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Old 19th September 2016, 15:03   #21796
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Default Re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by Viv3k View Post
Why does a car like Celerio have the capabilities to break the 100kmph speed in the first place?
Possibly because 100 Kph, 62Mph, is actually a very modest speed on many of the world's roads. If a modern car is not capable of doing such speeds, under control, then it probably should not be sold anywhere in the world.

60MPH is, if I remember rightly, the speed limit, unless signage says otherwise, for single-carriageway roads in UK. But speed limits do not indicate that it is safe to drive at that speed; that is a lesson I learnt the hard way!
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Old 19th September 2016, 15:09   #21797
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Default Re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Possibly because 100 Kph, 62Mph, is actually a very modest speed on many of the world's roads. If a modern car is not capable of doing such speeds, under control, then it probably should not be sold anywhere in the world.

60MPH is, if I remember rightly, the speed limit, unless signage says otherwise, for single-carriageway roads in UK. But speed limits do not indicate that it is safe to drive at that speed; that is a lesson I learnt the hard way!

My international experience has solely been on autobahn in an Audi TT modified to the limits but when we consider the Indian scenario, it is a lot different and specific to this country.

I think any car, on any Indian road, traveling at more than 110kmph is inviting trouble (there could be some exceptions though). I have seen many WagonR's, Swift and other hatches overtaking me when I am doing 100kmph on NH. I am not sure whether I should appreciate the drivers confidence or laugh at their stupidity :(
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Old 19th September 2016, 15:23   #21798
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Default Re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by Viv3k View Post
I think any car, on any Indian road, traveling at more than 110kmph is inviting trouble (there could be some exceptions though). I have seen many WagonR's, Swift and other hatches overtaking me when I am doing 100kmph on NH. I am not sure whether I should appreciate the drivers confidence or laugh at their stupidity :(
In practice, I think you are probably right.

Don't appreciate their confidence: misplaced confidence is dangerous. And all too easy to have: all it needs is some ego.
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Old 19th September 2016, 16:16   #21799
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Why does a car like Celerio have the capabilities to break the 100kmph speed in the first place? I think we should have car speeds restricted to a limit right off the factory.
Actually, I had an idea regarding something similar.
What I had in mind was a GPS based system that would be linked with a speed controller. All we would need would be proper Maps with latest speed limits. This would help in enforcing speed limits. If such a system comes installed mandatory from the factory, people would be forced to drive within speed limits. No need to spend on speed cameras and people benefit by not having to worry about challans.
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Old 19th September 2016, 16:46   #21800
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Default Re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Actually, I had an idea regarding something similar.
What I had in mind was a GPS based system that would be linked with a speed controller. All we would need would be proper Maps with latest speed limits. This would help in enforcing speed limits. If such a system comes installed mandatory from the factory, people would be forced to drive within speed limits. No need to spend on speed cameras and people benefit by not having to worry about challans.
To add on to your idea, we don't need speed limits for each road (honestly, I don't even think the cops are aware of it). We can use the traffic data obtained from Google to analyse the flow of traffic and set a dynamic speed limit on the vehicle. However, the maximum speed limit should be 60Kph within city and 110Kph on the highway (depending on the vehicle of course).

PS: I think if we do implement a system like this, we will save a lot of lives but then, people will surely be after our blood
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Old 19th September 2016, 18:41   #21801
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Default Re: Pics: Accidents in India

Ideally all cars (emphasis on all cars because there should be no double standards for the road IMO) should be limited to the actual road speed on every road out there and be connected 24/7 through gps that controls the limiter according to the road rules. And as soon as you entered a track the limiter would turn off. This is India though and I don't see that happening anytime soon if ever in the next 20 years.

If you restrict celerio or a similar car, for the same money you get a performance oriented motorcycle that will continuously cross your cars with practically 1cm gap scaring you to death. Considering how many there are already, I'd sure as heck would not want any more.
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Old 19th September 2016, 19:11   #21802
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Default Re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by Viv3k View Post
To add on to your idea, we don't need speed limits for each road (honestly, I don't even think the cops are aware of it). We can use the traffic data obtained from Google to analyse the flow of traffic and set a dynamic speed limit on the vehicle. However, the maximum speed limit should be 60Kph within city and 110Kph on the highway (depending on the vehicle of course).

PS: I think if we do implement a system like this, we will save a lot of lives but then, people will surely be after our blood
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdst_1 View Post
Actually, I had an idea regarding something similar.
What I had in mind was a GPS based system that would be linked with a speed controller. All we would need would be proper Maps with latest speed limits. This would help in enforcing speed limits. If such a system comes installed mandatory from the factory, people would be forced to drive within speed limits. No need to spend on speed cameras and people benefit by not having to worry about challans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swarit19 View Post
Ideally all cars (emphasis on all cars because there should be no double standards for the road IMO) should be limited to the actual road speed on every road out there and be connected 24/7 through gps that controls the limiter according to the road rules. And as soon as you entered a track the limiter would turn off.
This discussion on Quora is worth a read:
Why are cars made to go significantly faster than the highest national speed limit?

Would love to hear your take on the need to escape from some danger (attempted robbery, natural disaster and so on) or medical emergency. Also, how to ensure that the vehicle's ECU gets access to speed restrictions, etc live. Last but not least, how not to call this snooping and breach of privacy, if you haven't ever thought about it.
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Old 19th September 2016, 19:25   #21803
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Default Re: Pics: Accidents in India

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdst_1 View Post
...
What I had in mind was a GPS based system that would be linked with a speed controller. All we would need would be proper Maps with latest speed limits. ....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viv3k View Post
To add on to your idea, we don't need speed limits for each road (honestly, I don't even think the cops are aware of it). We can use the traffic data obtained from Google to analyse the flow of traffic and set a dynamic speed limit on the vehicle. However, the maximum speed limit should be 60Kph within city and 110Kph on the highway (depending on the vehicle of course).
...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swarit19 View Post
Ideally all cars (emphasis on all cars because there should be no double standards for the road IMO) should be limited to the actual road speed on every road out there and be connected 24/7 through gps that controls the limiter according to the road rules. And as soon as you entered a track the limiter would turn off. ...
...
Far simpler solution. Set up a FM like frequency (which is active over an area and fades off over city size distances). The signal reception should inhibit speed to set city limit.
Limitation: In higher speed roads too would have speed limited though!
(Small limitation in my view, as very few roads have higher speed limits than rest of city have).
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Old 19th September 2016, 20:10   #21804
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Default Re: Pics: Accidents in India

Everybody suddenly seems to want technical solutions to speed, when the problem is not with the car, or with technology, it is with the driver.

Let me repeat: A speed limit, whether it is a sign on a board, or some super-techie location-dependent engine limiter, does not indicate that that speed is safe.

Let me repeat how I learnt that. I was driving on a rural UK main road. I saw a 50MPH-limit sign, and reduced my speed to 50MPH. I saw a crossroads-ahead sign. As I reached the crossroads, some guy pulled out in front of me and stalled. I braked hard, but could not avoid hitting him.

I was absolved by the local police. The other guy got a warning for "driving without due care and attention." Not my fault... but a little more thinking about potential hazzards and slowing down and that accident might never have happened. Which would have left several people happier!

It id driver training, understanding and responsibility that counts, Without them, the only technology that will help is a computer called HAL, saying, "Sorry: I can't allow you to drive this car..."
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Old 19th September 2016, 21:25   #21805
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silversteed View Post
This discussion on Quora is worth a read:
Why are cars made to go significantly faster than the highest national speed limit?

Would love to hear your take on the need to escape from some danger (attempted robbery, natural disaster and so on) or medical emergency. Also, how to ensure that the vehicle's ECU gets access to speed restrictions, etc live. Last but not least, how not to call this snooping and breach of privacy, if you haven't ever thought about it.
The point of the need to escape in a case of emergency is a valid one and can be very easily taken care of with building an emergency mode into the system. When someone uses the emergency mode, the authorities can then later on verify whether it was justified use of the system or not.

As for concerns regarding privacy breach, in a connected world where we use machines and technologies for easier governance, this will always be a point of concern.

Also, the need to deploy such a system will actually be diminished as we get close to driver-less cars as they will be much more accomplished than such a basic crude system of making people do the right thing.
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Old 19th September 2016, 22:24   #21806
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Default Re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by rdst_1 View Post
What I had in mind was a GPS based system that would be linked with a speed controller.
Our government has utterly failed to enforce speed limiters in yellow-board vehicles. Don't give them ideas to target white board vehicles, given that we're a far softer target! One misguided PIL lost us our sunfilm in a tropical country. Let them not take away another of the small thrills in life, just because of the few who can't use it but end up abusing it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
Everybody suddenly seems to want technical solutions to speed, when the problem is not with the car, or with technology, it is with the driver.
Absolutely agree - we are talking about complex technical solutions, then we're putting in exceptions to the programmed rules for emergencies, etc. Technology cannot replace common sense, and should only be used as an aid.

The Role of Telematics
That said, I must point out that abroad, telematics has become a big thing for automotive insurance. Essentially, you plug in a little gadget into your car which tracks things like speed, acceleration and braking, and uses that to arrive at a driving score. That in turn influences your insurance premium, based on things like "consistent speeds well above speed limit", "aggressive acceleration" and "aggressive braking".

The very action of opting in to telematics itself reduces your premium, since it indicates your willingness to be monitored. You can then influence your premium based on the kind of driving patterns mentioned above. Drive like a jerk, and your driver score reduces, resulting in a higher premium.

Maybe this could be adopted for India in a way where the driving score also influences an annual road tax. Combining telematics and annual road tax is a great idea, since getting it implemented in our collective lifetime by our bureaucracy will be an impossibility
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Old 19th September 2016, 23:22   #21807
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Originally Posted by arunphilip View Post
Our government has utterly failed to enforce speed limiters in yellow-board vehicles. Don't give them ideas to target white board vehicles, given that we're a far softer target! One misguided PIL lost us our sunfilm in a tropical country. Let them not take away another of the small thrills in life, just because of the few who can't use it but end up abusing it.
Well actually I find driving to be extremely boring because I try to follow all rules and speed limits. And I feel that driving on public roads shouldn't be considered a thrill in life. And actually it's not few but most drivers who abuse our system.
Also I also belong to the school of thought that normal driving should be boring and just about getting from point A to B in a safe and sedate manner, maintaining proper distances and following lane driving.
That's why I can't wait for driverless cars to become the norm. Public roads are not a place to have fun. I love driving like a race car driver but not on public roads.

Last edited by rdst_1 : 19th September 2016 at 23:24.
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Old 20th September 2016, 01:51   #21808
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Default Re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by rdst_1 View Post
Well actually I find driving to be extremely boring because I try to follow all rules and speed limits.
Absolutely buddy, l am also the boring type driver. In my view, it is the driver's responsibility to keep yourself and fellow road users safe.

And for the people who wishes to take the thrills on public roads, you are not only subjecting yourself to the risks but also the fellow road users.
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Old 20th September 2016, 01:59   #21809
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Default Re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by rdst_1 View Post
driving like a race car driver but not on public roads.
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The Porsche accident is a shining example of a racer having his small thrills on a public road. One idiot who abuses is enough to deny the rest of the population the freedom.
My opposition to a technical solution of speed governors does not mean I'm advocating driving rashly, like a racer, or mowing down people.

The point I'm making is that a clunky and complicated technical solution is not a replacement for common sense. And that we should stop running to technology to solve problems that are better addressed through driver education (or cutting drivers out of the loop altogether via driverless cars) and enforcement.

That's why I like the preamble to the German Highway Code, which states the following before bringing up any discussion of actual speed limits:
Quote:
Any person driving a vehicle may only drive so fast that the car is under control. Speeds must be adapted to the road, traffic, visibility and weather conditions as well as the personal skills and characteristics of the vehicle and load.
Summarized in two words, I'd say that means "Drive sensibly", and is the point that Thad made earlier.

Having said that, I think we'll have to agree to disagree. In any case, we're not framing policy here , so I'll refrain from further discussions on this point.
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Old 20th September 2016, 06:25   #21810
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If only we could teach and imbibe in all drivers' minds that "the herd can only move as fast as the slowest buffalo." One in the middle wants to move faster just because he can, he hits a few on the way.!
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