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Old 6th October 2015, 14:47   #18841
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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
I ride bike and i know it is plain dangerous to take on traffic from left. Higher the speed higher the risk, it is better to tail than to peek in on the left. Blind spots will hamper ORVM use in such scenarios, just not worth it!
Not exactly, unless the Swift guy learns from this episode and starts using his rear view mirrors properly. If not, when a motorist overtakes him from the right, he will decide to take a sudden right and still push him down!

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Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
I blame this one on the Swift.
This kind of 'missing the dedicated left turn' that branches out well before the actual intersection has happened to me a few times. What I have always done is to come to a complete stop in whatever lane I am in, have my left indicators flashing and keep looking into the left ORVM to see when I can safely make the left turn at the intersection.
Never do that! I guess you did not see the video highlighted by GTO, where we could see a Scorpio being crushed by a bus for slowly and gradually coming to a halt on the road.


Sigh, I don't know what needs to be done now. We can't overtake from the left / right or even come to a stop safely... No more options left!
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Old 6th October 2015, 14:57   #18842
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Originally Posted by aravind.anand View Post
...
Never do that! ...
You seem to think that some hard braking is involved in this manoeuvre! In the vicinity of intersections I am never never at any speed that you might need to worry about, and neither am I ever in the 'wrong' lane when I know I'd be taking a left somewhere soon. And if, even then, the car/bus behind me rear-ends me, hmm, I wouldn't know what to say!
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Old 6th October 2015, 15:14   #18843
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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Who do you think is at fault here - the scooterist or the driver of the Swift?
Both the idiots are at fault !

The 2-wheeler rider for riding on the LHS and not slowing down even when the car was having the LHS indicator on. For those who might argue that the car driver switched on the indicators very late , the scooter rider could have done better if he had assumed there are other idiots also like him on the road .

The car driver probably realized the correct LHS lane too late and that's the reason he/she switched on the indicator late and swerved without checking the mirrors . Like most morons on our roads , this driver also simply turned on the indicators and turned without being bothered about others on the road . Just like you have idiots who switch on hazard warning lights and stop in the middle of the road
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Old 6th October 2015, 16:05   #18844
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Originally Posted by VW2010 View Post

Better is to have a speed vs time saved map on all cars. Once you enter the destination it should litrally throw up a message saying the maximum time you can save overspeeding is x minutes. With a sarcastic question of , do you really want to die for this 3 minutes saving?
Good suggestion: I would also add the BP fluctuations due to high speeds, the number of near misses that could have been avoided and amount of time/peace of mind that would have been lost if there was atleast one near-miss conversion to a hit. The engine shouldn't turn off until the information is read out completely.

It should be like the gory cancer-due-to-smoking ads before the movie begins these days.
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Old 6th October 2015, 16:12   #18845
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Originally Posted by heavy_foot View Post
1) The place where the Daytona crashed is notorious for crashes. Many seasoned and well known riders have crashed at the exact same spot, Busa, Fireblade and Daytona in the last few weeks and many crash every season. This is the location ( 19 49 13.01 N 72 56 31.40 E ) and people who have ridden on this road say its due to bad engineering. The daytona guy although was wearing full gear had a fall from the bridge from quite a height which seems to be cause of his demise.
If this is the very spot that I noticed on my recent trip to Vapi(it has a sharp right hander immediately at the end of the flyover if one is travelling toward Mumbai), then there should be no surprise for its notoriety.

I was driving well over 90 on the stretch and would've exceeded it on the descent of the flyover had it not been for my brother-in-law who asked me to slow it down. Initially puzzled, I quickly realized his concern. It reminded me of the Dehu road exit of the Mum-Pune Expressway which has a similar abrupt right hander at its end.

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Originally Posted by VW2010 View Post
I wouldnt blame the engineer here of the road. Its not a race track in the first place and the so called seasoned riders should no better to stick to the ROAD speed limit. The speed limit in this road would absolutely prevent fatality even if the engineering is bad.A seasoned rider ensures he knows the road before he tries anything that is beyond the limit of the road.

More than Bad engineering its simply arrogance to race a bike in common road and not sticking to speed limits.I agree if the road caved in and the daytona crashed because of that and thats bad engineering. Agreed to points that including having specific warning signs, boards and enough preventive measures. As riders taking this route frequenty, they can get together to set up these boards and signs if they really want to help each other out.
While I agree that this is no race track where even seasoned riders/drivers shouldn't be testing their potential, it is no ordinary town road either. Its a national highway for crying out loud and its meant to reduce times for interstate/intercity travel.

This particular spot is dangerous and unnerving even at the prescribed speed limit. And there should be proper signage for gradient changes, turns, intersections, junctions, interchanges, turns, bridges, etc. There are no warnings or signboards whatsoever before the flyover; there are some signs placed after the flyover but these come into view only after one has reached the top of the flyover. The descent is also short, rapid and the elevation changes so suddenly that it unsettles the car and the uninitiated driver is bound to panic-brake. So yes, it is indeed a poorly engineered section!

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Originally Posted by Gotham_City View Post
Now, we have the crash video of Ducati Hyperstrada accident near Lavasa (Pune). The big bike slipped on a cement strip on which the rider landed after crossing a speed-breaker. Thankfully, the rider survived with just a few injuries.

The crash video:



And the result:
Woah. That was a nasty tankslapper. I'm not the one to analyze this accident but I have much reason to believe that he could've avoided it:

1) By reining in his speed especially on a village road.
2) By landing on his rear tire instead of the front which had every factor contributing against it to lose traction.

Last edited by Turbo_Torq : 6th October 2015 at 16:14.
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Old 6th October 2015, 16:15   #18846
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Default re: Pics: Accidents in India

Good grief, so much blame for the Swift driver in Swift v Scooter.

Most of us have, indeed, learned to look for a two-wheeler doing the illegal, dangerous and stupid overtake, on either side, before and during a turn, but that doesn't make the two-wheeler right, legal, sensible or entitled to do their manoeuvre. They are not.

Generally, in our mixed-up, discipline-free driving, overtaking on the left is a fact of life, but even that is wrong. My feeling is that, if we do it (don't we all? Is there even any choice when all the other vehicles on a two-lane road are in the right-hand lane?) then whatever happens is our fault.

This applies to vehicles with any number of wheels. Sadly, I believe that bikers have actually been taught to overtake on left. Somehow they feel it is safer. It is not. Let us spread the education on that one!

<afterthought>

There is another piece of driving common sense (if not law) ignored by the scooter here: never overtake at a junction. Just don't. Again, I don't feel many drivers, regardless of wheel number, are aware of that one.

Last edited by Thad E Ginathom : 6th October 2015 at 16:44.
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Old 6th October 2015, 16:48   #18847
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Well, armchair commentary is not my game. I believe in rather throwing questions on your conscience, which will bring out some answers.

So here are my questions to all those who blamed the two wheelers (partially or fully)...

Would you have appreciated if the two wheeler was riding bang in the middle of the car ahead of him, taking full width and blocking the car behind him ?

Wouldn't everyone would have screamed as to why a two wheeler is riding in the middle of the road ?

Wasn't he a good rider minding his own business in the leftmost slow lane ?
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Old 6th October 2015, 17:15   #18848
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Default re: Pics: Accidents in India

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soumyajit9 View Post
Well, armchair commentary is not my game. I believe in rather throwing questions on your conscience, which will bring out some answers.

So here are my questions to all those who blamed the two wheelers (partially or fully)...

Would you have appreciated if the two wheeler was riding bang in the middle of the car ahead of him, taking full width and blocking the car behind him ?

Wouldn't everyone would have screamed as to why a two wheeler is riding in the middle of the road ?

Wasn't he a good rider minding his own business in the leftmost slow lane ?
Agree with you. IMHO, His only mistake was to try overtaking from left, when the left blinker of the car was ON. Isn't that worth the share of the blame that he is getting?
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Old 6th October 2015, 18:27   #18849
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Originally Posted by FORTified View Post
Agree with you. IMHO, His only mistake was to try overtaking from left, when the left blinker of the car was ON. Isn't that worth the share of the blame that he is getting?
Agree, he didn't notice the blinker, but who would expect that all of a sudden from a car which was going straight in the middle lane and all of a sudden decided to turn left !
Practically anyone would have been caught by surprise, even a bigger vehicle.
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Old 6th October 2015, 18:52   #18850
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Default re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by Horizon81 View Post
Both.
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Originally Posted by PatchyBoy View Post
Both.
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Originally Posted by IshaanIan View Post
Definitely the driver of the Swift.
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Originally Posted by Leoshashi View Post
It is the responsibility of Two-wheeler rider...
Quote:
Originally Posted by IshaanIan View Post
... this is India. Where people fit into every gap they can find, and idiots like that in the Swift, have no qualms in remaining oblivious to their surroundings.
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Originally Posted by VW2010 View Post
Obviously in any sane world its the scooter who decides to ignore the blinkers. But in India i would say partially the swift for even giving that space in the first place.
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Originally Posted by SLK View Post
If I can see this clearly (BTW I do cross this place very regularly), I think the swift already missed the dedicated left cut...
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Originally Posted by carrerastrax View Post
Swift and the government.
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Originally Posted by heavenlybull View Post
The swift moron...
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Originally Posted by blackwasp View Post
...the scooterist is too close and has not kept a sufficient gap. Totally his fault.
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Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
Looks like the Swift's fault and not the bikers.
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Originally Posted by FORTified View Post
I guess both are to be blamed...
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Originally Posted by mayankk View Post
Actually, there's no such non-allowed status at that turn.
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Originally Posted by poised2drive View Post
I'd say it's the mix of swift's missing the turn and the biker's hurry...
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Originally Posted by fusionbang View Post
IMO the biker is at fault here...
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Originally Posted by humyum View Post
The Swift guy does not seem to have seen through his left rear view mirror...
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Originally Posted by saadat1992 View Post
...in general the bikers are always notorious for this.
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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Yes i agree it is scooters fault...
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Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
I blame this one on the Swift.
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Originally Posted by aravind.anand View Post
Not exactly, unless the Swift guy learns from this episode...
Quote:
Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
...I wouldn't know what to say!
Quote:
Originally Posted by speedsatya View Post
Both the idiots are at fault !
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
Good grief, so much blame for the Swift driver in Swift v Scooter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soumyajit9 View Post
Well, armchair commentary is not my game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FORTified View Post
IMHO, His only mistake was to try overtaking from left...
It was great fun to go through the multiple differing opinions. As a driving trainer, here's mine:

A slip road has been provided at the junction for vehicles turning left. Where such a slip road is provided, it is mandatory for a left-turning vehicle to use it, and not turn from the main carriageway. In performing the turn as shown in the video, the driver of the Swift is breaking a law and a basic principle of driving.

The scooterist may be considered to be at fault here for trying to overtake from the left and / or not being alert enough to detect the car's turn signal, but he has not broken any law - the motorist has.

In general, on most city streets across the world, bikers try not to occupy a whole lane, and ride along or close to lane markers. This makes for slightly more efficient use of available road space, especially when traffic is heavy. Also, on city streets with turns and junctions, the principle of overtaking only from the right does not apply - whichever lane is moving faster, vehicles in that lane overtake the other lane(s), whether it be to their right or left, as long as they are in the correct lane.

Of course, the principles of driving don't apply in India, rules don't really matter, and blame games go on. In a traffic-conscious city, the Swift driver will be prosecuted. Here, there's no one to decide who is right and who is wrong, and even if there was a cop standing at the junction, he would have no idea of the rules and laws.
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Old 6th October 2015, 18:55   #18851
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Default re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by aravind.anand View Post
Not exactly, unless the Swift guy learns from this episode and starts using his rear view mirrors properly. If not, when a motorist overtakes him from the right, he will decide to take a sudden right and still push him down!
Thad has explained well, and i agree with his rationale.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
Good grief, so much blame for the Swift driver in Swift v Scooter.

Most of us have, indeed, learned to look for a two-wheeler doing the illegal, dangerous and stupid overtake, on either side, before and during a turn, but that doesn't make the two-wheeler right, legal, sensible or entitled to do their manoeuvre. They are not.

Generally, in our mixed-up, discipline-free driving, overtaking on the left is a fact of life, but even that is wrong. My feeling is that, if we do it (don't we all? Is there even any choice when all the other vehicles on a two-lane road are in the right-hand lane?) then whatever happens is our fault.

This applies to vehicles with any number of wheels. Sadly, I believe that bikers have actually been taught to overtake on left. Somehow they feel it is safer. It is not. Let us spread the education on that one!

<afterthought>

There is another piece of driving common sense (if not law) ignored by the scooter here: never overtake at a junction. Just don't. Again, I don't feel many drivers, regardless of wheel number, are aware of that one.
The fundamentals we follow and believe in India is WRONG! I think we all need to go to a proper driving lesson / training before something can be improved on our roads.

People who have traveled to a developed nation or driven can identify with what Thad is saying.

Why do you think people from such countries are scared out of wits at the simple thought of driving in countries like India? We break all the basic rules and etiquette right from walking to driving and then sit and justify / analyse it.

Last edited by Jaggu : 6th October 2015 at 18:57.
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Old 6th October 2015, 19:09   #18852
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Received on facebook team fiat moto club.
Apparently the Scorpio ran into this Nissan showroom at a place called Kottrakara in Koll district.

Pics: Accidents in India-imageuploadedbyteambhp1444138476.170766.jpg
Pics: Accidents in India-imageuploadedbyteambhp1444138509.303841.jpg
Pics: Accidents in India-imageuploadedbyteambhp1444138551.159862.jpg
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Old 6th October 2015, 21:40   #18853
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Originally Posted by Arjun Reddy View Post
Received on facebook team fiat moto club.
Apparently the Scorpio ran into this Nissan showroom at a place called Kottrakara in Koll district. ..
It pains to see these new cars destroyed, and hope its only the cars thats damaged, and hope no human injuries.

Looks like the bullbar has done its job, and the crumble zone is intact, instead can see the wind shield and the top taking the hit. The bonnet looks like it was never involved in an accident
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Old 6th October 2015, 22:08   #18854
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Default re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by raghu.t.k View Post
Looks like the bullbar has done its job, and the crumble zone is intact, instead can see the wind shield and the top taking the hit. The bonnet looks like it was never involved in an accident
I share your sentiment and frustration. And worst of all, its quite likely that the Scorpio owner will proudly state to anyone within earshot how his cleverness in fitting a bullbar saved his engine, while it utterly destroyed those of the cars, further perpetuating the "value" of bullbars.
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Old 6th October 2015, 22:34   #18855
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Originally Posted by Soumyajit9 View Post
Agree, he didn't notice the blinker, but who would expect that all of a sudden from a car which was going straight in the middle lane and all of a sudden decided to turn left !
Practically anyone would have been caught by surprise, even a bigger vehicle.
That is why you are (supposed to be) taught to maintain a safe distance from the vehicle in front of you and not go sniffing his bumper. What if a dog darted across the road and the Swift's driver applied sudden brake? Would you still blame him for the mishap?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
The scooterist may be considered to be at fault here for trying to overtake from the left and / or not being alert enough to detect the car's turn signal, but he has not broken any law - the motorist has.
Overtaking from the left IS breaking the law.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
In general, on most city streets across the world, bikers try not to occupy a whole lane, and ride along or close to lane markers. This makes for slightly more efficient use of available road space, especially when traffic is heavy.
I agree. At traffic signals and in bumper to bumper traffic or speeds < 10 kmh, I don't mind two wheelers efficiently filling up the gaps/ moving ahead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Also, on city streets with turns and junctions, the principle of overtaking only from the right does not apply - whichever lane is moving faster, vehicles in that lane overtake the other lane(s), whether it be to their right or left, as long as they are in the correct lane.
Exactly. The only problem(s) here being the moron on the scooter was :-
(a) Trying to overtake from the left while traffic was moving at not less than 30 kph.
(b) Overtaking a vehicle in his OWN lane.

The Scooterist is the cause of this accident. The Swift driver missing the turn was only a contributing factor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Thad has explained well, and i agree with his rationale.
The fundamentals we follow and believe in India is WRONG! I think we all need to go to a proper driving lesson / training before something can be improved on our roads.

People who have traveled to a developed nation or driven can identify with what Thad is saying.

Why do you think people from such countries are scared out of wits at the simple thought of driving in countries like India? We break all the basic rules and etiquette right from walking to driving and then sit and justify / analyse it.
I'm happy to see at least the mod is talking sense here. Its not really our fault that we are like this. Traffic rules need to be imbibed in us from a very young age. In a nation used to breaking rules left,right and centre, this is but expected.

Last edited by longhorn : 6th October 2015 at 22:40.
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