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Old 26th October 2016, 14:13   #22081
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Originally Posted by SDP View Post
I do understand that 'instinct' plays a huge role in such scenarios and the natural instinct is to steer away from the obstacle and keep on doing it hoping till the last moment that you might just clear it. What I am asking is - can one train himself to control the instinct and take a conscious decision to get into a hit in a more controlled fashion (which is favourable to the occupant's safety)? Is that possible at all?
Yes, it is possible. In Germany, they actually train people for that. In case of ice on road it is practically (and theoretically as well) impossible to brake and in such cases it is better to hit a divider or a side rail or another vehicle (last option) as early as possible before the vehicle gains momentum.

Although, speeds at which this is done, are much lesser.
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Old 26th October 2016, 15:07   #22082
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Originally Posted by peterjim13 View Post
Airbags ?? Anyone ?

I cant see them inflated. Looks like yours is a W8. With hell loads of Air Bags.

Very unfortunate though !
If you notice, there is no impact on the front bumper.
The airbag triggers will be behind it.
Even the crumple zones did not come into act.
It is the high sitting position of the truck, absence of underrun bar and probably some speed is the cocktail that resulted in this.
I wasn't expecting the airbags to go off.
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Old 26th October 2016, 15:24   #22083
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Default Re: Pics: Accidents in India

As most of you from this part of the country know, this single carriageway is a serene and peaceful drive but at the same time tempting and dangerous. Apart from defensive driving, a bit a luck factor needed so that these heavy ones will not come and smash your car.

An accident that occurred this morning-

http://www.newindianexpress.com/stat...u-1532008.html

Quote:
MYSURU: Five persons were killed and several others were injured in a head-on collision between a Karnataka KSRTC bus and a lorry at a fog-enveloped spot in Madhugirikoppa in Bannikuppe village of Hunsur taluk early this morning.

The incident occurred at around 5.45 am. The bus was bound for Mysuru from Virajpet. While the drivers of both buses and the conductor of the KSRTC bus died on the spot, a few others were grievously injured are their condition is said to be serious.

According to the police, the bus was overtaking another vehicle when the accident occurred. There was also a thick blanket of fog in the area at the time.

The injured have been rushed to K R Hospital in Mysuru. Superintendent ofpolice Ravi D Channanawar has visited the place. A case has been registered at the Hunsur rural police station.
Pics: Accidents in India-whatsapp-image-20161026-2.38.38-pm.jpeg
Pics: Accidents in India-whatsapp-image-20161026-2.38.39-pm.jpeg
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Old 26th October 2016, 15:31   #22084
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Default Re: Pics: Accidents in India

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An accident that occurred this morning
This could have been worst but for Rice / Flour bags in my opinion.
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Old 26th October 2016, 15:33   #22085
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Default Re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by SDP View Post
You are standing on your brakes and trying to steer away from the truck ahead. At one point of time, you realize that the hit is inevitable. At this point, should one correct the direction and 'opt' for a direct frontal hit so that the crumple zone and the airbags come into the picture?

I do understand that 'instinct' plays a huge role in such scenarios and the natural instinct is to steer away from the obstacle and keep on doing it hoping till the last moment that you might just clear it. What I am asking is - can one train himself to control the instinct and take a conscious decision to get into a hit in a more controlled fashion (which is favourable to the occupant's safety)? Is that possible at all?
I think it is that moment when your real self will come out and take control. You will be surprised to meet that person.
I had this experience. I was driving my Fortuner on Davanagere road toward Bangalore. Speed 100+. One Audi A4 over took me from left without notice, came in my lane and applied brakes
I did panic braking,
1. looked at all my occupants to see that everybody is belted
2. Looked at the left ORVM to see nobody is on my left
3. Steered to the left while standing on the brake [ABS, EBD, ESP and god-knows-what all three letter and four letter words came to my rescue ]
4. Chose the left side tail lamp of him and right side head lamp of mine as our meeting point to reduce the damage on both vehicles and avoid the air bag deployment in my car
5. Was doing calculation of how much is it going to cost me
6. Finally, could manage to miss my target by inches and slide by his side.
7. When i came to halt, I was sitting next to his front passenger door. Had I hit him and intruded into his cabin, I would be sitting in his driving seat

All this drama was happening in fraction of a second. I am sure I wasn't controlling the situation consciously. I just did it and if I look back I am not sure how I did that.
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Old 26th October 2016, 15:34   #22086
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Originally Posted by manipal View Post
It was a relaxed drive with family.
I hope you are doing fine now. I understand the situation here was tricky but pardon my question i dont think you were doing any high speed runs at the time of impact to end up like this. Looks mostly like an underrun that impacted the A pillar to push the dashboard further in the cabin, but more than that what happened to the rear wheel?
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Old 26th October 2016, 15:39   #22087
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Originally Posted by ecenandu View Post
Coming back to your question, ' can one train himself to control the instinct and take a conscious decision to get into a hit in a more controlled fashion (which is favourable to the occupant's safety)? Is that possible at all?'

Of course we can train the drivers, but it won't guarantee that the driver will make the correct choice every time.
I beg to differ. I drive a Maruti 800 which has horrible brakes and also are not power assisted (compared to modern cars) and a Hyundai Getz which has vacuum assisted braking (which has no ABS). I have also driven a couple of other vehicles whose brake pedal sensitivity varies. What I have learnt while juggling all the cars is that you have to feel the brakes when you are trying to brake. When I drive a car, I always pay attention to my deceleration rate, my distance of stopping and tyre noise and apply more or less brakes while constantly judging all the parameters. And I can almost all the times get the braking just right to not screech the tyres.

I have huge craters lying undetected on the roads most of the times and hence I have learned a few tips. I have to panic brake at least one time per 100 kms and so I am a self-proclaimed expert.

So, it has become my habit that at any point of time, when I try to brake, I see the distance and predict my brake application so that I just stop inches away from him. Then I start honking continuously so that any driver behind me senses something is wrong there and also starts to brake. This is irrespective of city traffic or highway stopping or crater avoiding. During the process, if I sense that the stopping power is not enough, I look into the mirrors and take some action.

As far as my experience goes, whenever we see an obstacle, we try to swerve. But this is just the instinct we learned from our driving on indian roads and lack of proper driving education (no offence to anyone). Whenever we see an obstacle, we should learn to hit the brakes and come as close to the obstacle as possible. By then, the speed is low and you will have better grip so you can make the emergency manoeuvre. When you reach the point of emergency manoeuvre, leave the brakes completely and turn the wheel. Because this way you will have more grip (learnt it from motorsport. Never brake into a corner). On the other hand, if we swerve at high speeds, we loose traction and it takes some time and careful correction to get back the lost traction.

I think people who want to be safe drivers should learn a bit of car handling from the crucible of motorsport (top gear reference).

There are more tips as well such as the turning of your steering wheel should always be inversely proportional to the speed you are carrying. People with electric steering just flick their wheel all the time not having a sense of what limits of grip do they have or how much roll are they inducing or what is the weight distribution. You may have a bit of understeer or tripod oversteer or roll. Of course, even if all these don't happen, at least the children will certainly get car sick. So, at least for their sake, the turn in should always be inversely proportional to the speeds we are doing.

One rule of thumb I can advocate is that it takes certain amount of time for you to jump from one lane to another at 30 kmph. It should take the same time for you to jump from one lane to another at 90kmph. If you are changing lanes faster, then you are turning your steering wheel too much.

Hope it helps us make us all better drivers.

Last edited by aveemashfaq : 26th October 2016 at 15:44.
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Old 26th October 2016, 15:43   #22088
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Default Re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by balenoed_ View Post
An accident that occurred this morning-

http://www.newindianexpress.com/stat...u-1532008.html
What a ghastly accident! Look how far the lorry's cabin has protruded into the bus . Seems like visibility was virtually zero and neither of them even braked. If the bus was overtaking and came into the lorry's lane, it is sheer carelessness on the part of the KSRTC bus driver. When fog had limited his visibility so much he had no business jumping lanes and trying an overtaking manoeuvre.
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Old 26th October 2016, 16:00   #22089
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Originally Posted by Santoshbhat View Post
it is sheer carelessness on the part of the KSRTC bus driver.
I think this is not just limited to Bus drivers or lorry drivers.
Once I landed in Chicago international airport under ZERO visibility and the captain announces that he could see as much as each of us could
While taxing to the port, he narrowly missed the wing of a huge Jumbo that was parked on the ground. I could see it only when our wing tip was few feet away from its.
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Old 26th October 2016, 16:24   #22090
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Default Re: Pics: Accidents in India

After seeing what happened to Manipal, I think BNVSAP better make under-run bars compulsory for truck. The passenger would've been saved in that case.
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Old 26th October 2016, 16:24   #22091
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Originally Posted by aveemashfaq View Post
I beg to differ.
Hmm, I don't quite understand what you trying to differ from my opinion. See buddy, I quite like your braking and steering techniques that you use. You are advocating to know the limits of the car, right.

Your post make my earlier point even more valid now. Of course we can train the drivers, but it won't guarantee that the driver will make the correct choice every time.

All we can do is, reduce the likelihood of an accident by defensive driving techniques as well as some of the techniques mentioned by you.

EDIT:
Quote:
I have to panic brake at least one time per 100 kms and so I am a self-proclaimed expert.
Missed this one, I read it as 100 Kmph. Wow, that frequency is quite a lot in my opinion. I haven't driven much, so, not an expert but let me count the times I have done panic braking, hmm, say less than 10 !

BTW, maybe my definition of panic braking is different from yours.

Last edited by ecenandu : 26th October 2016 at 16:35.
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Old 26th October 2016, 16:33   #22092
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Originally Posted by manipal View Post
I just want to say to all from my experience, whenever there is smoke on the road, just remember my episode.
Very recently I experienced something similar, but not with smoke. This time it was rain water.

Mid September, when I was returning home in the night from my native village, it was raining very heavily (cloud burst kind of thing) between Tindivanam and Chengalpattu. My windscreen wiper was working at its top speed position but still struggling to clear the water falling.

Car speed reduced to nearly 40~50 KMPH and I was on the fast lane trying to move ahead of a bus which is on the slow lane. My lane was clear ahead.

That's when the bus crosses a shallow pool of water (in its own lane) and its rear wheel throw gallons of water on my wind screen!

Instantaneous blinding and next moment I slam the brakes and also see on the rear view mirror. Fortunately at that time no other vehicle was tailing me, else it would've been a rear-ending accident.

Lady Luck smiled at me that day.

Adding to what you said, whenever it is raining, just remember my episode!
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Old 26th October 2016, 16:56   #22093
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Originally Posted by SDP View Post

Was the point of impact along the diagonal of the car?

Did any part of the engine bay breached the firewall boundary and pushed/protruded into the passenger cabin at the front?
Thanks for these questions SDP, will help us understand the car better.

We shall wait for the owner to respond, but on closer observation it looks like trucks underbody skimmed the top left of bonnet ( Even left headlights are not completely damaged ) and hit the left A pillar hard which seems fractured, which may have caused dash to fall/get pushed towards front seat.

I do not think engine bay must have protruded inside in this accident.

Really unfortunate accident and if I were in his seat, I would have reacted in similar manner as I assume it must have been very difficult to judge the thickness and visibility of smoke at 8.30pm at night.

The other factor being, on most occasions we feel we will get out of the smoke in a jiffy and it wont last for more than a second or two.

Last edited by silverado : 26th October 2016 at 17:13.
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Old 26th October 2016, 20:01   #22094
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Originally Posted by SDP View Post
Sorry to hear about the nasty shunt. I hope everyone is safe and sound without any major injuries.

When you get some time, please share some additional insights into the accident:
1. What was approx speed at the time of impact?
2. The XUV seems like a W8. Did the front airbags got deployed? From the pics it looks like they didn't.
3. Was the point of impact along the diagonal of the car?
4. From the last pic, the pipe on which the dashboard is mounted seems to have broken and it seems the dashboard got pushed into the front seats. Hope there were no leg injuries.
5. Did any part of the engine bay breached the firewall boundary and pushed/protruded into the passenger cabin at the front?

Again, glad that you are safe!
My mother was on to my left, since she was wearing the seat belt, she was glued to the seat at the time of impact,

1. I should have been around 60 to 70kmps as i had applied light brakes already, so on spotting the truck i slammed immediately and the tyre screeching was heard.
2. To my surprise none of the airbags opened, after all even if the impact was higher, at least A pillar bags should have opened.
3. I did sense I had no way to avoid the collision, I thought there might be another tuck on the left side, so instinctively steered to the right side as the divider was at least 12-15 feet wide. So the impact was diagonal.
4. The fire wall caved in on the left side with the strut mount and the strut intact, the fire wall moved away from me on the right side. No leg,knee injuries, we had to recline the back rest of the seat and my mother walked out.
5. Engine did not cave in, but the strut mount on the left side came into the cabin. The strut just stretched long and did not break.

Quote:
Originally Posted by landcruiser123 View Post
After seeing what happened to Manipal, I think BNVSAP better make under-run bars compulsory for truck. The passenger would've been saved in that case.
This truck did not have even a number plate, as i recollect. After the impact i could see the truck crawling ahead as he did not stop after the collision. No lights, safety bars, reflectors.

Last edited by Gannu_1 : 26th October 2016 at 21:30. Reason: Back to back posts merged. Please use the multi-quote option (QUOTE+) while quoting and responding to multiple posts.
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Old 26th October 2016, 20:09   #22095
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Originally Posted by manipal View Post
I should have been around 60 to 70kmps as i had applied light brakes already, so on spotting the truck i slammed immediately and the tyre screeching was heard.

To my surprise none of the airbags opened, after all even if the impact was higher, at least A pillar bags should have opened.
Thanks for your reply, from above two posts can we assume your relative velocity was lower for Airbags to deploy at the time of impact?

XUV experts can tell us what is mentioned in Owners manual.
Glad to know your mother walked out safe.
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