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Old 22nd July 2011, 16:56   #121
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Default Re: Four-year dream run comes to an end - Laura L&K accident

Finally all the paperwork is done. The car has been picked up from Vinayak garage by the buyer (must be some private garage owner). The buyer is sourced by ICICI and he has paid ICICI Rs 4.16 Lakhs by D.D towards the car. I will be getting a payment of Rs 8.75L from ICICI, hopefully soon. And eventually an RTO acknowledgment when the vehicle gets sold to an end-user.

I should mention that my experience with ICICI is so-so (you know the type of staff that don't remember your name even after multiple interactions) but the support from bodyshop advisor at Vinayak (Mr.Suman) was outstanding.

And thanks for all the support and advice from the t-bhp members.

Time for a "what car" thread :-)
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Old 24th July 2011, 17:59   #122
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Default Re: Four-year dream run comes to an end - Laura L&K accident

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Originally Posted by androdev View Post
Finally all the paperwork is done. The car has been picked up from Vinayak garage by the buyer (must be some private garage owner). The buyer is sourced by ICICI and he has paid ICICI Rs 4.16 Lakhs by D.D towards the car. I will be getting a payment of Rs 8.75L from ICICI, hopefully soon. And eventually an RTO acknowledgment when the vehicle gets sold to an end-user.

I should mention that my experience with ICICI is so-so (you know the type of staff that don't remember your name even after multiple interactions) but the support from bodyshop advisor at Vinayak (Mr.Suman) was outstanding.

And thanks for all the support and advice from the t-bhp members.

Time for a "what car" thread :-)
Good to know that you are now out of the issue completely (understand the emotional backlog you are carrying). Before closing the read request you to jot down your lessons learned and advise to others who may require it (hope none of us would ever be in a situation to use it). Also, kindly tell us which car you are finally selecting.
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Old 28th July 2011, 15:14   #123
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Default Re: Four-year dream run comes to an end - Laura L&K accident

Jumped on this thread after reading your 520d review.
Learnt a lot on this thread.
I will pass this on to my folks so that they know why I always insist on seat belts even at the back.
All the best!
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Old 29th July 2011, 09:25   #124
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Default Re: Four-year dream run comes to an end - Laura L&K accident

You got a good deal. We had a similar experience when our 5 year old Octavia got totaled a couple of years ago. The condition of the car was far worse. Mahavir Motors gave an estimation of around 13 lakhs after taxes. Obviously we decided to write it off. We got around 2.7 lakhs from All India Insurance, and 1.2 lakhs from the buyer. I don't think Skoda would charge Rs 40,000 for estimation & parking charges. We only paid Rs 10,000 when our car was in their showroom for 3 months.
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Old 12th August 2011, 16:59   #125
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Default Re: Four-year dream run comes to an end - Laura L&K accident

Just an update: I received two cheques from ICICI this week (exactly after 2 months from the date of accident), one I guess is the claim value (4.14L) and the other is the salvage value (4.61L).

What I spent (approx or what I can remember):
1. Towing the vehicle to the police station: Rs.500
2. FIR/Bail + grease: Rs.10000
3. RTO clearance + grease : Rs.2000
4. Vehicle clearance from police station + grease : Rs.6000 (?)
5. Towing the car to workshop in Bangalore: Rs.6000
6. Estimation+Parking charges: Rs.25000
7. Driver case-closure at Court + grease: Rs.7000

Your amounts may vary depending on the car and your ability to deal with the pathetic govt. The last item where the driver had to pay the court/legal was the worst of the lot, the police called me and asked me to send the driver to show up at the court with Rs5K to take care of the 'expenses'. Next day driver went to Chikballapur town with 5K and police took his cut and left the driver with the court official and court official demanded 2K extra and the driver requested him that this is all he got blah blah. This court official had none of it and sent the driver out telling him no 'money' no 'work'. So the driver had to go 2nd time to that town with the additional money! Blood suckers!
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Old 16th December 2011, 16:56   #126
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Default Re: Four-year dream run comes to an end - Laura L&K accident

Hi androdev,

I am very happy for you that ICICI handled this case so well.

The only negative that glares out is the frustating amount of bribes you had to pay.

In my case that part was very nicely handled by the cops who didn't take a single paisa.

Regards,
Ketan
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Old 28th January 2012, 23:29   #127
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Default Re: Four-year dream run comes to an end - Laura L&K accident

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Originally Posted by honeybee View Post
You are discounting the possibility that the driver was actually going faster than was mandated/required. If there was an auto rickshaw on the road trying to take a right turn, it cannot be a national highway. If the driver had stuck to a decent speed of 40-60kmph, neither he nor the car would have suffered.

Ultimately it's still the driver who will make a difference.
Androdev,

Now that all the dust has settled, I would like to state that I completely agree with Honeybee.

It does appear that your driver was going fast for that particular situation or else he could have avoided this accident. I am also surprised that he chose to swerve instead of slamming on the brakes which would have done a fantastic job of stopping the car in its tracks.

I am quite surprised that you have not mentioned anything about pulling up your driver. In fact, I might have even told him to the handle his criminal charges on his own without any help from me just to let him stew for what he had done before finally taking care of it.

It is obvious that you trust your driver and there is no point in firing him but I think you should keep a watch on his driving and point out his mistakes from time to time. At least he will be open to listening to you now. He needs to clearly understand that it is always safety first and that speed is secondary.

I am greatly pleased to hear about your seat belt policy. In my car, I refuse to drive if all passengers are not wearing seat belts when we are on highways.

Cheers!

Lapsi
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Old 29th January 2012, 00:33   #128
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Default Re: Four-year dream run comes to an end - Laura L&K accident

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Androdev,

Now that all the dust has settled, I would like to state that I completely agree with Honeybee.

It does appear that your driver was going fast for that particular situation or else he could have avoided this accident. I am also surprised that he chose to swerve instead of slamming on the brakes which would have done a fantastic job of stopping the car in its tracks.

I am quite surprised that you have not mentioned anything about pulling up your driver. In fact, I might have even told him to the handle his criminal charges on his own without any help from me just to let him stew for what he had done before finally taking care of it.

It is obvious that you trust your driver and there is no point in firing him but I think you should keep a watch on his driving and point out his mistakes from time to time. At least he will be open to listening to you now. He needs to clearly understand that it is always safety first and that speed is secondary.

I am greatly pleased to hear about your seat belt policy. In my car, I refuse to drive if all passengers are not wearing seat belts when we are on highways.

Cheers!

Lapsi
I would have also just slammed the brakes instead of swerving. But you know, you can never tell. Maybe swerving killed the car but saved the auto driver. One can never tell.

Now the speed was certainly moderate for the car and the road. He is driving my parents so he would not have been doing crazy speeds, maybe 80-100. Also 60kmph is hard to stick to on a highway like this one.

I have experienced people suddenly jumping in front you on highways, and it is the most dangerous thing to happen to you and you just pray that you don't encounter such incidents.

My experience has been that he doesn't drive fast but has poor reflexes. The ones that have good reflexes tend to drive fast. So very few lucky people get good drivers. Most of his duty is within city and he has been pretty OK so far. Highway driving is hit-and-miss given the number of idiots out there.

BTW, I also received a claim notice that makes me a party along with icici lombard. The auto driver is claiming compensation to the tune of 7 lakhs. I engaged a lawyer to deal with it and I think the case is going on at a very slow pace.
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Old 30th January 2012, 15:02   #129
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Default Re: Four-year dream run comes to an end - Laura L&K accident

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Originally Posted by androdev View Post
... Highway driving is hit-and-miss given the number of idiots out there.
...
Does having poor reflexes and still be driving at high speeds count as being an idiot?

No offence meant, but your statement about the poor reflexes of the driver seems to indicate one of the causes of the incident, IMO. Even within the city (unless he and his passengers are happy to cruise along at 10kmph) he would need good reflexes, since the number of 'people jumping in your road' would be much higher.

I don't want to criticize anyone or blame anyone, but I hope you also identify and address the inadequacies of your driver. Based on my own driving experience, I fail to recount a single instance of people or vehicles coming in my path that I could not have anticipated.

Re the auto driver's claim, it should take a few years going by the current state of affairs. And if you have third party insurance, you shouldn't be a party to the claim in the first place. If at all the insurance company thought you (or your driver) were at fault (for e.g. the driver not holding a valid driving license or being drunk etc) it would be a matter between you and the insurance company. It's strange to be made a party to the suit despite having a third party insurance cover.

Last edited by honeybee : 30th January 2012 at 15:04.
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Old 30th January 2012, 15:19   #130
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Default Re: Four-year dream run comes to an end - Laura L&K accident

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Originally Posted by androdev View Post
I would have also just slammed the brakes instead of swerving. But you know, you can never tell. Maybe swerving killed the car but saved the auto driver. One can never tell.
...
...
I have experienced people suddenly jumping in front you on highways, and it is the most dangerous thing to happen to you and you just pray that you don't encounter such incidents.
I second you on that, and I don't find your driver really at fault unless he was bluffing. Since your parents were involved, he cannot bluff much (at-least to you in private). More than people jumping in-front of you suddenly or a crazy rickshaw driver doing such crazy maneuvers, I have almost every time find guys driving wrong-side (they drive as if they are driving in US!!!) in 4 lane highways during my trips to Kerala. That too specifically after Salem and before Avinashi and around Perundurai area this is more obvious. Now these are mopeds/ transport buses/ tractors/ rickshaws/ local lorries (in the order of their sighting), not once or twice, but almost every time. I use to cross Salem by 5PM and I have seen this in all my trips and in my return trip, I cross Salem by 8PM, but the frequency is bit less in comparison to the onward journey.

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BTW, I also received a claim notice that makes me a party along with icici lombard. The auto driver is claiming compensation to the tune of 7 lakhs. I engaged a lawyer to deal with it and I think the case is going on at a very slow pace.
Oh my goodness !! that is crazy to be hit and then receive a notice claiming compensation. Wish you good luck to get out of this mess pretty quickly.
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Old 31st January 2012, 07:14   #131
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Default Re: Four-year dream run comes to an end - Laura L&K accident

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Originally Posted by honeybee View Post
Does having poor reflexes and still be driving at high speeds count as being an idiot?

No offence meant, but your statement about the poor reflexes of the driver seems to indicate one of the causes of the incident, IMO. Even within the city (unless he and his passengers are happy to cruise along at 10kmph) he would need good reflexes, since the number of 'people jumping in your road' would be much higher.
No offense taken. You know it is like employing in any other occupation. Hard to get a perfect person. He is punctual, dependable and drives with caution and respect. He knows a lot about cars and I can trust him to deal with a breakdown very well. We have an old Corsa and you need an in-house mechanic to keep that thing on road and he can get the job done very cheaply and reliably. About reflexes, some have it, some don't. Obviously I don't mean he is dull - there has never been another accident or scratch for nearly two years and that in itself is a decent accomplishment in Bangalore traffic. Some people have that extra gift of anticipating and driving - but I have no assurance that I can find one to replace this driver.

Quote:
I don't want to criticize anyone or blame anyone, but I hope you also identify and address the inadequacies of your driver. Based on my own driving experience, I fail to recount a single instance of people or vehicles coming in my path that I could not have anticipated.
We take the driver on the same route, same trips and everything. I would like to believe that it was a genuine case of an 'accident'. You are very fortunate to have that kind of driving discipline - it is very rare. It is very common to travel at 120KMPH kind of speeds and the scope for error is huge.

Quote:
Re the auto driver's claim, it should take a few years going by the current state of affairs. And if you have third party insurance, you shouldn't be a party to the claim in the first place. If at all the insurance company thought you (or your driver) were at fault (for e.g. the driver not holding a valid driving license or being drunk etc) it would be a matter between you and the insurance company. It's strange to be made a party to the suit despite having a third party insurance cover.
Yeah, out lawyer pretty much filed some papers that say "let the insurer deal with it", but since I am named as a party to the claim I guess I will have to deal with it.

Last edited by androdev : 31st January 2012 at 07:17.
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Old 31st January 2012, 13:40   #132
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Default Re: Four-year dream run comes to an end - Laura L&K accident

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... Hard to get a perfect person. He is punctual, dependable and drives with caution and respect. ... there has never been another accident or scratch for nearly two years and that in itself is a decent accomplishment in Bangalore traffic. ...
We take the driver on the same route, same trips and everything. I would like to believe that it was a genuine case of an 'accident'. You are very fortunate to have that kind of driving discipline - it is very rare. It is very common to travel at 120KMPH kind of speeds and the scope for error is huge.
I wouldn't go so far as to suggest you replace him, since your post above would make this a one off incident, a genuine 'accident' as you have aptly put it. And yes, if he could drive through Bangalore traffic without a scratch or an accident for two years, this seems to be that one time when we let our guard down for a moment or two. However it would be wise to caution him to drive at more sedate speeds. Whether it was his error in judgement or not, it could have turned into a ugly scene in a matter of seconds.

The discipline that you have mentioned is actually a combination of different factors. The safety of the car and its occupants and the unpleasantries involved in any accident, minor or major, always make me take my foot off the accelerator every time I am tempted to go fast. I do try and test the car sometimes to see the limits it can be pushed to, but I believe I have never really found that limit. I back off way before it. So the predominant emotion present here is that of fear. The moment I feel like pressing the accelerator and zoom past that car in front, I look at my wife or my mom or anyone else who is peacefully dozing off in the backseat, having trusted their lives to me. It's more than enough to shake off that thought from my mind.

And thanks for taking the feedback in a very positive manner! I hope you get out of the court case mess now, as soon as possible. Do keep us updated on the progress of the case, please.
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Old 31st January 2012, 17:23   #133
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Default Re: Four-year dream run comes to an end - Laura L&K accident

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...Highway driving is hit-and-miss given the number of idiots out there...
I really do not have any words to fully display the shock that I felt when I read this. I have been on Indian highways since the early 70s and and I am sorry to say that the attitude that "highway driving is hit-and-miss" is not acceptable.

If you cannot protect yourself from all the "idiots out there" it means that you are not competent and that you have no business to be on the highway.

If what you are saying is true and driving on highways was all a matter of fate and chance then I should have been dead by now looking at the number of years I have been on highways.

I feel that first and foremost you need to change this attitude. You need to believe that you can drive safely on highways and then you need to execute it.

Sorry but there was no mild way to say this.


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I would have also just slammed the brakes instead of swerving. But you know, you can never tell. Maybe swerving killed the car but saved the auto driver. One can never tell.
The braking systems assisted with ABS would have allowed him to steer even if he had the brakes slammed.

Here, the cops do not investigate but if you actually investigate, most of the times you will be able to find out what exactly happened. You need to at least make an effort in that direction. Start asking him questions. Ask your parents questions. Do it with an open mind and soon things will start falling into place.

In future, for safety on highways, you should tell your family to keep an eye on the road in addition to wearing seatbelts. At the end of the day, drivers are mostly illiterate people with absolutely no responsibility.

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Originally Posted by androdev View Post

Now the speed was certainly moderate for the car and the road. He is driving my parents so he would not have been doing crazy speeds, maybe 80-100. Also 60kmph is hard to stick to on a highway like this one.

I have experienced people suddenly jumping in front you on highways, and it is the most dangerous thing to happen to you and you just pray that you don't encounter such incidents.
The speed is neither according to the car nor is it according to the road. It is according to the situation.

We have a street here where during the day a car has to crawl behind pedestrians and at that time even 20kmph is too fast. When it is empty, you can easily drive on this road at 40kmph. So it all depends on the situation.

If there are multiple objects within your driving vision, you have to reduce your speed to be able to better deal with the fast changing dynamics at that time.

Poke around, investigate, I am sure you will come up with something instead of blindly believing that it was not your drivers fault that your beloved car got totalled.

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BTW, I also received a claim notice that makes me a party along with icici lombard. The auto driver is claiming compensation to the tune of 7 lakhs. I engaged a lawyer to deal with it and I think the case is going on at a very slow pace.
This is horrible. You should make your driver a party to the suit, so that he too feels the heat. Save him in the end, but let him feel the heat too.
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Old 22nd February 2012, 16:52   #134
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If the car is structurally unsound, the insurnace company should take the responsbility to ensure the car never gets back on the road. In the UK, the damage is categoried. The two most extreme cases, they take the responsibility to crush the bodyshell
Not here my friend!
Recently I saw an Innova on a flat bed in front of a roadside mechanics place (which I pass every day). The vehicle was badly damaged, had obviously rolled multiple times and the roof and pillars were caved in. The next morning when I passed by, the Innova had been shifted to behind the mechanics shed - not where they normally carry out repairs. I tried to find out from the mechanic about what he was going to do with the vehicle but his replies were extremely vague.
Over the next month or saw I saw the Innova being "repaired". One fine day it was back in front of the shed all painted and clean. I sent one of my friends to find out if it was for sale. He was told that the vehicle had already been sold.
I dread to think what the structural integrity/strength of that vehicle might be and also feel bad for the poor soul who, was obviously in the dark about the history of the vehicle, when he bought it.
I'm sure the same is going to happen to Androdevs car. It's probably somewhere near Cantt. Railway Station being "repaired" as we speak!

Last edited by John : 22nd February 2012 at 16:53.
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Old 6th August 2012, 08:00   #135
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Update after a long time:

Two things that dragged forever:

1. Transfer of the car ownership. The garage owner who bought the car never gave me papers (I also did not insist in the beginning and got tired of follow up later on). He took nearly a year to repair and sell the car. I took a third-party insurance even after selling the car to the garage owner just to be on the safe side. As you know, the ownership will change only when the garage owner manages to sell it to some real buyer. At best, you can take an affidavit from the garage owner that you are not liable for anything after the date of selling it to him. Even after this affidavit, you still have the onus to prove that the garage owner is responsible for all future claims, so it is better to take a 3rd party insurance till the ownership is changed in RTO records. Even at the end of this whole period, he did not send me the papers. I checked vahan.nic.in with my registration number and chassis number to come to know that the vehicle has been finally sold to someone. I took a print out of this vahan.nic.in records as a proof of ownership change. vahan.nic.in ROCKS! I should have been smarter to get this from the garage owner himself (by keeping something as a deposit, etc.)

2. The auto-driver who got injured in the accident went to the motor accidents claims tribunal and made a claim for 10odd lacs. In July this year, the court gave a judgement granting him a claim of Rs 20,000 or so (because he did not have a strong case).

So this chapter in my life is finally closed for good. Phew!

I would like to update this thread with some of the legal stuff based on my experience - it will be a bit slow as it is a busy month.

Always ensure that the vehicle has a valid insurance and the driver has a valid driving license. To be honest, I never bothered to check license of the driver I have employed!

Here is the legal notice I got from ICICI in their last ditch attempt to deny their liability:
Four-year dream run comes to an end - Laura L&K accident-picture-30.png
Four-year dream run comes to an end - Laura L&K accident-picture-31.png

More to come..

Last edited by androdev : 6th August 2012 at 08:04.
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