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Old 16th June 2011, 13:23   #61
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Default Re: Four-year dream run comes to an end - Laura L&K accident

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Originally Posted by vb-san View Post
If not for the airbag, I am sure the driver would have suffered badly in this accident.
You are discounting the possibility that the driver was actually going faster than was mandated/required. If there was an auto rickshaw on the road trying to take a right turn, it cannot be a national highway. If the driver had stuck to a decent speed of 40-60kmph, neither he nor the car would have suffered.

Ultimately it's still the driver who will make a difference.
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Old 16th June 2011, 14:01   #62
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Default Re: Four-year dream run comes to an end - Laura L&K accident

Sorry to read about this Androdev. I am sure watching you car in that condition must be really saddening. But then the most important thing is that your parents and driver are safe and without injuries. Car can eventually get repaired or replaced.

Despite all the horror stories around Skoda, kudos to there overall build quality and safety features that played an important role in ensure occupant safety
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Old 16th June 2011, 14:03   #63
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Default Re: Four-year dream run comes to an end - Laura L&K accident

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Originally Posted by honeybee View Post
You are discounting the possibility that the driver was actually going faster than was mandated/required. If there was an auto rickshaw on the road trying to take a right turn, it cannot be a national highway. If the driver had stuck to a decent speed of 40-60kmph, neither he nor the car would have suffered.

Ultimately it's still the driver who will make a difference.
Well from the OP, I infer that the accident happened on the National highway (see below). Forget auto rickshaw taking right turn, even trucks coming in wrong direction, with single a headlight is a common sight on our highways. So even if the driver is exceptionally good, these kind of troubles can happen on our highways.

And it would have been suicidal for Androdev’s driver to stick to the speed of 40-60 kmph, as they were on the right-most lane

Quote:
Originally Posted by androdev
My parents were traveling towards Hyd from Bangalore (NH-07) and around 5KM after chikballapur town there was an auto in the left lane that took a sudden righ turn (i guess he saw a gap in the median and wanted to take U-turn and didn't bother to see what's in the right lane). Our driver swerved right and hit the median - and my guess is he hit the median at full speed either without braking or insufficient braking.
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Old 16th June 2011, 14:05   #64
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Default Re: Four-year dream run comes to an end - Laura L&K accident

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Originally Posted by honeybee View Post
If there was an auto rickshaw on the road trying to take a right turn, it cannot be a national highway.
It is hard to agree on that. I see all types of wheels on NH (although i wish it was true). My guess -it was NH 7 - Hyd to Bangalore.

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Originally Posted by androdev View Post
Currently I do not have zero-dep policy. (My next policy starting from 26-June is, but that is not relevant now). So in my case, insurance liability of repair value should be more than 75% of IDV. Which means repair value should be much more than IDV (960K) and 600-700K repair will not qualify for total loss.

Btw, will the original IDV be ex-showroom price or on-road-price? The OTR price for this car was nearly 20L, while the ex-showroom price was 16-ish.
Really sorry to hear your case.

Just curious - is zero-dep policy available for cars older than 3 year?
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Old 16th June 2011, 14:12   #65
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Default Re: Four-year dream run comes to an end - Laura L&K accident

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Originally Posted by fi.robin View Post
It is hard to agree on that. I see all types of wheels on NH (although i wish it was true). My guess -it was NH 7 - Hyd to Bangalore.
My guess is the airbags too wouldn't deploy unless the vehicle was at a high speed, not sure how much this is. But my guess is at 60kmph the airbags wouldn't have deployed. Also from the looks of it there are towns lined up along this particular highway, so one should anticipate the traffic conditions and drive accordingly.

Anyways, this is probably a discussion for another thread.
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Old 16th June 2011, 15:19   #66
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Talking Re: Four-year dream run comes to an end - Laura L&K accident

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Originally Posted by honeybee View Post
You should insist on getting a copy of the FIR in either Hindi (slim chance in a South Indian state) or in English. Make a written request to the police station for the same and get their response in writing too. In case they fudged up the FIR in Kannada without you knowing it, you can claim innocence in the court if you had requested an English translation and they didn't provide it.

The police cannot register a case against your driver unless they have 'evidence' indicating he was at fault. There is no law which says the bigger vehicle's driver should be booked. In the event there's no complaint, or there's no evidence indicating your driver was at fault, they should simply register the accident.

If the auto driver didn't have a driving license and the auto didn't have valid papers/permit, get the same verified and documented as it may prove useful in the court. Try to keep the communication in writing and obtain acknowledgements whenever you are sending applications or requests for information to various departments/agencies.

Not to mention photographs of the place where the incident occurred, preferably right after the accident, photographs of the damaged auto as well as your vehicle should be obtained and preserved as they can prove how the accident occurred.
First off, my sympathies for the damage suffered by your car. Also, congratulations that your parents and driver were un harmed. Hope the auto driver gets out of the hospital too soon, as that will make the police complication far more manageable. But first a few facts about police working and procedures in India for an accident of this nature that in my view every driving enthusiast in India should know.

A. That the Police can lodge an FIR whenever feasible and they do not have to first collect evidence. As a matter of fact the FIR ( First Information Report) should normally be an information that points to an occurance of crime ( in this case the accident), without afterthoughts( or evidence). The collection of evidence usually starts after this phase and not before. In this case the police has registered a case of RASH AND NEGLIGENT DRIVING LEADING TO INJURIES against Androdev's driver ( Sec 279/337 IPC). In simple terms, the FIR charges Androdev's driver for committing a crime by way of rash driving, and also charges him with causing injuries to the Auto driver. Please remember that in most cases, the Police Station lodges such cases on their own information and dont even have to mention who told them.

B. What I would suggest at this stage for Androdev is to make sure to (1) Submit a written application addressed to the Station House Officer of the Police Station depicting the entire episode of how it happened, how the auto was erratically driven , who all were sitting in the car, and how the driver took evesive action in avoiding the collission. Please add also that : you came to know through your driver that the auto driver ( name him if you have the name) did not have a drivers license too. Get a copy of your application acknowledged at the police station . The Police station Clerk's signatures and stamp will do. This action will dissuade the police investigation to necessarily either accept or disregard the evidences supplied by you. It wont be easy for them not to hear your version because they would have to give reasons for that in writing in their case diaries. Meet the auto driver to enquire about his health , take his picture so that there is no scope left for anyone to change drivers, and get one who already has a drivers licence. Keep all such evidences ready for use by your lawyer.

C. In my personal opinion, provided that the injured auto driver is discharged from the hospital soon, this case can be closed as 'accidental' with the blessings of the police and the good will of the injured driver. I hope you get my drift. Actually, you will notice soon enough the Police trying to push you towards that direction. Its how 99% of such accidents are settled. Suits all!


C. Important to understand too are the type of accidents which can be simply compounded! (Which means both driver/owners of the vehicles involved agree to sort out the issue among themselves, and the Police just 'agrees' to be the facilitator.) CAR ACCIDENTS WHICH INVOLVES NO INJURY TO HUMAN BEINGS/ VERY MINOR INJURIES TO OCCUPANTS can be tackled in the above fashion. Keep in mind that if the police appear on the scene, they will try to act as if you have committed a very henious offence against the State for which an FIR must be lodged. The key word is to remain cool, polite at all times, and importantly, you should not look flustered or scared. Just request them that you would like to to settle things amongst yourselves, if they'don't mind'! Keep the Police on your right side always. They may help you out in more ways than you could imagine, just treat them right

D. Did you all know that law requires a case to be registered even if you crash your car against a tree and het hurt? Because you got hurt, so it is assumed that you were not driving prudently. The legal status will remain as such till finalization of the police investigation. At this stage the case against you can either be closed as not admitted, or sent up for judicial determination.

Mods: Please relocate if I have ventured to go off topic. My intention was only to share knowledge among all.
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Old 16th June 2011, 15:52   #67
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Default Re: Four-year dream run comes to an end - Laura L&K accident

Excellent explanation by R. Kotwal, sorry to see the pictures of the beautiful and safe car, and glad all were safe. Will keep glued to this thread on how Skoda helps you in this regard.
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Old 16th June 2011, 16:38   #68
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Default Re: Four-year dream run comes to an end - Laura L&K accident

@R.Kotwal, that is very useful info.

Unfortunately I did not do the right thing for several reasons.
1. I was not driving and not at the scene to ascertain the facts.
2. It is a rural police station outside my hometown and all the proceedings were in Kannada. My person who knew Kannada that was with me was legally-ignorant (which I came to know much later)
3. So the case was registered on my driver and when I protested it is not our fault, I was firmly told the case will always be registered on the bigger vehicle. And quite sadly when I called up few people in Bangalore, I was told these two IPC sections are very routine and not to worry about. Police also told me going at high-speed (without proving) is the basis for this.
4. Everyone gave me the impression that this is how stuff works - you know how frustrating it is sometimes when you reason rationally with police.
5. Police have a vested interest to log the complain against the party that has the potential to pay - they get nothing by registering a complaint against the auto.
6. I was told if I don't register a complaint this way (rash driving, etc.) they would have to wait for the victim to register a similar complaint and that may delay my vehicle's release, etc. with same liability.
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Old 16th June 2011, 17:59   #69
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Default Re: Four-year dream run comes to an end - Laura L&K accident

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Originally Posted by androdev View Post
5. Police have a vested interest to log the complain against the party that has the potential to pay - they get nothing by registering a complaint against the auto.
6. I was told if I don't register a complaint this way (rash driving, etc.) they would have to wait for the victim to register a similar complaint and that may delay my vehicle's release, etc. with same liability.
Point # 5 : Precisely
You cannot reason with police. If you have contacts either in Police or Judiciary you can wrestle your way out of the situation.
Point # 6 is debatable.
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Old 17th June 2011, 00:25   #70
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Post Re: Four-year dream run comes to an end - Laura L&K accident

Androdev, first of my sympathies to the damages suffered by your car. Also glad that none was hurt and this is an "eye-opener" for all of us on the importance of seat-belts. My father never buckles up and whenever he sits in front seat, I use to fight with him to get it done. This will definitely help him understand the importance of buckling up (sorry to use your case as a test).

Quote:
Originally Posted by honeybee View Post
You are discounting the possibility that the driver was actually going faster than was mandated/required. If there was an auto rickshaw on the road trying to take a right turn, it cannot be a national highway. If the driver had stuck to a decent speed of 40-60kmph, neither he nor the car would have suffered.

Ultimately it's still the driver who will make a difference.
Honeybee, with due respect, I beg to differ with you on this point. I have "never" been in a highway without an auto/ two-wheeler. I have been from Bangalore to Kerala a lot of times by road. I have been on the Ahemadabad highway in Mumbai a lot of times and have driven from Hyderabad to Bangalore once and have seen rickshaws on all these highways. Now they are all proper highways.

@ Kotwal, thanks for a nice post, I will have a print out of this in my car always and will be a "ready-reckoner". It is unfortunate to see the way things happen in "progressed" India, we definitely have a lot of way to "progress".

I was looking for a car and was actually planning to settle for LS model of Optra which will save me more than 100K. Now this decision is changed and if I buy a new car, this will have ABS & Airbags.
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Old 17th June 2011, 01:40   #71
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Default Re: Four-year dream run comes to an end - Laura L&K accident

Quote:
Originally Posted by honeybee View Post
You are discounting the possibility that the driver was actually going faster than was mandated/required. If there was an auto rickshaw on the road trying to take a right turn, it cannot be a national highway. If the driver had stuck to a decent speed of 40-60kmph, neither he nor the car would have suffered.

Ultimately it's still the driver who will make a difference.

I have encountered men on foot, cycle (that too milkman cycle with milk jars), cycle van (with heaped tomatoes), 3 wheeler tempo (with more load than what can be carried by a mini truck) and off course the auto rickshaw in NH 2.
As in India - if it moves - it is NH worthy!
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Old 17th June 2011, 06:07   #72
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Default Re: Four-year dream run comes to an end - Laura L&K accident

Androdev,

Glad to hear family members were unharmed. In the end, that is all that matters! All else comes secondary.

These 3 wheeled vehicles have VERY poor rear visibility....in fact it is zilch. They only rely on the rear view mirrors outside their cabins. The load carrying 3 wheelers have even worse rear view visibility. You can only imagine what their blind spots would be like!

I have had a quite a few 'near-misses' as it were, with these vehicles & they are ALL (I suspect) due to the blind spot. That is the reason i have a LOUD horn & HONK every time i pass a 3 wheeler or truck, no matter which lane i'm in. (Trucks also have very poor rear visibility) at any speed. It may be noise pollution to some, but better safe than sorry.
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Old 17th June 2011, 07:44   #73
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Default Re: Four-year dream run comes to an end - Laura L&K accident

Thats some nasty accident. Sorry to see the car in that state. Glad to know that everyone in the car was safe. Crap happens.
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Old 17th June 2011, 08:49   #74
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Default Re: Four-year dream run comes to an end - Laura L&K accident

Bad experience, but good that no one was severely hurt.

But, please do consider pressing the Insurance company for a Total Loss. After all your car is 4 years old, and the value of repairs seem to be as high as the depreciated value of your car now.

Moreover, even if you get repairs done, you would never be certain of the quality of the repairs. Most A.S.S would simple go ahead and REPLACE everything that they find broken. But, that doesn't give you any guarantee against any structural damages or micro-fractures that may have happened. So, it's better to book total loss.
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Old 17th June 2011, 10:09   #75
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Default Re: Four-year dream run comes to an end - Laura L&K accident

This was a really terrifying accident, and its is fortunate that no one was hurt badly.
I have a question, which may sound inappropriate. However, I feel a bit insecure about this, so I take the liberty of asking this.
If the Airbags are replaced at the workshop, are they as reliable as they were before? I mean, does the retro fitment come at the cost of safety of the passengers?
When the company provides the system, its a tried and tested setup and the security is assured. But is there any way to see if the fitment at the dealers place is equally good?
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