planning.
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Old 23rd April 2012, 17:44   #1177
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Default Re: Pune : Roads, traffic conditions, route queries and other assorted rants.

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Originally Posted by moralfibre View Post
- A connection to the airport shouldn't be made in my opinion. Reason? The airport route after leaving Nagar road or Kalyani nagar hardly has any settlement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anilisanil View Post
Shouldn't we always plan for future but not as per the current scenario?
I agree the connection to the airport should not be made. But my reason is different. By the time the metro is built, the airport would have moved. Oh wait, will it be the other way around?!

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Originally Posted by noopster View Post
Personally I think any MRT system that neglects fast growing areas of the city while focusing purely on the city centre and surrounds is a fail. Bangalore's Namma Metro doesn't cover Electronics City, nor does the plan for Pune cover Hinjewadi. Terrible planning.
Sorry, but this is not planning. It does not work that way in India. If it was the case, the entire suburbs would be planned better.
In fact my opinion of the planning department is that they just do everything as a reaction. There is no proactive behaviour in the way our cities have swollen.
Unfortunately its more like a David Dhawan movie. Make the script up as we go along. Who cares what will happen in 2 generations time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sajo View Post
Instead of investing thousands of crores in Metro , the interim solution to our woes is, well, AC buses. Lots of them. On all possible routes and as much frequently as possible.
Sajo, if there are AC buses, I would prefer using my AC car. I dont want to be standing on the road waiting for buses or connections for hours on end. Trains/ metros have a more reasonable frequency and you know one will arrive in x minutes.

To be honest, we had the opportunity to plan our cities in the late 90s and we blew it. Now everyone is addicted to using their own transport. So essentially instead of following the European city pattern we followed the gas guzzler option. Today we are only increasing our oil dependency and our commute times.

Last edited by selfdrive : 23rd April 2012 at 17:45.
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Old 24th April 2012, 12:06   #1178
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Default Re: Pune : Roads, traffic conditions, route queries and other assorted rants.

Quote:
Originally Posted by noopster View Post
Sajo, the Metro is not a panacea to cure all ills. Whatever solution we come up with has to be a mass rapid transit system with unhindered access to reduce travel time and attractive enough to get car-users off the streets. AC buses fail big on the first aspect and will require an equally huge investment in the road networks being brought up to speed (dedicated lanes etc.- we know from the BRTS fiasco how that turned out!)
Personally I think any MRT system that neglects fast growing areas of the city while focusing purely on the city centre and surrounds is a fail. Bangalore's Namma Metro doesn't cover Electronics City, nor does the plan for Pune cover Hinjewadi. Terrible planning.
There is no Planning. Metro proposed is not part of Development plan of teh city. it is a stand alone project. Further, there is a comprehensive mobility plan for Pune city prepared by a big company called Wilber Smith. PMC is yet to pass and adopt the same as politicians do not see 'Projects' in the CMP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sajo View Post
Couldnt agree more with you there sir!!

Dont get me wrong, I am all for progress, just not the way Pune city goes about it.
There is this little underpass being created, couldnt be more than 5-10 meters in width , opposite M.I.T. school. Yet every single day it causes a bottleneck near Bharti Vidyapeeth/Post Office and traffic literally crawls in first gear. Wonder which side of this one way road the Metro will pass from ?

Instead of investing thousands of crores in Metro , the interim solution to our woes is, well, AC buses. Lots of them. On all possible routes and as much frequently as possible.
But then, it leaves very little scope (compared to Metro) for the "commission" basis our civil system runs on.

The ideal solution could be to run the Metro elevated till Anandnagar on Paud road and put it below ground at the junction where Paud Road splits. It should then run underground till Bund garden to come up again in the elevated form at Yerawada and run as elevated to Ramwadi. This can save all the trees and buildings on karve road, J. M. Road, Ambedkar road and Bund garden road and also save citizens of the trauma of traffic congestion. It will also take care of many other issues like - acquisition of land, permission to cross railway tracks from above, reaching Shivajinagar railway/ bus station, etc.

However, I believe, there are lot of vested interests in getting contracts for elevated corridor. Underground being more specialised job, very few contractors have the expertise.

Politicians are saying underground will cost three times but in reality it will not since it saves money required for acquisition of land and related litigation and delays, as well as social costs of shifting service lines (ele, water, drainage, telephones, etc), additional money spent by citizen on fuel and in terms of wasted manhours due to traffic congestion.

Politicians are more interested in 'projects' for the money that changes hands rather than 'development'.

Very unfortunate and frustrating.
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Old 24th April 2012, 16:46   #1179
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Default Re: Pune : Roads, traffic conditions, route queries and other assorted rants.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MandarMax View Post
I am imagining total 7 lines. Six connecting different ends of the city, and one city circle line, similar to what they have in London. Note that most of the stations have been randomly placed. Also I know that I have probably not been fair to the eastern and south eastern suburbs as compared to the western and northern ones.
Mandar, this is one of the nicest post I have seen in a long time. Kudos to your thoughtfulness. I tried going from one part of Pune to another (our usual haunts) using your system and it was pretty effortless.

Now when are we getting it in real?
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Old 24th April 2012, 18:22   #1180
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Default Re: Pune : Roads, traffic conditions, route queries and other assorted rants.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moralfibre View Post
- An interesting thing I noticed about the LA Metro and various other transit systems in California like the VTA, Caltrain and BART combination is that of "transit connections". If you have a time schedule for each of these services in your hand, you could travel from any source to destination without an enquiry desk.
The ticketing system was automated, the access to the train station was hassle free. Most importantly, the connections were spot on. If I had a BART connection from Caltrain in 45 seconds, the BART train would arrive exactly in 45 seconds. All I used to do was go to maps.google.com and get directions to use public transport. I hope the design of Pune Metro we get helps us achieve similar standards in public transport.
- The good things you experienced in LA are a result of their comprehensive/integrated transport planning and that's what other world class cities have done. Particularly London underground is one of the best examples when it comes to connectivity. It's even more amazing when you think that it is one of the oldest system in the world - started about 150 years ago (in 1863). Another good metro system I have see is in Vancouver, Canada. (SkyTrain). The trains are fully automated, means there is no driver or operator (like London DLR), and you never have to worry when you a miss a train because next train is immediately available in a matter of seconds. Another good example of city trains I have seen is in Sydney, where they have double-decker carriages to handle the large size of crowd. I think double decker carriages would be a good idea for cities like Mumbai. It is unfortunate that our politicians cannot come up with something like these cities. These people also travel around the world, but don't bring good ideas back home.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moralfibre View Post
- A connection to the airport shouldn't be made in my opinion. Reason? The airport route after leaving Nagar road or Kalyani nagar hardly has any settlement. An exclusive line to the airport is therefore not warranted. What could replace the metro is shuttle service buses from the nearest Metro station (Ramwadi in our case). It would be cost effective and easier to manage.
- I think the Metro should cater not only to city center, but should cover all the remote areas. The ability to travel fast to city center from outskirts should be one of the main targets for the project. That would ease some of the pressure on our city, as well as the real estate which keeps getting unreasonably expensive because staying on outskirts is not convenient for most people. For example I would prefer living in a nice bungalow on the outskirts than a 2-3 bhk flat in a crowded residential area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moralfibre View Post
- You missed out adding the most troublesome destination - Hinjewadi. I feel, the second line after building Vanaz - Ramwadi should be Hinjewadi to Central Pune. That would decongest a lot of roads today.
- I had Hinjewadi in mind. It's on the green line, but probably not represented well on the map.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sajo View Post
Instead of investing thousands of crores in Metro , the interim solution to our woes is, well, AC buses. Lots of them. On all possible routes and as much frequently as possible.
Having more buses is a good idea, but that cannot be the primary mode of transport for the city. A bus whether AC or not is not going to be as efficient in transporting large number of people at a high speed. Buses are only good for connecting areas to its nearest metro station.

Quote:
Originally Posted by noopster View Post
Sajo, the Metro is not a panacea to cure all ills. Whatever solution we come up with has to be a mass rapid transit system with unhindered access to reduce travel time and attractive enough to get car-users off the streets. AC buses fail big on the first aspect and will require an equally huge investment in the road networks being brought up to speed (dedicated lanes etc.- we know from the BRTS fiasco how that turned out!)
Personally I think any MRT system that neglects fast growing areas of the city while focusing purely on the city centre and surrounds is a fail. Bangalore's Namma Metro doesn't cover Electronics City, nor does the plan for Pune cover Hinjewadi. Terrible planning.
That is exactly my thinking!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CANPUSH View Post
The ideal solution could be to run the Metro elevated till Anandnagar on Paud road and put it below ground at the junction where Paud Road splits. It should then run underground till Bund garden to come up again in the elevated form at Yerawada and run as elevated to Ramwadi. This can save all the trees and buildings on karve road, J. M. Road, Ambedkar road and Bund garden road and also save citizens of the trauma of traffic congestion. It will also take care of many other issues like - acquisition of land, permission to cross railway tracks from above, reaching Shivajinagar railway/ bus station, etc.
Completely agree with you. Hope the people in charge of planning also understand this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dot View Post
Mandar, this is one of the nicest post I have seen in a long time. Kudos to your thoughtfulness. I tried going from one part of Pune to another (our usual haunts) using your system and it was pretty effortless.
Thanks Dot. Probably we have the same "usual haunts" that's why I got it right.

Last edited by MandarMax : 24th April 2012 at 18:24.
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Old 25th April 2012, 14:47   #1181
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Default Re: Pune : Roads, traffic conditions, route queries and other assorted rants.

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Originally Posted by MandarMax View Post
Guys - since we are talking about the Pune Metro, let me present this result of my daydreaming about how the Pune metro of future might look like.

Before I begin, let me clarify the following questions that might come to your mind
  • Have you been smoking anything illegal? - NO
  • Are you an expert in this subject? - NO
  • Do you think this is actually going to happen? Probably in next 10-20 years? - NO
  • Don't you have anything better to do this afternoon - NO
  • Don't you think this is bit off topic for this thread? - Probably YES.
Now, with the questions out of the way, I would proudly like to present this map:

Attachment 918792

I am imagining total 7 lines. Six connecting different ends of the city, and one city circle line, similar to what they have in London. Note that most of the stations have been randomly placed. Also I know that I have probably not been fair to the eastern and south eastern suburbs as compared to the western and northern ones.

As per my knowledge part of the light blue line above is already being planned for first phase of the metro. I think it's going to be from Ramwadi to Vanaz. (By the way I have not taken into account the exact same route or stations as mentioned here.)

Even though this plan is a figment of my imagination, I strongly believe that something of this scale must be planned TODAY considering the growth the city is experiencing and the current state of public transport facilities and the roads. I am very much aware that financially this is going to be very very expensive, and probably won't be feasible even if it's done over a span of couple of decades. But I don't think it is impossible.

Let me know your thoughts.
Hi Mandar,

This is really a great work. You have almost included all major parts of the city. Web like structure is the beauty of your plan which covers heart of the city. My observation is that Pune being IT hub most of the people travel to Hinjewadi, Kharadi & Magarpatta. All these locations are connected very well. Not to forget Pune station & Shivajinagar station. All routes eventually have start & end points at these two stations. I hope Pune authority should see this map.
I think frequency of the metro is more. There should be maximum of 10 min gap in two metros in peak hours.

Cheers
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Old 29th April 2012, 11:56   #1182
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Default Re: Pune : Roads, traffic conditions, route queries and other assorted rants.

All - Encouraged by all the feedback received from bhpian friends, I decided to spend some more time this weekend and created a web based app using Google maps. The application is available at:

Imagining Pune Metro of future...because all we can do is dream! :-)

This will make things more clearer as compared to the previous image. I have also made some minor tweaks with respect to the routes. You can zoom in to the map to see more details

Using Google maps also allowed me to measure the distance, which is about 257 kms. To put things into perspective, London underground is 402 kms, New York subway is 337 kms, Delhi Metro is 189.7 kms. Looks more and more impossible as I think. Would easily require 25k crores or more I think. :-)


Please feel free to share your thoughts.

Pune : Roads, traffic conditions, route queries and other assorted rants.-mappunegoogle.png

Last edited by MandarMax : 29th April 2012 at 12:01.
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Old 1st May 2012, 19:16   #1183
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Default Re: Pune : Roads, traffic conditions, route queries and other assorted rants.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MandarMax View Post
All - Encouraged by all the feedback received from bhpian friends, I decided to spend some more time this weekend and created a web based app using Google maps.

Looks more and more impossible as I think. Would easily require 25k crores or more I think.
It is great that you are thinking about the good future of the city that we love so much. Much better than the usual rant and negativity. I would certainly suggest that you take your work to appropriate authorities. Yes, it might (and will) meet the expected skepticism, but sometimes unthinkable happens. Courage is needed.
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Old 1st May 2012, 22:05   #1184
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Default Re: Pune : Roads, traffic conditions, route queries and other assorted rants.

According to another thread here :

Quote:
National Highways Fee (Determination of Rates and Collection) Rules 2008, toll plazas cannot be
1. Inside Municipal limit
Looks like the time has come to send some MLAs/MLCs through this toll.
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Old 2nd May 2012, 13:29   #1185
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Default Re: Pune : Roads, traffic conditions, route queries and other assorted rants.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MandarMax View Post
All - Encouraged by all the feedback received from bhpian friends, I decided to spend some more time this weekend and created a web based app using Google maps. The application is available at:

Imagining Pune Metro of future...because all we can do is dream! :-)
This is fantastic Mandar. We all love this city, and thanks for thinking for the future.
As dot has said, any new thing will be met with skepticism.
About the budget, well, we have lots of money, its just that it needs to be channelised correctly.

Pls talk to the authorities, I am sure you have support from the fellow TeamBHPians. count me in.
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