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Old 15th November 2014, 01:47   #16636
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Originally Posted by anjan_c2007 View Post
I beg to totally disagree. Crumple zones and the fragile bodyshells of the cheap, small matchboxes are miaming and killing more and more drivers and passengers.
Really? How does it feel to have a steering column rammed into your chest?
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Old 15th November 2014, 05:05   #16637
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Default re: Pics: Accidents in India

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I beg to totally disagree. Crumple zones and the fragile bodyshells of the cheap, small matchboxes are miaming and killing more and more drivers and passengers.
Where do you get these facts or proclaimed facts.

Crumple zones are there for a reason. Irrespective of what you claim they reduce and not increase chances of maiming of killing.

Check this kids video. This is the easiest explanation for the crumple zone i have ever seen.



And a more fun video with lots of science


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Old 15th November 2014, 09:41   #16638
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Originally Posted by anjan_c2007 View Post
I beg to totally disagree. Crumple zones and the fragile bodyshells of the cheap, small matchboxes are maiming and killing more and more drivers and passengers.
You, my friend, just took on the basic laws of physics.

I think you're still a decade or two behind the world, where ambassadors and premier padminis were ruling the streets, where going above 60kmph was a rarity, where traffic was a fraction of what it is now, where there was nothing called as a pile up, seatbelts never existed. That was the time when ambassador owners had a happy grin on their face when they felt they were in a tank compared to the 800s and Omnis that existed then. This was only because at that times, accidents took place at lesser speeds, where sometimes an 800 would be totalled and the ambassador wouldn't have suffered a scratch.

I don't think situations are the same now. I would rather prefer crashing head on in a Top end hatchback(barring the swift ) than be in a tank of the yesteryears, where even basic safety features aren't present. A simple example is what Thad gave, like a collapsible steering. Technology progressed for a cause.

Last edited by audioholic : 15th November 2014 at 09:43.
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Old 15th November 2014, 11:57   #16639
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Crumple zones and the fragile bodyshells
I think that anjan_c2007 is just confusing the two: the first is meant to keep us alive, the second is likely to kill us. The mistake is in mentioning them together. They are very much not together.
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A simple example is what Thad gave, like a collapsible steering.
Actually, I'd forgotten about that, but, with or without the collapsible column, the front crumple zone is a major park of keeping that steel rod/tube out of our bodies. There is some dangerous steel inside the looks-soft-and-friendly steering wheel too.

Last edited by Thad E Ginathom : 15th November 2014 at 12:01.
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Old 15th November 2014, 17:55   #16640
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Default re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
I think that anjan_c2007 is just confusing the two: the first is meant to keep us alive, the second is likely to kill us. The mistake is in mentioning them together. They are very much not together.

Actually, I'd forgotten about that, but, with or without the collapsible column, the front crumple zone is a major park of keeping that steel rod/tube out of our bodies. There is some dangerous steel inside the looks-soft-and-friendly steering wheel too.
Completely agree. In 2006, a friend died in his early 2000s (or late 90s) vintage zen because the steering wheel punctured the heart. Or so the family said. The car otherwise did not look totalled. He looked otherwise as if he was peacefully asleep.

Last edited by phamilyman : 15th November 2014 at 18:00.
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Old 15th November 2014, 19:49   #16641
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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
Really? How does it feel to have a steering column rammed into your chest?
I have driven more than 300,000 kms in these older cars and jeeps since 1978 (still own one), but was fortunate to never till this day have the steering column reach up to my chest?The older rigid, non collapsible, rack and pinion steering is a basic design flaw in the older cars. HM and Premier could have incorporated changes with the moving times to introduce collapsible steerings and many other features suo moto, without wating for legislations to impact them. I do not support their stodgy attitude.

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You, my friend, just took on the basic laws of physics.

I think you're still a decade or two behind the world, where ambassadors and premier padminis were ruling the streets, where going above 60kmph was a rarity, where traffic was a fraction of what it is now, where there was nothing called as a pile up, seatbelts never existed. That was the time when ambassador owners had a happy grin on their face when they felt they were in a tank compared to the 800s and Omnis that existed then. This was only because at that times, accidents took place at lesser speeds, where sometimes an 800 would be totalled and the ambassador wouldn't have suffered a scratch.

I don't think situations are the same now. I would rather prefer crashing head on in a Top end hatchback(barring the swift ) than be in a tank of the yesteryears, where even basic safety features aren't present. A simple example is what Thad gave, like a collapsible steering. Technology progressed for a cause.
The older rigid rack and pinion steering is a basic design flaw in the older cars. HM and Premier could have incorporated changes to introduce collapsible steerings. I do not support their stodgy attitude at all that took our industry into the medieval ages, but am here to say that solid body shells are much safer than the newer, fragile and ductile shells (especially in the smaller cars that get impacted at high speeds) that already are maiming and killing by the thousands. For lower speeds of upto 30-40 kmph these shells with impact zones in the smaller cars are quite OK and as audioholic says, these obey the basic laws of physics. The larger cars ( D segment and above)with the unitary monococque bodies and with a solid build quality and four to five star ratings in the NCAP crash tests would be more preferable to own than the older chassis on body cars. But as far as the metal and plastic crap from many manufacturers being made in hundreds of thousands in the B and C segments (am not at all talking of the A segment that is just a bit more safer than a two wheeler) go, I would any day prefer a car with the solid, older body shell.

What about the Nissan Go and the Maruti Swift/ Dzire with celebrated crumple zones, that have scored ZERO in the latest NCAP test ratings ?

audioholic, I am not a decade or two but more than seven decades behind you and the "world" as far as my beliefs go, as the first car with a monococque shell was the Citreon Traction Avant (1934 - 1957) with the welded steel unitized body.

Last edited by anjan_c2007 : 15th November 2014 at 19:57.
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Old 15th November 2014, 20:54   #16642
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Default re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by anjan_c2007 View Post

What about the Nissan Go and the Maruti Swift/ Dzire with celebrated crumple zones, that have scored ZERO in the latest NCAP test ratings ?

l.
As I clearly mentioned, I excluded the swift from my choice of a safe hatchback. Even a Polo or any other car with solid build will have its share of crumple zones and thin metal in places where it should be. That's what I would prefer and not either an all strong body nor something like the swift.
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Old 15th November 2014, 21:01   #16643
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Default re: Pics: Accidents in India

All this brouhaha over crumple zones reminded me that the M800 was the first to introduce this concept in India, coupled with a collapsible steering. It is a different thing that most of us old-timers thought that it was a death trap, compared to the rigid bodies of the Amby and Premier Padminis around in the early 80s.

But as rightly said by Thad and others, technology has moved in favor of crumple zones coupled with a rigid passenger compartment. Only in 3rd world countries, manufacturers have sacrificed the rigid passenger compartment part, ostensibly to satiate the F.E. conscious crowd.
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Old 15th November 2014, 22:59   #16644
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I do not want to seem heartless with the following question, but it is a very basic problem.
I assume that most of us own hatchbacks or sedans. We have spent 12 months of our earnings to buy the car. The interiors are made of fabric. We spend atleast 2 hours per week cleaning and polishing our car.
Now to my question.
While driving on the highway, you see an accident scene with an injured person on the road/ roadside. Do you immediately lift the victim and put him on the back seat and take him to the nearest hospital? He is bleeding profusely from open wounds. He has a head injury and may vomit anytime. He has no bowel or bladder control. There is road dirt and grease all over him. He may die in your backseat.
What do you do in such a situation?
Again, I'm sorry if it hurts anyone's sentiments, and I am not heartless.
Mods please delete if this post is offensive.
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Old 15th November 2014, 23:47   #16645
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Originally Posted by wildsdi5530 View Post
What do you do in such a situation?
Again, I'm sorry if it hurts anyone's sentiments, and I am not heartless.
Mods please delete if this post is offensive.
There is nothing to hurt the sensibilities. Yes we take care of our cars with obsession but absolutely nothing comes in the way of helping someone in that situation - been there done that. Why would you ask this? Perhaps the only reason as to someone not helping would be if it is lonely and one feels its a setup.
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Old 15th November 2014, 23:59   #16646
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Originally Posted by IronH4WK View Post
now with more and more heavy vehicles opting to take the BETL instead of the road below, there are at least couple of breakdowns everyday. on wednesday on my drive to office i saw three breakdowns in a span of 8km! these were just cars, but still choked the BETL for some time. imagine if a heavy one breaks down.
The problem with BETL in case of an accident is vehicles piles up one behind the other rapidly thereby choking the other lane. IMO heavy vehicles should not be allowed to use the elevated highway.
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Old 17th November 2014, 12:13   #16647
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Default re: Pics: Accidents in India

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildsdi5530 View Post
I do not want to seem heartless with the following question, but it is a very basic problem.
I assume that most of us own hatchbacks or sedans. We have spent 12 months of our earnings to buy the car. The interiors are made of fabric. We spend atleast 2 hours per week cleaning and polishing our car.
Now to my question.
While driving on the highway, you see an accident scene with an injured person on the road/ roadside. Do you immediately lift the victim and put him on the back seat and take him to the nearest hospital? He is bleeding profusely from open wounds. He has a head injury and may vomit anytime. He has no bowel or bladder control. There is road dirt and grease all over him. He may die in your backseat.
What do you do in such a situation?
Again, I'm sorry if it hurts anyone's sentiments, and I am not heartless.
Mods please delete if this post is offensive.
As you rightly said, its exactly a matter of heart..but from a slightly different perspective..ONLY the heartless ignore to help someone in a life threatening emergency..no amount of money and vanity can substitute for the golden hour - as they call it.
Even these 'heartless' people who invest in and polish their rides with obsession will never subscribe to a situation where their loved one bleeds to death at cost of someone else's seats being spoilt , a holiday interrupted, a meeting cancelled and similar reasons.
Rest my case here..
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Old 17th November 2014, 14:37   #16648
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He may die in your backseat.
I will try and not let him die. Seats be damned. They can be washed. Heck, even bought. A life?
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Old 17th November 2014, 17:41   #16649
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Default re: Pics: Accidents in India

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildsdi5530 View Post
I do not want to seem heartless with the following question, but it is a very basic problem.
I assume that most of us own hatchbacks or sedans. We have spent 12 months of our earnings to buy the car. The interiors are made of fabric. We spend atleast 2 hours per week cleaning and polishing our car.
Now to my question.
While driving on the highway, you see an accident scene with an injured person on the road/ roadside. Do you immediately lift the victim and put him on the back seat and take him to the nearest hospital? He is bleeding profusely from open wounds. He has a head injury and may vomit anytime. He has no bowel or bladder control. There is road dirt and grease all over him. He may die in your backseat.
What do you do in such a situation?
Again, I'm sorry if it hurts anyone's sentiments, and I am not heartless.
Mods please delete if this post is offensive.
It is a very pertinent question.

But the answer lies in the heart and not in the mind.
You have a heart wildsdi5530 and you will not fuse a life.

I have just seen a colleague die in accident. The case is similar. 2 wheeler hit.

I have the pic just after the accident. It is not a good sight.
Could he have been saved? Probably no as it was on the spot.

Had it been another case, from Humanitarian point, the effort is all that counts.

People may have different views that may purely be on the aesthetic point of view. But then a life is irreplaceable.

And it certainly pays from the moral and spiritual point of view.

Interiors be damned. They can be cleaned. There is no cleansing of the soul!!
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Old 17th November 2014, 17:45   #16650
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He is bleeding profusely from open wounds. He has a head injury and may vomit anytime. He has no bowel or bladder control. There is road dirt and grease all over him.
Right. Now imagine YOU are that injured person who needs a lift to the nearest hospital. Bleeding and vomiting, with no control over your bowels or bladder. Someone else comes along in a brand new hatchback, on which he/she has spent about 12 months of pay. What would you like him/her to do? Worry about his car decor?
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