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Old 24th July 2014, 18:25   #15841
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Originally Posted by msdivy View Post
Have read somewhere that it is difficult to judge the speed of the train at a level crossing. The view is only from front, the train seems like be approaching. Since there is no side view, it is difficult to judge speed.
Just a bit off-topic, I remember about 8 years ago while waiting at extreme south end of Kandivili station platform 1 I saw a EMU local proceed at what seemed very very slowly -- maybe 5 kmph -- (to not collide with people crossing). Once it moved into the platform, and view became side-on I realised it was proceeding at a brisk 15 kmph. When viewed end-on it is very difficult to assess the speed of these trains (which is why I guess so many lose their lives in level crossings)
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Old 24th July 2014, 18:26   #15842
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Default re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by msdivy View Post
Have read somewhere that it is difficult to judge the speed of the train at a level crossing. The view is only from front, the train seems like be approaching. Since there is no side view, it is difficult to judge speed.
That's correct, but that is the time that one has to stop being a Judge, isn't it simple enough to understand, when you are seeing a Train approaching stay away from its path.

And why on Earth at this time we still have unmanned crossings anywhere, how much infrastructure is needed to create manned crossings? Where is the Rail Budget guy (I am not sure if its his job), instead introducing luxury trains etc., why can't we have a more sensible protocol for such intersections?
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Old 24th July 2014, 18:29   #15843
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Default re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by msdivy View Post
Have read somewhere that it is difficult to judge the speed of the train at a level crossing.
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Originally Posted by amitoj View Post
Also, if the train is coasting, it won't make any sound either. That makes it even more difficult to judge it's speed.
Not being able to judge the speed of a train is no reason for driving a bus full of school children directly in its path in the ignorant confidence that the bus will make it across before the train gets there. I remember a 30 sec ad that used to appear on DD which showed the conductor of a State transport bus get down at a crossing, check both sides to ensure no train was approaching and then signal the bus to cross. That is the right thing to do.
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Old 24th July 2014, 18:34   #15844
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Default re: Pics: Accidents in India

Just watched in news that the regular Bus driver was on leave, this was a replacement guy who was driving the bus at time of accident.
I fail to understand how can one miss observing the train. Bus got dragged for 200+ mtrs. means train was not just coasting. Certainly the train driver would have used horn to warn the bus driver. Trains are known to honk a lot. A fast approaching train is missed ? Yes, there could be judgement errors like the train seems to be slow when at a distance, but the bus driver could have had time to react if he was slow or attentive. This accident of bus getting hit by train and kids dying is a blunder on part of bus driver. Unmanned station means ( or rather demands ) more attention.

Feeling sad for those innocent lives which are lost due to a mistake on somebody's part. News channel were blaming Railways which I believe is not to be blamed.

Last edited by aaggoswami : 24th July 2014 at 18:36.
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Old 24th July 2014, 18:46   #15845
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Default re: Pics: Accidents in India

Feel sad for those innocent kids who lost their lives for no fault of theirs. Sounds pretty much like those accidents shared a few months back on social network, some CCTV footage of highway accidents. The footage shows how impatient and careless people are at intersections.
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Old 24th July 2014, 18:48   #15846
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Default re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by luvDriving View Post
Not being able to judge the speed of a train is no reason for driving a bus full of school children directly in its path in the ignorant confidence that the bus will make it across before the train gets there.
'Not being able to judge' - in fact this is exactly the reason for this accident. No wants an accident, no body wants to die, including the replacement driver manning the bus.
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Correct. But the bus driver of a school bus has got to be better trained than that, and should be far more cautious than an average man whose idiotically texting and driving.
Well history & statistics proves otherwise. There is no stopping people from using their mobile phones while driving. May be automated level crossing is the solution to prevent such incidents.
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Old 24th July 2014, 19:03   #15847
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Default re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
This accident of bus getting hit by train and kids dying is a blunder on part of bus driver. Unmanned station means ( or rather demands ) more attention.

Feeling sad for those innocent lives which are lost due to a mistake on somebody's part. News channel were blaming Railways which I believe is not to be blamed.
Though it is a grave error on the part of the bus driver, railways is also responsible to an extent. It is the responsibility of railways to setup a manned or automated crossing at all places where the rails cut across roads.
In every railway budget, we hear budget being allocated to setup manned railway crossing but it is never done.

Really sad to see such precious lives taken due to negligence of few.
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Old 24th July 2014, 19:14   #15848
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Originally Posted by msdivy View Post
No wants an accident, no body wants to die, including the replacement driver manning the bus.
While I agree with you on this point, what I meant to say was why proceed at all when you see an approaching train (no matter if it 'appears' to be slow'). Just stop till it passes or it stops (which is a remote possibility). You are driving a bus load of people for god's sake.

But in this case, if the driver was talking on the mobile and just drove on not bothering to see whether a train was approaching or not, then this point may not be applicable for this accident. Maybe he was so immersed in the phone conversation that he was unaware of the situation.

Automated gates at level crossing may be the only answer but how much more time (and how many more innocent lives) will be spent before the work is expedited, that is between God and Government.

Last edited by luvDriving : 24th July 2014 at 19:18. Reason: added opinion on automated gates
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Old 24th July 2014, 19:25   #15849
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Originally Posted by luvDriving View Post
You are driving a bus load of people for god's sake.
People don't realize their responsibility. According to reports,
- he was replacement driver
- he took unmanned crossing since distance was short, though manned crossing was available at a distance
- he was on phone

My point was we have to build a safe system with such people.
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Old 24th July 2014, 19:28   #15850
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Originally Posted by msdivy View Post
There is no stopping people from using their mobile phones while driving. May be automated level crossing is the solution to prevent such incidents.
That treats only the symptom; not the cause (mobile usage while driving). So the driver will cross a major road while using his mobile, and could be rammed by a heavily loaded 18-wheeler.

My thinking is that all state governments are very guilty of leaving school buses unregulated all these years. Let us see some action - strict compliance requirements with the school's recognition at stake and the principal being criminally liable for accidents will change their attitude to transportation. Maharashtra had led the way here, after all the cylinder explosion cases from a few years back.

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It is the responsibility of railways to setup a manned or automated crossing at all places where the rails cut across roads.
In every railway budget, we hear budget being allocated to setup manned railway crossing but it is never done.
That is not true. The railways has the responsibility of setting up manned crossings only at crossings where a certain minimum traffic volume is present. And the railway board has a stated objective of phasing these out. "It is never done" is too strong a statement; they keep closing the unmanned ones or upgrading them to manned status.

This might be pertinent: http://www.intlrailsafety.com/London...-LX-safety.pdf
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Old 24th July 2014, 19:35   #15851
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Default re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by amitoj View Post
Also, if the train is coasting, it won't make any sound either. That makes it even more difficult to judge it's speed.
True, but that holds good only for Diesel loco's.



There a signboards for loco pilots kept at a specific distance before the crossing for both un-manned and manned LC's asking them to start honking continuously till they cross the LC.
Even if they don't do that, they always do when they see obstruction on the track.
It is the job of the assistant loco pilot to honk and the loco pilot will join him in blaring all the horns in certain situations (4 trumpets all together) which is extremely loud, and all this happens at least 200 meters before the crossing and if it is a curve before the LC, they honk through out.

In this case, the bus driver's , 'I am first and I will rule on the road', attitude did not work or he was plain ignorant.
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Old 24th July 2014, 20:30   #15852
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Default re: Pics: Accidents in India

Quote:
Originally Posted by msdivy View Post
People don't realize their responsibility. According to reports,
- he was replacement driver
- he took unmanned crossing since distance was short, though manned crossing was available at a distance
- he was on phone

My point was we have to build a safe system with such people.
Or is it that he knew the shortcut and deliberately took the unmanned crossing to "cut" through the traffic and avoid the queue that would have been built up?

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True, but that holds good only for Diesel loco's.



There a signboards for loco pilots kept at a specific distance before the crossing for both un-manned and manned LC's asking them to start honking continuously till they cross the LC.
Even if they don't do that, they always do when they see obstruction on the track.
It is the job of the assistant loco pilot to honk and the loco pilot will join him in blaring all the horns in certain situations (4 trumpets all together) which is extremely loud, and all this happens at least 200 meters before the crossing and if it is a curve before the LC, they honk through out.

In this case, the bus driver's , 'I am first and I will rule on the road', attitude did not work or he was plain ignorant.
Yes, I agree. Its not like a silent animal hit the bus - a train is visible far out, is audible far out - the driver was an idiot, replacement status not withstanding. It basically shows that the school employed an idiot. Common sense should have held him back - even if he was driving for the first time on that road in his life, as most of us would have done in our own cars. You don't need the regular driver for that!
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Old 24th July 2014, 22:19   #15853
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Default re: Pics: Accidents in India

Quote:
Originally Posted by msdivy View Post
Have read somewhere that it is difficult to judge the speed of the train at a level crossing. The view is only from front, the train seems like be approaching. Since there is no side view, it is difficult to judge speed.
The answer is simple: you see a train you simply don't go.

Probably many train-track-crossing accidents occur not because people misjudge, but because they don't even look. And they don't look because they don't even think.

And driving while on the phone?
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Old 25th July 2014, 09:21   #15854
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Or is it that he knew the shortcut and deliberately took the unmanned crossing to "cut" through the traffic and avoid the queue that would have been built up?
Yes most likely. Drivers in India (in general) drive like crazy and later laze around in the 2 minutes they saved.
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Old 25th July 2014, 09:37   #15855
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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
The answer is simple: you see a train you simply don't go.
The problem in India is, many people prefer to take (risky) chance and try to sneak in (happens in the red lights all the time). Even if a particular driver tries to stop in time, there will be many other vehicles behind who would continuously honk and put pressure. Wonder if these type of people really value every second!
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