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Old 22nd December 2015, 09:31   #19456
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I've been reading posts going back a few pages, its time that science or more like, commonsense is brought back into the debate yet again. Greater speeds equals to greater risks, there is no and's, if's or but's about this. In India this is the greatest truth given that the riders and/or drivers have little road sense, there is jaywalking for the larger part and also very poorly lit streets with no proper median construction.

Highways in India as I understand have a speed limit of 80 kmph for LMV and about 65kmph for commercial load bearing vehicles. Call this law outdated but its the law nonetheless. Even if it were to be updated to say 100kmph as was proposed (from what I read) there would still be people violating this limit on a daily basis in outer ring-roads, highways and en-route to airports via the specially built 8 lane roads. Why do people want cars such as the Abarth Punto or GT Tsi or even MUV's with large engines like Innova, Scorpio etc? Surely not to cruise in 4th gear at 70?

I know I'm perhaps questioning the unquestionable in a forum for car enthusiasts, I also know that not everyone breaks the law no matter what their car is. I just want to repeat the point which everyone misses - high speed equals danger, not just from external factors but also one's own reflexes which may not keep up with the speed of the car. Even with ABS & 205 section tyres, a car can veer out of control if pushed moderately close to limits.. even with 6 airbags and a strong "vault" like structure a car can crumple into nothingness when it meets the right obstacle.. even the best driver can lose control no matter his experience on the same roads day in day out, because ultimately Murphy's law reigns supreme.

Contradiction is contradiction, period. Maybe one can consider our traffic laws as more of a safety outline erring on the side of caution (since enforcement is almost zero), if that is indeed the case I ask every BHPian to read up on the deadly effects of g-forces, possibilities of vehicle-tumbling & also look at the international car crash photos in this very forum to understand how a deadly mix of speed, carelessness & breaking of laws can result in even the best of cars getting junked on the best of roads. After that if contradicting is cool then so be it.
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Old 22nd December 2015, 11:31   #19457
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dark.knight View Post
Highways in India as I understand have a speed limit of 80 kmph for LMV and about 65kmph for commercial load bearing vehicles. Call this law outdated but its the law nonetheless. Even if it were to be updated to say 100kmph as was proposed (from what I read) there would still be people violating this limit on a daily basis in outer ring-roads, highways and en-route to airports via the specially built 8 lane roads. Why do people want cars such as the Abarth Punto or GT Tsi or even MUV's with large engines like Innova, Scorpio etc? Surely not to cruise in 4th gear at 70?
I second your thoughts.

I have always thought why vehicles are allowed at the manufacturer level to go at speeds higher than the legal speed limits.

Speeds limits are set keeping the people in mind; not the cars they drive. As archaic as the speed limits might seem, it seems just about right to me. There are far too many idiots on the road who believe they have the licence to thrill and kill.

High speeds are almost the single highest cause for most accidents. The mangled remains of the various cars in this very thread are testimony to that thought.

I wish someone develops an engine management system that will alter the speed limit on your car based on the traffic data around you sourced from Google Maps or so. Reason being, a speed of 40kmph in packed traffic can be dangerous as well. High speeds are relative to the circumstances that surround the vehicle.

For those in an emergency, perhaps have an emergency flip switch the can override the top speed settings. And those who flip this switch will have to pay Rs. 5,000 compulsorily and also explain to the cops why the switch was flipped. The cops can then have various measures in place to decide whether the Rs. 5,000 must be returned or not.

Last edited by ashwin.terminat : 22nd December 2015 at 11:49.
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Old 22nd December 2015, 12:07   #19458
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A different accident - Jet Airways bus rams into Air India aircraft in Kolkata

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An aircraft of the Air India subsidiary Alliance Air was damaged after a Jet Airways passenger coach rammed into the stationary aircraft at the NSCB International Airport in Kolkata early Tuesday.

Airport officials said the plane was parked at Bay no 32 in the airport and was preparing to leave for Silchar when the driver of the Jet Airways bus lost control of the vehicle and hit it near its left wing at around 5.25 am.

Air India officials said the plane suffered major damage and has been grounded. The airline has cancelled two flights to the North East.

Officials said there was not much fog in the morning and the air traffic was unaffected.
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Last edited by msdivy : 22nd December 2015 at 12:08.
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Old 22nd December 2015, 13:57   #19459
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashwin.terminat View Post

High speeds are almost the single highest cause for most accidents. The mangled remains of the various cars in this very thread are testimony to that thought.

I wish someone develops an engine management system that will alter the speed limit on your car based on the traffic data around you sourced from Google Maps or so. Reason being, a speed of 40kmph in packed traffic can be dangerous as well. High speeds are relative to the circumstances that surround the vehicle.

With respect to everyone here, I beg to differ on this ongoing SPEED BASHING going on everywhere and the general perception that all accidents, mostly big and ghastly ones are or were a result of this poor guy called speed. I think human error is a much bigger factor in each and every accident, among millions of other possible things.

The way I see it, firstly an accident is never caused by any single factor, may it be speed, carelessness, ego, fate, bad timing, wrong judgement, sleep deprived driver or millions of other factors. The fact is we may fail to see all of the other contributing factors, most of the times. Accidents are caused by a couple or many of these things happening which sequentially happen to occur at a given points of time which builds up the situation which then ultimately leads to the said accident or mis-hap. By the way a mishap is a happening which was not meant to be, a bad happening, and no single thing or person/s can be singularly held ultimately responsible for the mis-happening.

Secondly, accidents can and do happen at all speeds. Even at 0kph. Period. I have seen many people who have died at 0kph. The poor souls died so suddenly they might not even realized before dying as to why they died. So high speed is just a number. Most of the times. See the Jet Airways bus accidents some posts back. What speed do we think he might have been doing? These guys don't have the kind of roads to do insane speeds in these places. Also the Figo mishap earlier still was a human error more than speed caused, though speed had its role.

Thirdly, instead of capping the speed by various rules/regulations etc which is seen to be the only culprit, I think it is us humans who have to control ourselves. We are in control of speed. Not the other way round. That is the only logical remedy. Now how that can be done on a large scale is another debate.

Because, to me, blaming speed all the time for an accident is like jumping off a high bridge into a river and then blaming the height of the bridge for the result of it.

Just my two-and-a-half cents.

Last edited by pixantz : 22nd December 2015 at 14:00.
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Old 22nd December 2015, 14:15   #19460
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When I was learning to drive, my experienced driver told me two things:
- The challenge isn't driving fast, it is driving slow within the acceptable limits and following the rules. Anyone can press the accelerator and gun the car, but anticipating the movement of other users is significantly more vital a skill than having traffic light drags.
- At the same time, one can be slow and rash, or fast and safe. There are places to explore the limits of the cars - such as elevated toll roads that see no truckers, bikers, pedestrians, or animals; with sparse traffic and excellent straight line visibility.
Similarly, lane cutting, driving while on the phone are examples of how one can drive slow but rashly - while posing a greater threat to themselves and other road users.

In his 30+ years at my house, he did not meet with any accidents up until he retired a few years back.
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Old 22nd December 2015, 20:18   #19461
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pixantz View Post
The way I see it, firstly an accident is never caused by any single factor, may it be speed, carelessness, ego, fate, bad timing, wrong judgement, sleep deprived driver or millions of other factors.
My take is this: the one thing that helps anyone on the road is a well-honed hazard perception skill. Or in other words, the single factor that causes all accidents is that somebody or other (usually everyone involved in the accident) did not have adequately developed hazard perception skill. Developing this skill is a major exercise in self and situational awareness; and I personally am constantly on the lookout for opportunities to do so. The quicker you are able to perceive hazards and decide on mitigating action, the less likely you are to be in any accident - even ones caused by "somebody else's fault".

Once you start seeing hazards everywhere and consciously mitigating them, you'll end up automatically practising defensive driving.
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Old 22nd December 2015, 20:38   #19462
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Quote:
Originally Posted by binand View Post
My take is this: the one thing that helps anyone on the road is a well-honed hazard perception skill. Or in other words, the single factor that causes all accidents is that somebody or other (usually everyone involved in the accident) did not have adequately developed hazard perception skill. Developing this skill is a major exercise in self and situational awareness; and I personally am constantly on the lookout for opportunities to do so. The quicker you are able to perceive hazards and decide on mitigating action, the less likely you are to be in any accident - even ones caused by "somebody else's fault".



Once you start seeing hazards everywhere and consciously mitigating them, you'll end up automatically practising defensive driving.

You hit the dot mate. This is part of my personal etiquettes too. Maybe you can term it as carefulness too. Just driving through like a locomotive just doesn't cut it always, as many people tend to do.
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Old 23rd December 2015, 06:58   #19463
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Airbags don't deploy in this S Cross accident. The article says that the car is owned by one of our members. Any idea?

http://www.rushlane.com/maruti-s-cro...-12176470.html
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Old 23rd December 2015, 07:18   #19464
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Originally Posted by Arjun Reddy View Post
The article says that the car is owned by one of our members. Any idea?
The source link provided at the end of the article leads to this post:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offici...ml#post3861688 (Maruti S-Cross : Official Review)

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Old 24th December 2015, 12:15   #19465
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Is this new diesel Jazz? Where did this happen? At least no one was hurt !
The airbags didn't pop out?
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Old 24th December 2015, 21:20   #19466
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I don't know whether it has been shared before or not. i10 accident, careless driving, basically. watch @ 1:18. Was going @ 140 - 150 before accident.
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Old 24th December 2015, 21:25   #19467
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I don't know whether it has been shared before or not.
Shared in the Bad Drivers thread - Link (Bad Drivers - How do you spot 'em).
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Old 24th December 2015, 22:23   #19468
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Originally Posted by msdivy View Post
This article claims Jet may have to pay 100 crore to Air India. Funny when a google search says the cost of such an aircraft, brand new, is 68 crore (not counting all the fun with sale and leaseback etc that makes even new aircraft substantially cheaper, let alone the old enough to vote aircraft that Air India and especially its Alliance Air subsidiary tend to operate)

https://www.reddit.com/r/india/comme...r_bus_crashes/

Yes - the plane is at least a couple of years more than the voting age limit. Manufactured in 1995 and then leased third or fourth hand by Air India after two south american airlines and then air deccan deployed this aircraft.

http://www.airfleets.net/ficheapp/plane-atr-406.htm
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Old 24th December 2015, 22:33   #19469
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I think the Maruti Officials are right in this one. We've to stop being unreasonable.

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Originally Posted by Arjun Reddy View Post
Airbags don't deploy in this S Cross accident. The article says that the car is owned by one of our members. Any idea?

http://www.rushlane.com/maruti-s-cro...-12176470.html
This was discussed in detail in the S-Cross official review thread.
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Old 24th December 2015, 22:36   #19470
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Continuing your bridge example, we have seen that whenever the No. of suicides increase from some high bridges or other buildings, some precautionary measures are deployed to control the incidents without blaming the buildings or bridges. Similarly speed warnings are put on various roads.

I don't want to debate whether humans and their instincts can be controlled or not but from my personal observation I strongly believe that if speed is controlled 90%+ accidents can be avoided or if not accidents, 90%+ fatalities can be avoided. Period!

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With respect to everyone here, I beg to differ on this ongoing SPEED BASHING going on everywhere and the general perception that all accidents, mostly big and ghastly ones are or were a result of this poor guy called speed. I think human error is a much bigger factor in each and every accident, among millions of other possible things.
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