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Old 24th September 2011, 05:34   #106
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Default Re: Driver ignorant of how ABS works; Turns Chevy Captiva upside down

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Originally Posted by nd81 View Post
Indian roads are't designed for 100 kmph + speed
And what exactly would make you say that? Is that a generic statement or do you have any examples of Expressways that are not designed for 100+ speeds? What kind of design would be required to allow vehicles to go safely above 100 in your opinion?
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Old 24th September 2011, 09:55   #107
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Default Re: Driver ignorant of how ABS works; Turns Chevy Captiva upside down

[quote=keyur;2516988]I used to think I was the only one getting irritated by this!

bang on!! face the same issues on the highways, nh9,nh7, nh4 etc!!! and its getting worse day by day
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Old 24th September 2011, 11:06   #108
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Default Re: Driver ignorant of how ABS works; Turns Chevy Captiva upside down

Glad that the occupants are safe.

while calling the driver as moron and pounding him for not knowing how the ABS system works, is there any point considered what if something got screwed up with ABS itself, brakes or any mechanical failures? not all accidents are caused by human errors. I'm not defending the driver but just thought of other dimension.

This thread would be more embarrassing for him than the accident itself
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Old 24th September 2011, 18:24   #109
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Default Re: Driver ignorant of how ABS works; Turns Chevy Captiva upside down

Special thanks to Keyur for setting up an example.

-Never press the clutch on any type of braking (normal/panic or ABS/nonABS). It will surely increase the braking distance. ( Lot of car drivers do this). By instinct you will always press the clutch when the car slows down. It happens automatically and one would never stall the engine at any cost.(Sleep & drunken driving are exceptions)
-Braking distance is less in ABS vehicles due to larger size of brake pads & drums.
-Petrol vehicles braking distances are less compared to diesel vehicles as the closing of fuel injection pumps take more time than petrol. May be bit different in ECM controlled diesel engines.
-Better to learn braking by downshifts in slippery roads and driving down on a hill.
-Practical driving experience is the key. Vast driving experiences helps a lot in panicky situations whether it is ABS or not.
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Old 25th September 2011, 00:46   #110
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Default Re: Driver ignorant of how ABS works; Turns Chevy Captiva upside down

It's just that if I or any of my dear ones ever need any help (any help), I would not want someone to just pass by (slightly selfish motive ). I make it a point to help wherever I can, and also ensure that I tell the person whom I have helped to pass it on - my little bit for helping improve people's attitude!

At the outset let me say that you did the right thing by stopping and offering help,not very many people do that in India .We do have time to stand and stare but no one comes forward to help.Well done .The thread has generated good amount of response which is good.
I do agree with you that the first time one experiences the ABS kicking in it is unnerving,and it kicks in even at very low speeds.
It was definitely the drivers mistake period.Thank God he did'nt kill somebody,and himself escaped unhurt.
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Old 26th September 2011, 10:23   #111
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Default Re: Driver ignorant of how ABS works; Turns Chevy Captiva upside down

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Originally Posted by nd81 View Post
Indian roads are't designed for 100 kmph + speed. Freeways in Europe/US can handle these kind of speeds. Occupants of the car are very lucky.
Please come and drive on mumbai-pune express way . One of the best roads i have driven on.
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Old 26th September 2011, 10:37   #112
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Default Re: Driver ignorant of how ABS works; Turns Chevy Captiva upside down

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Originally Posted by nd81 View Post
Indian roads are't designed for 100 kmph + speed. Freeways in Europe/US can handle these kind of speeds.
During day time, when the visibility is very good, I normally drive between 120 kmph and 150 kmph, regularly on the Madras - Bangalore or the Salem - Bangalore route; some times at about 125 kmph for over an hour constantly.

My concentration level (as a policy I drive only between 0500 to 1400 hours), condition of my car (always goes for a general check-up before a long drive), road traffic, visibility, how well I know the road, are some of the things that decide my speed.
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Old 26th September 2011, 11:23   #113
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Default Re: Driver ignorant of how ABS works; Turns Chevy Captiva upside down

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Originally Posted by keyur View Post
While driving towards Mumbai, just after the Khalapur toll booth, I saw a just-occurred accident (White Chevy Captiva). I felt compelled to help, parked the car, crossed the expressway and went over to see what I could do.

This was the scene that I saw.

Attachment 609641


Luckily, both the driver and the owner were unhurt except for a few bruises and cuts. Both were shocked (obvious). I had some pain killers and some antiseptic powder in my car, so fetched them from the car and ensured that the owner took some. Administered basic first aid. While a tow crane came in, had a chat with the driver. This is the excerpt.


The driver was coming towards the toll booth and was around 120-140. While reducing the speed he ended up swerving a bit. In trying to get the vehicle in control, he braked a bit hard and the ABS kicked in. The vehicle continued maneuvering after the braking and the driver ended up colliding against the barrier. The vibrations due to the ABS scared him (probably never had experienced the ABS kicking in before) and he released the brake. The rest was confusing for him, but the vehicle flipped, tumbled, landed on it's nose, then turned turtle.

Here are the skid marks of the vehicle. You can see from where it started, how the driver lost control etc. The side barrier was also torn out from the road side and landed a good 200 feet away.


Attachment 609647

Attachment 609648


A few more pics of the accident :

Attachment 609642

Attachment 609643

Attachment 609644

Attachment 609645

Attachment 609646

Attachment 609649

Attachment 609650
Government has recommended a maximum speed of 80 kmph on Mumbai-Pune Express Highway. Though touching 100 kmph is ok. But we all Indians must remember that we are no great drivers driving at high speed. None of us in India have been trained to drive at high speeds just like there is a training in Germany for driving on Autobhans specially. We must all remember that we must command the machine till its controllable limits. Ensure others safety along with yours.

Also be carefule while administering the pain killers. You never are an expert like a doctor and will never know the actual condition of the injured person.

Last edited by wartikars : 26th September 2011 at 11:25.
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Old 26th September 2011, 11:37   #114
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Default Re: Driver ignorant of how ABS works; Turns Chevy Captiva upside down

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Originally Posted by wartikars View Post
Government has recommended a maximum speed of 80 kmph on Mumbai-Pune Express Highway. Though touching 100 kmph is ok. But we all Indians must remember that we are no great drivers driving at high speed. None of us in India have been trained to drive at high speeds just like there is a training in Germany for driving on Autobhans specially. We must all remember that we must command the machine till its controllable limits. Ensure others safety along with yours.
This is the strangest statement I have come across in Team-BHP. You must also remember the all Indians don't just drive in India. Lot of us here have driven extensively outside in India too, and are no strangers to high-speed driving on world class highways around the world. Now even India has many high speed highways. However, the heterogeneous traffic in Indian unfamiliar with lane driving makes it dangerous to go higher than 100kmph. On deserted highways with good visibility, higher speeds are quite possible.
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Old 26th September 2011, 11:50   #115
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Default Re: Driver ignorant of how ABS works; Turns Chevy Captiva upside down

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This is the strangest statement I have come across in Team-BHP. You must also remember the all Indians don't just drive in India. Lot of us here have driven extensively outside in India too, and are no strangers to high-speed driving on world class highways around the world. Now even India has many high speed highways. However, the heterogeneous traffic in Indian unfamiliar with lane driving makes it dangerous to go higher than 100kmph. On deserted highways with good visibility, higher speeds are quite possible.
Samurai, I am talking about only the Indian scenario and you have rightly mentioned that we have a heterogeneous traffic in Indian. Again the vehicles in fast paced countries are built for that need. In Germany where the speed of a car is 120-140 kmps, the cars are very heavy as compared to the cars in Asia or India. You will not find any non-German cars on Autobhan, except if they are driven by the people coming from neighbouring EU countries. And while driving a rear wheel drive, the driver should be careful about the speeds double than the driver driving a front wheel drive or a 4X4.

Indian cars are more built for cost effectiveness and are light. I have also driven in US, Germany & South Africa. And one must remember we Indian learn driving by experience and not by training. The driving program in Indian driving school and in developed countries is having a vast difference. Again in India any Tom, Dick and Harry can get a driving license throughan agent and the most import thing (which doesn't happen in developed countries). And not many driving schools in India teach something called as a driving sense.

And remember my dear friend .... We are new to the concept of Express Highway in India. The US & Germany have it for past 50+ years. And the government is not crazy to set up 80 kmps as the speed limit.

Last edited by wartikars : 26th September 2011 at 11:52.
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Old 26th September 2011, 12:01   #116
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Default Re: Driver ignorant of how ABS works; Turns Chevy Captiva upside down

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Originally Posted by wartikars View Post
Samurai, I am talking about only the Indian scenario and you have rightly mentioned that we have a heterogeneous traffic in Indian. Again the vehicles in fast paced countries are built for that need. In Germany where the speed of a car is 120-140 kmps, the cars are very heavy as compared to the cars in Asia or India. You will not find any non-German cars on Autobhan, except if they are driven by the people coming from neighbouring EU countries. And while driving a rear wheel drive, the driver should be careful about the speeds double than the driver driving a front wheel drive or a 4X4.

Indian cars are more built for cost effectiveness and are light. I have also driven in US, Germany & South Africa. And one must remember we Indian learn driving by experience and not by training. The driving program in Indian driving school and in developed countries is having a vast difference. Again in India any Tom, Dick and Harry can get a driving license throughan agent and the most import thing (which doesn't happen in developed countries). And not many driving schools in India teach something called as a driving sense.

And remember my dear friend .... We are new to the concept of Express Highway in India. The US & Germany have it for past 50+ years. And the government is not crazy to set up 80 kmps as the speed limit.

err, wrong.
an E in germany, and in india, weighs the same.
stop the generalization please.
A lot of us practised hard to learn the correct way to drive, than to go by the driving school methodology.
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Old 26th September 2011, 12:08   #117
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Default Re: Driver ignorant of how ABS works; Turns Chevy Captiva upside down

Well, you did say all Indians! That is not true.
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Old 26th September 2011, 12:10   #118
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Default Re: Driver ignorant of how ABS works; Turns Chevy Captiva upside down

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err, wrong.
an E in germany, and in india, weighs the same.
stop the generalization please.
A lot of us practised hard to learn the correct way to drive, than to go by the driving school methodology.
An E in Germany is far more different than the E in India. Right from quality to the size.

You are right we practice hard on our own to learn the correct way. But learning in a methodolgical way is way better. Its like the difference of getting an MBA from Harvards or MIT (US) and getting it from some other institute/university. Well there is a difference between you learning on your own and getting a training with sound technical & other guidance from an experienced trainer is different (we Indians never understand because we are always short of money and time as we want everythign quick and cheap due to the rat race here). When you are learning on your own you are learing by trial and error method which is more dangerous. Well there is a whole lot of difference between the quality of a driver in Germany & US and US & Germany & India.

Samurai! I don't wish to take this arguement further as you have your views and I have mine. Let us not litter this forum with spaming.
Thanks for your valuable input.

Last edited by wartikars : 26th September 2011 at 12:12.
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Old 26th September 2011, 12:11   #119
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Default Re: Driver ignorant of how ABS works; Turns Chevy Captiva upside down

I thnk we need much better driver education in India. Also, from the government side, there are some ridiculous speed limits that are enforced in a very queer way. For example, I was driving in Kerala and was pulled over for speeding - I was going at about 70km/hour in a 40 km/hr zone. I asked the officer at speed was I clocked on - he said "77 km/hr". To prove this he actually let me listen to the computerized reading on his walkie talkie. Now comes the odd part.

I asked him where were the boards . He said "there were a couple of them by the road". I asked him "where?". He couldnt give me a straight answer. After this incident, btw, i did see a couple of boards practically hidden behind trees - nowhere very visible to a driver.

So - I asked him, in the absence of visible boards, how can you stop me? He answered that actually they only stop people who go above 70. Also, I asked him what kind of ridiculous speed limit is 40 on a highway where most people are going double - he couldnt answer. Mind you , this is an open stretch of road, not near a town or village.

The point is - how can one establish a unrealistic speed limit and allow a driver to anyway go almost twice the limit??? I think our motor regulations need serious looking into.
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Old 26th September 2011, 12:18   #120
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Default Re: Driver ignorant of how ABS works; Turns Chevy Captiva upside down

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Well there is a whole lot of difference between the quality of a driver in Germany & US and US & Germany & India.
Well, I learnt driving in USA and drove there for a decade. Does it help my argument?

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Originally Posted by wartikars View Post
Samurai! I don't wish to take this arguement further as you have your views and I have mine. Let us not litter this forum with spaming.
Spamming? This is not spamming. You made a blanket statement combing all Indian drivers into one category. There is a difference between traffic rules ignorant Indian drivers and traffic rule aware and complying Indian drivers. Most BHPians fall into the latter category. Therefore, we have the right to dispute your statement.
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