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Old 15th February 2006, 19:05   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979

Having extensivly driven santro on highways, I find it much more skittish than the indica. Though santro reaches higher speeds, corsswind stability is almost nill. Every time a bus passes you it feels as if the car will fly.
I think this problem will be there with all light weight high CG cars.
For those who flog their GL model getz and santro's a word of caution.
the tyres are 155R80. Infact in case of getz they are of lower speed rating than mentioned in user manual. So if you wanna drive 100+ get atleast 185+ tyres.
The crosswinds can be felt immediately after completing the overtake of a big vehicle, such as, a bus or a van, at high speeds (130+?). The Santro (the older ZipDrive model) does seem to quiver at times, although I wonder if this is a genuine stability issue. And there are sections on the Expressway where you feel very strong crosswinds even while not overtaking, especially during the monsoon season.

At present I am using the factory-fitted Bridgestone S322 tyres ('S' rated, for 180 kph). I plan to shift to tubeless tyres and alloy wheels by the end of this year, by which time the Bridgestone tyres would be over 6 years old. Here it seems that Bridgestone itself requires a tyre change only after 10 years, but other companies have recommended 6 years and I plan to play it safe. The tyres are still in excellent condition, having done only about 23000 kms. BHPians, like Speedsatya and Shan2nu, feel that the tyre change should be done earlier, after 4-5 years; but my budget doesn't quite permit the change at this time.

The overwhelming opinion of BHPians seems to be that the Santro is not safe at high speeds. I am prepared to bow to that opinion, but would like to see some more hard statistics. In particular, I would like to see the Xing compared to the older ZipDrive Santro; the Xing definitely has a different shape and dynamics and my hunch is that the older model could be more stable at high speeds -- I could be wrong here, of course. The Xing looks more stylish, but it seems to have less smooth contours and is more box-like, with the wind screen having a more vertical slope.

Regards, rks
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Old 15th February 2006, 19:38   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedsatya
and rks ...u say the santro is stable at 150 kph ...u are living on the edge ...that car is meant for city use ...its not for high speed driving ....brake suddenly at 150 kph or swerve at that speed...and u will be history ..please drive safe
I feel that the ZipDrive model of the Santro definitely has insufficient brakes at high speeds (and no ABS, of course). All I can say is that I do 150 kph only on dead straight sections of the Expressway and under fairly traffic-free conditions. I certainly don't want to be caught in a situation of having to brake hard or swerve sharply at 150 kph. But you are right, if one does get caught then it is a lottery.

Regards, rks
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Old 15th February 2006, 19:44   #33
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Guyz,
Thank u very much for all the appreciation..
Lets not get this thread turning into one about SANTRO and Laws of Physics...
It could have happened to any car... It was mostly about concerns over people not wearing seatbelts.. I am sure Santro is a well designed car...
Trust me I still dont have an answer to how it happened as mentioned earlier when i checked the tyres all rims were bent so cudnt really say.. Also there were some of fruits lying in and around the car.. may be the guy was eating and it cud have fallen from his hand and gone under the accelerator and must have braked or done something stupid...Another reason is there cud have been a stone on the road...
Lets not get analytical about it whatever the reason maybe...
Cheers
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Old 15th February 2006, 19:45   #34
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RKS, other T-BHPians have already talked a lot about Santro and it's stability. Nevertheless, I would like to stress on one particular point that many people tend to overlook (since you talked about zipping past bigger cars).

Each vehicle will have certain top speed. For Santro, it will be 150, for Baleno/Ikon/Petras it will be 180+ and for Mondeo/C class/Camries, it will be 220+. Now, a Baleno driver may drive at 130 and you can zip past him at 150. But big difference is that, he will always be in control of his car, while you most likely are not. Same holds good when a Baleno overtakes Mondeo at 170. Whenever we are pushing the car to its extreme limit, we surely are taking chances. Doing once in a while will be fun, but in doing so, we better acknowledge this fact.

Last edited by RX135 : 15th February 2006 at 19:46.
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Old 15th February 2006, 20:06   #35
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Hats off to you EVO. Not many would have done what you did.
Expressway is surely one risky place to be if you you are not sure of what you doing.
As for fruits, another theory, co-passenger might have handed fruit to driver & driver might have stupidly taken his attention away from driving.
For santro, lets keep that discussion to other threads.

PS: I agree with RX & his speed theory
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Old 15th February 2006, 20:25   #36
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Great job done Evo People like you are assets of team-bhp!

I too agree with what RX said about speed.
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Old 15th February 2006, 21:36   #37
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Sorry to hear about the accident, but these things do happen on highways/expressways almost everyday and there isn't much anyone would do. And at times, as Navin said u never know how the mob will react.

I would have stopped, but wouldn't dare to go and have a look, cuz i doubt i'll be comfy seeing all that blood and gore. So hats-off to u for offering a helping hand and do whatever u can. But as long as we don't have proper safety measures, there isnt much chance of survival for these victems
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Old 15th February 2006, 21:49   #38
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Well more than enough is said about saftey et al ...I'll just say
It takes a lot of courage to help people in distress...Hatsoff Evo6 for being a Good Samaritan..We are sure earned a place in heaven for your kind deed
My deep condolences for the the family

PS: Guys Please wear seatbelts ...we always take our cars for a ride...it will never hit u when its the other way round!!

Last edited by comfortablywacky : 15th February 2006 at 21:50.
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Old 15th February 2006, 22:31   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RX135
RKS, other T-BHPians have already talked a lot about Santro and it's stability. Nevertheless, I would like to stress on one particular point that many people tend to overlook (since you talked about zipping past bigger cars).

Each vehicle will have certain top speed. For Santro, it will be 150, for Baleno/Ikon/Petras it will be 180+ and for Mondeo/C class/Camries, it will be 220+. Now, a Baleno driver may drive at 130 and you can zip past him at 150. But big difference is that, he will always be in control of his car, while you most likely are not. Same holds good when a Baleno overtakes Mondeo at 170. Whenever we are pushing the car to its extreme limit, we surely are taking chances. Doing once in a while will be fun, but in doing so, we better acknowledge this fact.
First up, EVO, I wish I am half as responsive and responsible as you were when the time comes. I have had brushes with the mob and am uncertain.
Second, RX135 is right. Any vehicle+driver combination has a comfort zone - the top speeds of vehicles are absolutely theoretical speeds which are not where the vehicle is controlled well or handles sanely. The 'real top speed' for sane, responsible driving is probably much lower. For instance my City *can* do 150+ but I rarely exceed 120 even on straights on double track highways. The odd 130 does happen but I am most comfortable between 90-120 in abscence of traffic both ahead and behind, and slow down when there are other vehicles almost immediately.
Even so, I do say a small prayer cause a blowout at anything near the 3 digit speeds we do can be uncontrollable. All it needs is a little gravel or oil.

Nothing beats sensible driving. And that includes seat belts as well.
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Old 16th February 2006, 06:22   #40
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As everyone has said i hope everything works out for the people involved in this accident.
EVO, its typical herd mentality that everyone just drives by and noone helps out, because "if the guy in front of me just drove by, why should i stop?" is the common reasoning. I'm glad you chose to take some action. Sometimes even if you are helpless, but are just present to hold a hand it makes a difference.

Speaking of herd mentality (i dont know the specifics of this but) there was a test conducted where 5 people were to sit around a table, 4 of them were clued in as to what the test was about, and the remaining person was the subject.
Sometime during their conversation the fire alarm goes off, but the 4 people just continue as if nothing is wrong, and hence the 5th person just ignores the problem without even taking any action. Infact even after the room begins to fill with smoke the 5th person just does whatever the other 4 are doing.

If you get a chance to help, please don't be that 5th person.

(Needless to say when the experiment was conducted again and the 4 people ran, the 5th did too.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin
1I would suggest wearig a seat belt even if you are sitting in the back seat (some cars dont have them yet).
I think its required by law now to have rear seatbelts if i am not mistaken? (since mid-2003?)


Also, just FYI the "2 point" seatbelts you guys are refering to in this thread are actually 3-point (ELR) seatbelts (since they are fastened at 3 points). 2point belts would be the lapbelts (like seatbelts on airplanes etc).

About the santro discussion - its quite simple, its basically a fuction of the car's track, wheelbase and CG that determines how likely it is to turn turtle. Sad to say tallboys are more prone to this. It has nothing to do with price or manufacturer. Just pure vehicle dynamics. Look at the old Mercedes A-Class for example.
(and rks, since you were interested, there were reports of 2 or 3 santros flipping over while doing some handbrake turns in one of the threads about some event in bangalore (ask general_neo about it), just fyi.)

Drive safe. Buckle Up.

cya
R

Last edited by Rehaan : 16th February 2006 at 06:29.
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Old 16th February 2006, 06:58   #41
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This is so shocking and sad. Valuable lives are lost every year due to government apathy. I hope the survivors recover completely.

Quote:
In the meanwhile some MSRDC guyz arrive, who are supposed to manage the expressway.. They are of no help
The government makes big noises over how they have emergency personnel managing the expressway but it's really of no use having these emergency people if they don't know what they are there for.

High speed roads with poorly trained drivers and no emergency ambulances or para medics manning these roads. I can see lot of blood and gore on our high speed expressways/GQ's.
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Old 16th February 2006, 10:57   #42
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The following sequence needs to be followed :

1. Maintain your car well
2. Before a highway run, check the condition of the tyres...they are the most important when it comes to active safety.
3. Keep tyre pressure at prescribed levels all the time. You may increase tyre pressure slightly (say 1 psi) for a highway run.
4. Always wear seatbelts..both front and rear passengers.
5. Drive within the abilities of the car. If you are "aware" of its control limits, then speed is not an issue. Otherwise just stick to the speed limit. Most often we tend to push the car beyond its limits to feel the adrenaline rush. Avoid doing this as well as getting into a drag race with another car just to prove a point.

I am sure that if the above points are followed, fatal accidents will be reduced exponentially.
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Old 16th February 2006, 11:00   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rehaan
Also, just FYI the "2 point" seatbelts you guys are refering to in this thread are actually 3-point (ELR) seatbelts (since they are fastened at 3 points). 2point belts would be the lapbelts (like seatbelts on airplanes etc).

About the santro discussion - its quite simple, its basically a fuction of the car's track, wheelbase and CG that determines how likely it is to turn turtle. Sad to say tallboys are more prone to this. It has nothing to do with price or manufacturer. Just pure vehicle dynamics. Look at the old Mercedes A-Class for example.
(and rks, since you were interested, there were reports of 2 or 3 santros flipping over while doing some handbrake turns in one of the threads about some event in bangalore (ask general_neo about it), just fyi.)

Drive safe. Buckle Up.

cya
R
Yes i agree with the seatbelts thing .. They are 3-point and not the 2-point as advocated ..

Yes from personal experience (u can call it hearsay for all u know as it doesnt involve my experiences directly) .. 2 of moms collegue's had toplled santros .. One happened while he overcooked a turn on a ghat section (locked the brakes and tried swerving across i think) and the other happened when his son tried to handbrake and turn at high speeds .. Not to mention the live telecast that a few of us got when a santro xing guy tried to show off at the bangalore burnout drag and flipped trying to do some 180's and 360's ..
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Old 16th February 2006, 11:04   #44
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yeah its very important to drive within the limitations of your car ...if a vehicle of teh same make as yours is going faster ...one need not be provoked by it ...the other car may have better tires ..or may not be a stock car ....so when on long journeys ...its very important to have a properly maintained car with proper tires and with teh right tire pressure ....having h-rated or z-rated tires does not mean one can drive rashly ...it is very important to know ones own capabilty and drive within that ....
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Old 16th February 2006, 11:40   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedsatya
yeah its very important to drive within the limitations of your car ...if a vehicle of teh same make as yours is going faster ...one need not be provoked by it ...the other car may have better tires ..or may not be a stock car ....so when on long journeys ...its very important to have a properly maintained car with proper tires and with teh right tire pressure ....having h-rated or z-rated tires does not mean one can drive rashly ...it is very important to know ones own capabilty and drive within that ....
or even just "...i'm a less agressive driver...". No shame in that, in fact means you have a very mature head on those shoulders.
We must not glorify insane aggressive driving and not feel ashamed or 'lesser' for driving defensively. That, I believe is where it all starts....
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