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Old 15th September 2011, 10:40   #31
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Default Re: Accident caused due to Unawareness of ABS Behavior

This is a clear case of driver error. It is completely wrong to blame ABS here. It was the driver's fault to release the brake after ABS kicked in. Also, why in the world was he swerving at 120+ in a tall SUV. The center of gravity is so high. I think after the ABS came on, he must have got scared and probably drifted (did not pay attention to road) and to correct the drift he turned sharply which resulted in an overturn.

I always wonder why drivers are never trained in basic safety steps such as this. It can save lives as well as the car. Also, it is very easy to test the ABS on a car and familiarize yourself with it. All you need is a road filled with small stones (gravel); even mud works. Drive at around 35-40kmph and then slam the brakes and you will feel the ABS kick in. This should be practiced to become familiar with the ABS mechanism.
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Old 15th September 2011, 10:45   #32
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Originally Posted by vnabhi
I have a relative who also ran over a divider to avoid a freak swerve from another car, and the airbags got deployed though he says he was not wearing a seatbelt. So are you sure that airbags will not be deployed if seatbelts are not worn, or is that only a theoretical myth?
Your relative is right. Airbag deployment does not depend on seatbelt usage and is an independent feature that gets activated upon frontal impact (front airbags).

Know this by experience.
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Old 15th September 2011, 10:46   #33
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Default Re: Accident caused due to Unawareness of ABS Behavior

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Originally Posted by vnabhi View Post
It appears both airbags were deployed. So if the owner had taken his seatbelt off, how did that one go off? I have a relative who also ran over a divider to avoid a freak swerve from another car, and the airbags got deployed though he says he was not wearing a seatbelt. So are you sure that airbags will not be deployed if seatbelts are not worn, or is that only a theoretical myth?
If the car has seat belt pre-tensioner and a transducer connected to the air-bag circuit then and only then would the air-bags deploy only when the seat belt is buckled.

If there is no pretensioner, then air-bags deploy independently and are not interlinked to buckling.

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Originally Posted by Maibaa View Post
Your relative is right. Airbag deployment does not depend on seatbelt usage and is an independent feature that gets activated upon frontal impact (front airbags).

Know this by experience.
Not always, read above!

Quote:
Originally Posted by arun_josie View Post
What kind of test was it to get used to ABS? Can you please share?
For quite some time I am thinking to test ABS in my car but not sure on what kind of road, speed the test should be performed.
Just go to such a road where a two wheeler doing 30-40 kmph would skid off if it brakes suddenly (ideally roads with loose gravel, mud, oil slicks, un tarred roads etc) make sure the road is empty, go upto speeds of 30-40kmph and brake suddenly if ABS kicked in, your brake pedal would judder continuously, simple. You should not let go of the brake that moment.

The next thing you need to practice is to prepare your brain to maneuver around an imaginary obstruction while panic braking and when ABS kicked in. Make sure to check the ORVMs while swerving off and do not do this to the extreme. This would just help your brain to be prepared in case of braking on seeing an obstruction; otherwise the general reflex is to slam the brakes and maintain the same direction into the obstruction hoping that nothing happens.

Last edited by anilisanil : 15th September 2011 at 11:11.
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Old 15th September 2011, 10:57   #34
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Default Re: Accident caused due to Unawareness of ABS Behavior

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Originally Posted by keyur View Post
When my friend bought a Cruze recently, the first thing we did is to help him get used to the ABS!
What kind of test was it to get used to ABS? Can you please share?
For quite some time I am thinking to test ABS in my car but not sure on what kind of road, speed the test should be performed.
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Old 15th September 2011, 10:58   #35
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Default Re: Accident caused due to Unawareness of ABS Behavior

It is interesting to understand from this discussion how ABS is so important on Indian roads.
However, what is most important is to use common sense. It is very easy to say that the speed limit is 100 and the driver was doing just 20 or 30 clicks above the limit. IMHO, that is not really the main problem. The defined limit for that road may be 100 but for any driver to consider himself a good one it is most important to understand his own limitations vis a vis the vehicle he is driving. If he can control the vehicle only upto 100 then he should have ensured that he didnt cross that limit regardless of what the vehicle can or cannot do. In other words, a vehicle should go only as fast as the driver can control it. But thats an ideal situation and sense isnt so common after all.

It seems this driver has spent most of his years driving non ABS vehicles and has no idea how to identify ABS kicking in. Most probably at that moment, he panicked and thought that probably a wheel came off or a tyre burst or an axle broke or the road cracked open to swallow his steering column or whatever. Of course, in panic situations there is no room for thought and everything is based on pure reflexes. In this case, as his reflexes were tuned to handling a different type of car, he let go of the brakes.

Which brings us back to the point that better equipped cars are actually more dangerous for those who dont know how they function.

First and foremost, there are no stringent rules which ensure that vehicles dont cross 100 (or whatever the speed limit is) on our highways. There should be adequate patrolling and steep fines/ legal action to prevent this.

Secondly, if this is not being done it is the responsibility of each driver to ensure that if he/ she cannot manage to drive at reasonable limits (between 80 and 100), he/ she should not drive on these roads at all till they are properly trained. They are risking their own life/ property but also risking the life/ property of others by driving at such high speeds.

Last edited by selfdrive : 15th September 2011 at 11:00.
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Old 15th September 2011, 11:18   #36
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Default Re: Accident caused due to Unawareness of ABS Behavior

If ABS creeped him out, it means it was an unfamiliar vehicle.
And frankly, if you drive at 120 in an unfamiliar, top-heavy vehicle, you should not be looking at passing the blame to the car and its technology.
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Old 15th September 2011, 11:23   #37
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Default Re: Accident caused due to Unawareness of ABS Behavior

Thank god that the passengers are safe! In the interest of a larger audience can anyone clearly articulate how ABS works? I think we can create awareness at least thru this forum.
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Old 15th September 2011, 11:28   #38
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Default Re: Accident caused due to Unawareness of ABS Behavior

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Originally Posted by Klub Class View Post
This is exactly the reason why all the car manufactures provide us the 'owners manual' at the time of purchase!!
In SW lingo, RTFM. Even after the automobile has had many technological improvements which aid safety, a majority of people still think that it's only necessary to understand what a clutch, brake accelerator and steering to drive a car. How many people, even owners, let alone drivers, feel that it's necessary to read the manual before driving off in a new car?

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Originally Posted by vnabhi View Post
Hats off to you, Keyur, for playing the role of a good samaritan, and helping accident victims! Really appreciate it.
+1. Many people would just drive away after looking at the scene. You did the right thing and hats off for that.
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Old 15th September 2011, 11:31   #39
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Default Re: Accident caused due to Unawareness of ABS Behavior

From my experience kicking in of ABS can be quite unnerving if you are not used to the same. Some times I feel an experienced driver can handle the brakes more effecitvely in emergency than ABS.
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Old 15th September 2011, 11:32   #40
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Default Re: Accident caused due to Unawareness of ABS Behavior

Keyur , fantastic exemplary behaviour on your part - I hope your efforts rub off on many of us around .

Without the ABS , if you jam the brake on a SUV with high CG it would easily flip - just imagine , the fulcrum point would be the locked front wheel ( since the driver jammed the brakes) , the momentum of the CG is forward so the end result would be a lever effect !
In fact IMO the occupants were saved from much more serious injury because the flip happened after hitting the barrier by which time the speed would have been arrested to a large extent.
The tyres marks make it look like , it was being driven by one of those nut case drivers who try to overtake with all 4 beyond the yellow line demarcation on the expressway . Thats strewn with gravel and fine sand especially with monsoon run offs
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Old 15th September 2011, 11:33   #41
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Default Re: Accident caused due to Unawareness of ABS Behavior

Quote:
Originally Posted by sumathindra View Post
Thank god that the passengers are safe! In the interest of a larger audience can anyone clearly articulate how ABS works? I think we can create awareness at least thru this forum.

Wheels turn- circular motion. This circular motion becomes linear motion when the wheels are fixed to a body.

Now, the concept of braking is to reduce the speed of circular motion thereby reducing the linear speed of your vehicle, but for this the prerequisite is that the wheels continue to have circular motion.

If the wheels get locked (they do for various reasons, lets just assume that they do) braking is no more valid because it just tries to stop circular motion (which already stopped owing to locked wheels) now, the vehicle still would have linear motion owing to its initial momentum, causing the vehicle to skid (or topple and hence with no control) into the zone of danger and causing damage.

Now what ABS does is that it prevents the wheels from getting locked, so you still can brake and have control on your vehicle unlike above and there are chances, if you use your instincts that you could maneuver your way out of the danger zone that made you panic brake, simple!

Last edited by anilisanil : 15th September 2011 at 11:38.
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Old 15th September 2011, 12:08   #42
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Default Re: Accident caused due to Unawareness of ABS Behavior

ABS is something that all drivers should be educated about. The first time I noticed it, I felt there may be something wrong and asked the service center about it (my earlier Zen did not have it). Later I tried to brake hard to let ABS to kick in, but I was not braking fast enough for it to kick in.

Yes, I felt scared the first time ABS kicked in and I am guilty of not reading the owner's manual.
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Old 15th September 2011, 12:09   #43
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Default Re: Accident caused due to Unawareness of ABS Behavior

@keyur, Kudos Mate.

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Originally Posted by anilisanil View Post
Wheels turn- circular motion. .. that made you panic brake, simple!
Nice explanation Anil.
But it would be great if some one could also please describe, what to expect when the ABS kicks in. Yes the rotation will be there and the steering control will be active, that much is obvious i guess, but what about the throbbing which made the driver panic? How much of a throbbing should we expect and stuff like that!
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Old 15th September 2011, 12:24   #44
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Default Re: Accident caused due to Unawareness of ABS Behavior

If it was a chhaufer then problem is driving skill. Most of the paid drivers in India dont know how to drive a car properly let alone, the act of controlling the vehicle at high speeds and in a SUV they think they can do anything.
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Old 15th September 2011, 12:35   #45
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Default Re: Accident caused due to Unawareness of ABS Behavior

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Originally Posted by Statement View Post
@keyur, Kudos Mate.



Nice explanation Anil.
But it would be great if some one could also please describe, what to expect when the ABS kicks in. Yes the rotation will be there and the steering control will be active, that much is obvious i guess, but what about the throbbing which made the driver panic? How much of a throbbing should we expect and stuff like that!
Well, one does not need to bother about anything else. If you have an ABS enabled vehicle, one just needs to stand on brake if need be and never let go off the brakes. The brake pedal will judder or make noise and the levels may vary, but the bottom line is brake as much as you deem it necessary and try to maneuver your vehicle.

I don't think there is anything to get unnerved about ABS kicking in. In the route I take, my car's ABS kicks in everyday(mostly at speeds as low as 30-40kmph), well almost!!


Let's not create an aura of fear around ABS, and also remember ABS does not mean lesser or more stopping distances, it just means braking without locking your wheels. Period!

Last edited by anilisanil : 15th September 2011 at 12:37.
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