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Old 21st November 2015, 16:08   #19201
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Until we know the intensity and point of impact during the accident, we cannot judge how the car actually fared. Not talking of this particular case, but a heap of metal which one would consider as a tin can may suddenly become a case of appreciation if we had seen the accident while it actually happened. And even in that case, it is just an approximation, not a judgment by any means. So, let us refrain from making uninformed statements since a lot of audience, even outside TBHP look upto us while making purchase decisions.

Plus, in this case, we do not know if the car was cut open to take out the occupants after the accident which would deter its shape further. As per the news, the car was carrying people more than its specified passenger capacity and certainly it would have had a bad impact on the overall result. Also, in such a case, it will be too ambitious to expect that everyone inside was belted. In fact, I am actually surprised that some of the passengers survived (?). I hope & wish them full recovery.

Regards,
Saket.

PS: I have seen quite a few stories on this forum where people did live to tell the tale after a crash in their Maruti.

Last edited by saket77 : 21st November 2015 at 16:27.
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Old 21st November 2015, 16:46   #19202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeevith View Post
How many such instances (of the ABS kicking in) is the ABS designed to last for?

ABS, as such is designed to last for the lifetime of the car.


I think periodic ABS sensor replacement is needed. One hardly comes across any instances of the same, admittedly.

ABS has come a long way indeed, since it was introduced in the Mercedes Benz W116 S-Class- in the 'Seventies.
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Old 21st November 2015, 23:33   #19203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeevith View Post
Still curious. Assuming in course of driving the ABS has kicked in say about 5 times (I only just realized that the metallic crank is the ABS kicking in. I too let go of the pedal on hearing it, but it was relatively low speeds of about 30 kmph), is the ABS is still in working condition?



How many such instances (of the ABS kicking in) is the ABS designed to last for?

You've got it wrong mate. The ABS system consists of an ABS module which distributes the braking force between all the wheels at various predetermined situation scenarios with the help of ABS sensors on all wheels and the ECU as the master controller. These components are not similar to the Airbag system which needs the Airbag module and/or other independent sensors to be reset every time the system triggers the airbags to inflate on impact, along with replacement of the airbags themselves of course.

In comparison, the ABS system is very much a part of the braking system and doesn't need much intrusion unless the sensors or module are damaged during an accident or maintenance/repair or any other such physical damage. If at all any maintenance may be needed, it's sure after very long intervals. Periodic checking of the system during general maintenance is a good idea though. So breathe easy.
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Old 21st November 2015, 23:50   #19204
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Few months ago, spotted this Mercedes S 500 parked near lower parel station west, just below the forthcoming monorail project. I was passing by and was not able to figure out how this mishap occurred. But I am sure occupants are safe.

As you can see front curtain Airbag got deployed in this case.
Pics: Accidents in India-1448129409991.jpgPics: Accidents in India-1448129464558.jpg
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Old 22nd November 2015, 11:33   #19205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiku007 View Post
Well, I don't remember reading someone come and post how their Maruti saved their life from a horrific crash. So the conclusion may very well be fair.
Its quite true Maruti's save lives. The reason is that they're so slow that the potential accident happens to other people after they reach. Or much before they arrive there.

Okay, I'll just escape now.

To be frank, after seeing all these crashes only a nice Unimog will do the job. Plus the new ones look beautiful. Take a look at this picture.
Attached Images
 

Last edited by hangover : 22nd November 2015 at 11:45.
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Old 22nd November 2015, 12:28   #19206
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Actually, calling such events as "accidents" is misleading. They are traffic collisions/incidents. Accident implies that the event occurred unintentionally. But previous posts, all suggests that they occurred due to not wearing seatbelts, high speed, driver fatigue, overloading trucks, etc.

Maybe proper awareness is needed to tell people that most of the events could have been easily prevented. I don't want to single out any particular incident, but I've observed that people who accept that it was their fault and correct themselves for the future are those who drive carefully and don't take unnecessary risks. Even simple things like stopping for a red light can prevent collisions.

I'm glad to say that Bhp-ians are leading the way for a safer roads out there. We as a community must raise our voice/stick to firmness regarding safety.
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Old 22nd November 2015, 13:22   #19207
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While it is true that the state of the Baleno isn't necessarily indicative of its safety, I'm glad that people are questioning it.

Want to stop the rumors and bad publicity, Maruti? Crash test the car and share the results. As a prospective customer in that price bracket, it is disappointing that I can't know if the Baleno is safe or not. I would honestly pick the crash tested Polo over the Baleno at the moment.
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Old 22nd November 2015, 13:37   #19208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Sad end. Brand new Baleno.

Attachment 1441687



Source & Full Article
Seeing that lot of people imagine the Baleno to be of inferior strength, A small perspective from my part:

Mass of Car = 1.5 Tons (Since it was packed with 6 passengers + luggage)
Mass of typical Potato truck (Overloaded by 100%) = 50 Tons
Typical Speed of car during such highway driving = 100 kmph
Typical Speed of Overloaded Truck = 50 kmph
Now, in case of a head-on collision, their Relative Speed = 150 kmph

Not factoring in many other variable factors, just a theoretical head-on collision in terms of impact energy, using Newton's Law of Energy (E = m*c^2), I'd like to show the disadvantage of the car against the truck.

Now, let's forget the real numbers, but just look at the ratio of impact energy (I'm leaving out all units of measure for each of reference.

According to Newton's Formula,

Truck's Impact Energy = 50 * 50 * 50 = 1,25,000 X (X referring to the ratio)
Car's Impact Energy = 1.5 * 100 * 100 = 15,000 X (again, X referring to the ratio)

Now, comparing the energy one-one : The Truck has more than 8 times the impact energy of the Car.

In India, trucks commonly use steel which has a tensile strength of 460N/mm^2. Cars on the other hand will use higher strength material ranging from 550 - 650 N/mm^2.

Assuming the Baleno uses 650 N/mm^2 steel, It has a material strength advantage of approx 1.4X higher than the truck. Even then, the Truck's actual impact energy is higher by 5.5 times than the car. The car still cannot survive due to the sheer impact energy it is put up against.

The conclusion is this: It doesn't matter how much stronger steel we use, ultimately, when two objects collide with different impact energies, the object with the higher impact energy wins. PERIOD.

Hence, it is not fair to assume that the Baleno is an inferior car in any way compared to the other mass manufactured cars sold in India, irrespective of their price tags.

Just my two cents, nothing more..

P.S: Before I am flamed down by anyone, I don't work for Maruti or any other car manufacturer for that matter.

Cheers & Safe Driving / Riding.
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Old 22nd November 2015, 13:44   #19209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vashisth View Post
How come airbags didn't deploy ? This is sx Verna and supposed to have 6 airbags. Being a Verna owner I am worried
This particular model was equipped with 2 frontal airbags. As there was no frontal collision, the airbags did not deploy.
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Old 22nd November 2015, 13:56   #19210
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Spotted this on a website today http://www.rushlane.com/maruti-suzuk...-12174220.html
I hate the tone of the reporting as though its Baleno's mistake without determining what was the cause. Looks like cheap journalism just to make it viral and tarnish a manufacturers image.

The reporter also took the privilege of tarnishing a couple of other manufacturers in the name of "awareness".

Pics from the news post:
Name:  MarutiBalenoAccident1.jpg
Views: 9400
Size:  76.6 KB
Name:  MarutiBalenoAccident2.jpg
Views: 7793
Size:  74.0 KB
Name:  MarutiBalenoAccident3.jpg
Views: 7768
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Pics: Accidents in India-marutibalenocrash.jpg

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinit.merchant View Post
What is that on the right rear of the car? I hope it is not what it appears to be. Very Scary.
OK wait. I am still trying to figure which the rear end.
Churns my stomach to think what speed can do. What safety belt, What airbag, What Maruti? None of this matters: Maruti or not.

Last edited by Gannu_1 : 22nd November 2015 at 14:08. Reason: Back to back posts merged. Please edit you existing post within the 30 minute window, to add contents to it.
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Old 22nd November 2015, 14:30   #19211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surya-TJet View Post

The conclusion is this: It doesn't matter how much stronger steel we use, ultimately, when two objects collide with different impact energies, the object with the higher impact energy wins. PERIOD.

Hence, it is not fair to assume that the Baleno is an inferior car in any way compared to the other mass manufactured cars sold in India, irrespective of their price
I am not a maths and physics expert, but the quoted text is 100% true.
Even when the cars are crash tested, the methodology involves crashing it against an identical weight block with a 60-40 offset at max 64 KMPH. SO, 3 things- identical weight, offset factor and speed are important variables here. Currently a technology does not exist where surpassing these factors can still offer a safe car. So, in any crash, a heavier vehicle will always have the advantage because it will push into the lighter vehicle due to its inertia. Also, it means that a 5-star safety rated 700 kg car is not as safe as a 5-star rated 1000 kg car because:

1. The 700 kg car is crashed against a 700 kg wt. during crash test while a 1000 kg car is tested against 1000 kg obstacle.

2. In practical crash scenario, the 1000 kg car will instill more damage to the 700 kg car because it will push into the lighter car because of it's higher inertia.

So, it is very difficult for a 1 ton car to survive a crash against 30-35 ton loaded truck. All factors and odds are against it.

Hope I was able to put my point across.

Regards,
Saket.

Last edited by saket77 : 22nd November 2015 at 14:32.
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Old 22nd November 2015, 14:31   #19212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackwasp View Post
Actually, calling such events as "accidents" is misleading. ...
It is an unfortunate quirk of the English language. I suppose it means to say that nobody actually did it on purpose, rather than that nobody is responsible. Somebody is always responsible. Even for our mistakes, we are responsible.
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Old 22nd November 2015, 14:51   #19213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surya-TJet View Post

----snip-------
I hope people do move on from though sheet metal and the purported survival capabilities.
One thing though, it's 1/2mv^2, Newton's. Emc is Einstein.
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Old 22nd November 2015, 17:36   #19214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saket77 View Post
Even when the cars are crash tested, the methodology involves crashing it against an identical weight block with a 60-40 offset at max 64 KMPH. SO, 3 things- identical weight, offset factor and speed are important variables here. Currently a technology does not exist where surpassing these factors can still offer a safe car.
There is no doubt that a heavier car would inflict more damage on the lighter car. But I think it is incorrect to say that outside these three parameters, cars cannot be safe. The safety rating we see are based on standard tests, but we do not know what other parameters manufacturers do their own safety tests with and what tolerances are built into the cars. Check out youtube to see some non-standard tests done by Volvo crash test center (although these videos exist for the purpose of advertisement).

Coming to Maruti cars, there is a perception that they are not built as well as the Euro competition. This might very well be a myth. However, in my observation, most of the accident pictures shared in this thread do nothing to debunk it.
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Old 22nd November 2015, 18:08   #19215
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Originally Posted by StarrySky View Post
Coming to Maruti cars, there is a perception that they are not built as well as the Euro competition. This might very well be a myth. However, in my observation, most of the accident pictures shared in this thread do nothing to debunk it.
It is a pity you base your argument on an irrelevant basis.

If you see the thread on Maruti safety issues, you will find that there is evidence to suggest that Maruti cars in India are not as safe as Maruti cars in Europe. It is a serious issue, and it may very well influence purchase decisions. It certainly does for me.

But you cannot, or at least it is not reasonable, take the results of an accident of which you do not even know the full details, and say that the car is not safe. It may very well be that, in that accident, no car would have been "safe."

If the safety of anything is the issue of this thread, it is the drivers, not the cars.
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