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Old 18th March 2013, 16:22   #346
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Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
If you read the context of my reply it was against that hare brained suggestion to increase/introduce congestion tax and prevent people from driving cars.
Yes, I know. But even in that context, I don't see how having Nanos instead of Autos or having full sized cabs will help reduce congestion.

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Only when there are airconditioned metro trains, a/c buses with adequate frequency and good full sized cabs available will car owners be tempted to ditch private transport for public ones.
I don't see how substituting full sized cabs for private cars will help with traffic congestion.
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Old 18th March 2013, 16:32   #347
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Yes, I know. But even in that context, I don't see how having Nanos instead of Autos or having full sized cabs will help reduce congestion.



I don't see how substituting full sized cabs for private cars will help with traffic congestion.
I am confused now. Either I am not writing in plain English, or I fail to comprehend where from Nano has come into the picture.

Regarding the 'full sized cab' discussion here it goes.
My point on a cab is for me to ditch my car, I will not travel by rickety fiat/alto cabs which have not been cleant in years, breakdown frequently and leave me stranded everytime it rains. I need similar comfort and safety in a cab, as I have in my car. So I must have an option of a good mid sized sedan at least, to stop using my car.
No city in the world bans cabs in the name of easing traffic conjestion.

Mumbai's real cause of conjestion as detailed in posts above is illegal encroachments, on roads, illegal parking by private transport trucks, school buses, private buses, hand carts, illegal shanties, shops.
If the govt has the guts, they must takle these at a warfooting and then see if there is really a reason or need to cut down on private transport.

We dont have to look far for solutions, look east ward 700kms towards Hyderabad. The way the govt has destroyed illegal encroachments over the years, and broadend most of the roads, their infrastructre is world class now compared to Mumbai.
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Old 18th March 2013, 16:50   #348
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I am confused now. Either I am not writing in plain English, or I fail to comprehend where from Nano has come into the picture.
In this post - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/street...ml#post3066263 (Mumbai Traffic)
you talk about nano taxis.

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Regarding the 'full sized cab' discussion here it goes.
My point on a cab is for me to ditch my car, I will not travel by rickety fiat/alto cabs which have not been cleant in years, breakdown frequently and leave me stranded everytime it rains. I need similar comfort and safety in a cab, as I have in my car. So I must have an option of a good mid sized sedan at least, to stop using my car.
What do we achieve by making you ditch your car for a taxi? Will it reduce congestion? I don't any point in making you ditch your car for a taxi. That's why I don't how mid/full sized cabs will help reduce traffic congestion.

The purpose is not just to make you ditch your car - but rather it is to make you ditch you car in favour of something which will reduce congestion. Quite obviously, this something isn't a cab.
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Old 18th March 2013, 17:09   #349
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Default Re: Mumbai Traffic

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Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
Mumbai's real cause of conjestion as detailed in posts above is illegal encroachments, on roads, illegal parking by private transport trucks, school buses, private buses, hand carts, illegal shanties, shops.

We dont have to look far for solutions, look east ward 700kms towards Hyderabad. The way the govt has destroyed illegal encroachments over the years, and broadend most of the roads, their infrastructre is world class now compared to Mumbai.
+1 my friend.Though its a different topic 'once a mumbaikar ,always a mumbaikar' but am loving the infrastructure hyderabad has provided in the last 5 years of me living here (post living 29 years in mumbai,travelling malad to vashi for work/2 hrs one way(1 hour of that is was spent crossing powai) )
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Old 18th March 2013, 17:12   #350
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Default Re: Mumbai Traffic

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What do we achieve by making you ditch your car for a taxi? Will it reduce congestion? I don't any point in making you ditch your car for a taxi. That's why I don't how mid/full sized cabs will help reduce traffic congestion.

The purpose is not just to make you ditch your car - but rather it is to make you ditch you car in favour of something which will reduce congestion. Quite obviously, this something isn't a cab.
Last mile connectivity requires a cab service. Also in emergency people need taxis, also to commute to say airport etc. So cabs cant be done away with.
Buses and trains (metro, conventional, monorails) are obviously the best way to reduce conjestion.

Why has no one thought about exploiting our coastline? Thane to Gateway, Vasai, Borivali, Malad, Juhu, Versova to Gateway, Nerul, Belapur, Vashi to Gateway of India. we have readymade coastline suitable for fast ferry/hovercraft service for atleast 9 months of the year (even if they are shut for monsoons).
What prevents govt from making an alternate water based public transport? After all a ferry ride from any of the above mentioned places to the business center takes not more than 1.5 hrs. Only cost is to build infrastruture (jetties, parking lots, ticketing gates, water stations) and put in suitable rules and regulations.
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Old 18th March 2013, 17:21   #351
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Last mile connectivity requires a cab service.
Ok. I didn't realize you were talking about cabs only for last mile connectivity.
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Old 18th March 2013, 18:05   #352
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Why has no one thought about exploiting our coastline? Thane to Gateway, Vasai, Borivali, Malad, Juhu, Versova to Gateway, Nerul, Belapur, Vashi to Gateway of India. we have readymade coastline suitable for fast ferry/hovercraft service for atleast 9 months of the year (even if they are shut for monsoons).
What prevents govt from making an alternate water based public transport? After all a ferry ride from any of the above mentioned places to the business center takes not more than 1.5 hrs. Only cost is to build infrastruture (jetties, parking lots, ticketing gates, water stations) and put in suitable rules and regulations.
There were hovercraft services from juhu to town and likewise vashi to gateway.

Services were stopped for some reason ( i guess they were incurring heavy losses/fire at sea incident or something like that)

Lets say ,i want to travel from bandstand to mindspace in malad( malad creek flows right next to it ) definately a good alternate using the sea/creek i would say

Last edited by Rajesh Rawal : 18th March 2013 at 18:06.
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Old 18th March 2013, 18:17   #353
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Originally Posted by Rajesh Rawal View Post
but am loving the infrastructure hyderabad has provided in the last 5 years of me living here (post living 29 years in mumbai,travelling malad to vashi for work/2 hrs one way(1 hour of that is was spent crossing powai) )
Hello Rajesh,

Traffic situation at Powai has really improved in last 3 / 4 years. We now have Fly-Over passing above L & T Junction (Saki Vihar road) & couple of others small fly-overs at Powai also. Further the road outside IIT Main Gate is widened (almost doubled than what it used to be earlier). Also the roads is very well built & literally pot-hole free. The main pain area now remains from SEEPZ Gate No 3 to JVLR Junction on Western Express Highway.

Yes, road infrasture in Hyderabad is much better. I stayed there for 4 months during second half of 2010 & was really surprised by quality of roads there.

Thanks,
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Old 19th March 2013, 09:00   #354
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Originally Posted by Jignesh View Post
Traffic situation at Powai has really improved in last 3 / 4 years. We now have Fly-Over passing above L & T Junction (Saki Vihar road) & couple of others small fly-overs at Powai also. Further the road outside IIT Main Gate is widened (almost doubled than what it used to be earlier). Also the roads is very well built & literally pot-hole free.
Everytime I pass the IIT Powai area, I feel great thinking about the widened roads but then my thoughts are disturbed by few fly in the ointment such as the Ramakrishna hotel & the temple bang in the middle of the road and the root cause to traffic jams, road rages etc. Add to that inspite of walkway bridge available right opp to the IIT main gate people still crossing roads, taxis parked haphazardly and all this happening right under the nose of the traffic cops and the municipal authorities.
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Old 19th March 2013, 09:18   #355
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Default Re: Mumbai Traffic

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What do we achieve by making you ditch your car for a taxi? Will it reduce congestion? I don't any point in making you ditch your car for a taxi. That's why I don't how mid/full sized cabs will help reduce traffic congestion.
That's an interesting thought. If I drive to work in my own car, I need parking space throughout the day when I shall not be using the car. Most offices, even in Mumbai and around, do not provide sufficient parking space to the office staff, so this means I shall have to park on the road/roadside etc.

If I were to rent a cab, I wouldn't need the parking space, and the roads would then be relatively less cluttered.

Also the cab could pick me up and drop me to my office, and then do the same for many other people. So during a whole day, one cab could eliminate the need to bring at least eight to ten cars on the road.

So at least by these two ways, using a cab instead of a private car works out to be better.

Where it doesn't work out better is the cost. Paying upwards of Rs. 20 per km of travel is grossly outrageous when you consider my Nano does it for Rs. 3/- per litre. Even if I had a driver with a salary of 10k, it would add around Rs. 10 per km, the total working out to Rs. 13/- per km. It's still half of what it costs to travel by a cab.

Extending the thought of Nano taxies in a different direction, there could be different types of taxies with different fare structures. The problem today is if you exclude the private transport, there are only two modes of public road transport: Bus or Taxi. Out of which a car-owner would most likely opt for a taxi. And all taxies are in one of the two fixed-fare brackets. A cab such as Meru will always be a mid-sized sedan and will always be priced higher, but a cab using a hatchback could be used at a lower price point to attract the car owners. A fare of Rs. 15-16 per km would be good to attract these people.

However it also must be stressed that the ground realities are often in contrast. Whenever there is a bandh by the auto and taxi unions, the streets are generally empty and free of traffic jams. However whenever the BEST buses are off the roads, the roads are clogged like a choked drain.

Also the cabs and autos plying empty should be stopped. For every km of vacant run (without a passenger), the driver/owner should be fined some amount. This will provide an incentive to them to carry passengers as much as possible.
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Old 19th March 2013, 09:46   #356
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Also the cab could pick me up and drop me to my office, and then do the same for many other people. So during a whole day, one cab could eliminate the need to bring at least eight to ten cars on the road.
How does that help?
That one cab will congest the roads as much as the 8 to 10 cars. i.e. if a particular journey takes 1 hour, 8 private cars would be on the road for 8 hours. 1 cab doing the same journey 8 times would also be on the road for 8 hours.

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Where it doesn't work out better is the cost. Paying upwards of Rs. 20 per km of travel is grossly outrageous when you consider my Nano does it for Rs. 3/- per litre. Even if I had a driver with a salary of 10k, it would add around Rs. 10 per km, the total working out to Rs. 13/- per km. It's still half of what it costs to travel by a cab.
Actually cost is the only way cabs may make sense. You have forgotten to include the cost of the car and maintenance in your calculations. If include that also, then a taxi may prove cheaper for people who travel less than say 400-500 kms a month (I had done these calculations long back - the exact figure may have changed).


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Also the cabs and autos plying empty should be stopped. For every km of vacant run (without a passenger), the driver/owner should be fined some amount. This will provide an incentive to them to carry passengers as much as possible.
How will you monitor the kms here - are you planning to put a traffic policeman in each car?
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Old 19th March 2013, 10:39   #357
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The main problem with Mumbai is poor traffic management and poor condition of the roads. Junctions feel like a big speed bump waiting to destroy the suspension of your car and make a milk shake of the occupants inside.

Constant Digging and missing paver blocks, those man holes which could be as much as six inches above the road or below the road level.

The bottle necks with hap hazard parking makes the movement very slow.

If only the roads are made like roads and rules are followed then the traffic can be improved by more than 40%.

Authorities instead of doing the basics right want to implement something ambitious that will splurge tax payers money and in the end we will be right where we started.

Traffic cannot improve unless we start from basics!
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Old 19th March 2013, 10:56   #358
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Everytime I pass the IIT Powai area, I feel great thinking about the widened roads but then my thoughts are disturbed by few fly in the ointment such as the Ramakrishna hotel & the temple bang in the middle of the road and the root cause to traffic jams, road rages etc. Add to that inspite of walkway bridge available right opp to the IIT main gate people still crossing roads, taxis parked haphazardly and all this happening right under the nose of the traffic cops and the municipal authorities.
And there are 2/3 wheelers who come from the wrong side on the service road, near the foot over bridge. The number of such people is so huge that the policeman is helpless. Sometimes, he musters enough courage to send back those people. Add suicide bikers to this maddening list. Everyday, I notice a large number of them who go straight or take right turn from my left - when I'm at the left most lane and my left indicator is on. This happens at Saffron Spice.

Overall, I say that the Powai portion of JVLR is very badly designed and managed. Authorities know about traffic jams/bottlenecks and have done nothing credible to solve the problems.
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Old 19th March 2013, 11:13   #359
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Hello All,

While going through above posts, I notice one point - nobody has stretched importance of self discipline on part of Private vehicles ownes / drivers.

I understand that driving & parking habits of Taxi, Auto & Bus is a problem. But thinking from their point of view, they are plying on these roads literally fighting for their livelyhood / survival. No matter what happens, on seeing a prospective customer Auto or Taxi driver is going to stop right on middle of the road - as they are not educated enough to understand civic sense.

When it comes to authorities not maintaining the roads properly we all know the commission structure in Indian Government tender system. There is no one person / department to blame here. The entire system is corrupt & better not discussed here. Once in a while a honest officer takes charge, only to be transferred to some training & development department soon (where he cannot block the business of commission agents).

Now, coming to private vehicles, I feel they have to share the equal blame of current situation of Mumbai traffic. Just one visit to Mahavir Nagar (Kandivali West), S.V.Road - Malad West (near Milap cinema), Mithibai college (opp. Bhaidas Hall) & Amar Juice center, etc, & you will see how educated & upper middle class people park their cars literally on roads just enjoy a pizza or grill sandwich or juice.

Just notice at any junction & you will witness many private vehicles cutting lanes merrily & even abusing others who are waiting silently.

Further vehicle owners should themselves not take their cars out if they are travelling very short distances like 1 to 3 kms (except they have to ferry old / disabled passengers)

I feel if we as private vehicle owners observe discipline, Mumbai traffic & roads will be in much better shape.

Thanks,
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Old 19th March 2013, 12:30   #360
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Super-duper traffic today on the highway from Santacruz to Kherwadi signal. After crossing that signal it was smooth sailing with no que at the Sealink tollbooth!
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