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Old 26th October 2016, 20:18   #22096
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Originally Posted by landcruiser123 View Post
After seeing what happened to Manipal, I think BNVSAP better make under-run bars compulsory for truck. The passenger would've been saved in that case.
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Originally Posted by adi_sun View Post
I hope you are doing fine now. I understand the situation here was tricky but pardon my question i dont think you were doing any high speed runs at the time of impact to end up like this. Looks mostly like an underrun that impacted the A pillar to push the dashboard further in the cabin, but more than that what happened to the rear wheel?
Thanks to my stars no one had any injuries. I had just stopped the car for a pee 5 minutes back. I had just shifted to sixth gear and set the speed to 80KMPS, I has my sister and her two kids(6yrs and 2yrs) at the rear. I usually cruise at 80 to 90kmps and get a fuel efficiency of 15-16 kmpl on my bangalore trips. My phone was kept in the bottle holder near the gear and was broken, or else would have shared the FE values from the app. I suspected there could be another truck on the left side, so decided to climb onto the divider. But since i applied brakes the car did not have the momentum to climb up. I have reached speeds over 120kmph only a handful of times in the three years i owned the xuv.
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Old 26th October 2016, 20:19   #22097
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Default Re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
..
This is exactly the problem that Tesla is trying to solve with their autonomous cars. When given multiple options, which is the least deadly option to choose if an accident is inevitable.



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Typical backside of a smoky Indian truck.

...
Not sure if aiming for "keep distance" board (at the centre) on the truck would have helped. Without an under-run bar, it would have still bypassed the crumple zone of any car/SUV. SUVs are high-riding but only relative to a car, not to a truck.
...
Going under a tall vehicle like truck or a bus is a very specific scenario (and quite hopeless one at that). May be I sent you on a wrong track by mentioning 'truck' in my question. My question was actually more generic - If you are heading into a unavoidable accident, should one try to hit straight?
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Old 26th October 2016, 21:07   #22098
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Originally Posted by rajeshsundaram View Post
From my own accident experience, I believe 40KMPH or 80KMPH is not the only factor that determines the damage. The heaviness of the lorry (overloaded), and when XUV hit the lorry, it's engine was still running pushing the vehicle forward a bit more, or the torque have pushed forward for half second or one second (until the electricals break up) which could have caused some serious damage. XUV is fairly heavy too, combined with mHawk's 330nm of torque @ 2000-2200 rpm at 80KMPH equates to a possibility of such damage. I may be wrong here though.

The other issue I noted is - switching off the head lamps. Had the lamps were ON, the chances of noticing the lorry would have been a bit high.

Good thing is - the occupants are alive.
I do remember well switching off the cruise on the steering wheel. I did switch off the high beam only, low beams were still on. the car did not misbehave till the hit, ABS worked and i did negotiate a 20 degree curve of the road to the right, where i spotted the truck.

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Originally Posted by for_cars1 View Post
Well, the XUV is certainly not made of cardboard.
I would like to share two things about the brakes my xuv 5oo here

1. Even on slamming the brakes hard, the car always responded with minimal brake force for the first second or less and then braking effect significantly increased by many folds from the next second on wards. I had complained about it three times in the past during service, but once the workshop changed the front pads and then on they said it is common complaint with other owners as well. I always sensed that the booster capacity was inadequate, because on double peddling the braking was always crisp. In the new age xuv which i test drove this problem seemed to be rectified.

2. The rear brakes had some jarring/jamming for a second specially when we ride over rumblers.

Last edited by Gannu_1 : 26th October 2016 at 21:30. Reason: Back to back posts merged. Please use the multi-quote option (QUOTE+) while quoting and responding to multiple posts.
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Old 26th October 2016, 21:31   #22099
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Default Re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by manipal View Post
1. I should have been around 60 to 70kmps as i had applied light brakes already, so on spotting the truck I slammed immediately and the tyre screeching was heard.
Firstly, everyone is safe which is very important. Thank your stars for that.

However on the quoted part, should the tyre really screech in a vehicle with ABS. ABS is meant to avoid this screeching. I am really surprised that the tyres screeched even with ABS on the vehicle. What could have caused it, can someone explain

I have had a couple of real hard braking scenarios (literally standing on the brakes), the tyres did not screech in both more so one during the rains.
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Old 26th October 2016, 22:09   #22100
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Default Re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by Srikanthan View Post
Very recently I experienced something similar, but not with smoke. This time it was rain water.

Mid September, when I was returning home in the night from my native village, it was raining very heavily (cloud burst kind of thing) between Tindivanam and Chengalpattu. My windscreen wiper was working at its top speed position but still struggling to clear the water falling.

Car speed reduced to nearly 40~50 KMPH and I was on the fast lane trying to move ahead of a bus which is on the slow lane. My lane was clear ahead.

That's when the bus crosses a shallow pool of water (in its own lane) and its rear wheel throw gallons of water on my wind screen!

Instantaneous blinding and next moment I slam the brakes and also see on the rear view mirror. Fortunately at that time no other vehicle was tailing me, else it would've been a rear-ending accident.

Lady Luck smiled at me that day.

Adding to what you said, whenever it is raining, just remember my episode!
I faced similar situation , only difference being that it was day time and vehicle was coming from opposite direction. I knew my lane was empty and clear, so did not applied brakes but just slowed down by releasing pedal off the accelerator. But no doubt, it is downright scary if it happens during night or during traffic.

Last edited by xs2mayank : 26th October 2016 at 22:10. Reason: spelling mistake
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Old 26th October 2016, 22:30   #22101
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Default Re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by nkrishnap View Post
ABS is meant to avoid this screeching. I am really surprised that the tyres screeched even with ABS on the vehicle. What could have caused it, can someone explain

I have had a couple of real hard braking scenarios (literally standing on the brakes), the tyres did not screech in both more so one during the rains.
ABS is meant to avoid 'continuous' skidding. It nothing to do with avoiding screeching. This means in some cases there could be momentary lockup of brakes which will create a screeching noise and this might not be as intense as a car without ABS(the filmy sounds). Since ABS cycles brake pressure multiple times per second, though the screech would be non continuous, the on and off noise can be rarely recognised, especially when the mind is occupied with an emergency situation.

In wet conditions the screeching should be less or non existent especially with ABS since the water acts as a nice lubricant and does cause much friction for the screeching sound to happen. Also the sharper the brakes, more chances of lockup much before ABS can react. Maybe your car has lesser brake bite which will allow ABS to react much quicker than the wheel can lockup and thus no noises.

Check this video of the XUV with and without ABS. You can also notice the screech with ABS and no screech on wet surface in both ABS and Non ABS scenario.

Last edited by audioholic : 26th October 2016 at 22:35.
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Old 27th October 2016, 12:33   #22102
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Default Re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by nkrishnap View Post
However on the quoted part, should the tyre really screech in a vehicle with ABS. ABS is meant to avoid this screeching.
I drive Fortuner with ABS and another car again with ABS.
In panic breaking situations, I always observed tyres screeching.
ABS makes sure that wheels don't lock up completely and lets you maneuver the vehicle while it is braking. As all of us know, it increases the braking distance. So, I think it increases the Screeching time too
But, tyres does screech always.

NOTE: Please don't try to simulate the scenario and test. You will get your opportunity
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Old 27th October 2016, 13:00   #22103
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Default Re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by nkrishnap View Post
ABS is meant to avoid this screeching. I am really surprised that the tyres screeched even with ABS on the vehicle. What could have caused it, can someone explain
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Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
ABS is meant to avoid 'continuous' skidding. It nothing to do with avoiding screeching.
I own a 2014 model XUV and can relate to the screeching sound mentioned. It is not due to wheel lock but due to tyre not able to get proper grip. This can be noticed if you take fast turns on smooth concrete surface with XUV. I guess this is most noticiable with XUV's OEM Bridgestone and Apollo tyres.
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Old 27th October 2016, 14:07   #22104
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Default Re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by SDP View Post
I do understand that 'instinct' plays a huge role in such scenarios and the natural instinct is to steer away from the obstacle and keep on doing it hoping till the last moment that you might just clear it. What I am asking is - can one train himself to control the instinct and take a conscious decision to get into a hit in a more controlled fashion (which is favourable to the occupant's safety)? Is that possible at all?
It is possible to make split second decision but is it the right one is questionable . Its just sheer intuition and luck also. I had an incident in Israel while driving on the highway with 2 lanes I had a big wild dog come in front of my car and a truck parallel to me on right and barricade on the left. In that split second I did think through that swerving is not going to help since I would hit truck or barricade which can do more damage to me. So I braked and went straight hitting the dog at 80kmph. The result was airbags deployed due to the impact though physically externally car had minimal damage other than broken number plate.

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Originally Posted by FORTified View Post
I did panic braking,
1. looked at all my occupants to see that everybody is belted
2. Looked at the left ORVM to see nobody is on my left
3. Steered to the left while standing on the brake [ABS, EBD, ESP and god-knows-what all three letter and four letter words came to my rescue ]
4. Chose the left side tail lamp of him and right side head lamp of mine as our meeting point to reduce the damage on both vehicles and avoid the air bag deployment in my car
5. Was doing calculation of how much is it going to cost me
6. Finally, could manage to miss my target by inches and slide by his side.
7. When i came to halt, I was sitting next to his front passenger door. Had I hit him and intruded into his cabin, I would be sitting in his driving seat
.
NOt doubting your facts but on a lighter note, you really got super hero skills if you could think and do all of this in that split second reaction time

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Originally Posted by manipal View Post
1. I should have been around 60 to 70kmps as i had applied light brakes already, so on spotting the truck i slammed immediately and the tyre screeching was heard.
2. To my surprise none of the airbags opened, after all even if the impact was higher, at least A pillar bags should have opened.
Good to know that everyone is safe. Now coming to airbags. I think its clear that front airbags couldn't have deployed as impact was not seen by bumper areas at all. Regarding the side air bags the sensor for that are on the side between the doors as per my understanding. Its more for a T impact when someone rams head on side ways and not for diagonal hits. So technically this accident could not have had air bag deployment.

Stark reminder that we can get cars with as many air bags and safety features but unfortunately they cant cover all possible scenarios. Accidents can still happen

Quote:
Originally Posted by nkrishnap View Post
Firstly, everyone is safe which is very important. Thank your stars for that.

However on the quoted part, should the tyre really screech in a vehicle with ABS. ABS is meant to avoid this screeching. I am really surprised that the tyres screeched even with ABS on the vehicle. What could have caused it, can someone explain

I have had a couple of real hard braking scenarios (literally standing on the brakes), the tyres did not screech in both more so one during the rains.
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Originally Posted by FORTified View Post
I drive Fortuner with ABS and another car again with ABS.
In panic breaking situations, I always observed tyres screeching.
ABS makes sure that wheels don't lock up completely and lets you maneuver the vehicle while it is braking. As all of us know, it increases the braking distance. So, I think it increases the Screeching time too
But, tyres does screech always.

NOTE: Please don't try to simulate the scenario and test. You will get your opportunity
Tyres start squealing under hard braking even without ABS kicking in. Esp on XUVs with bridgestone duellers its very easily done. Even under medium braking they squeal a lot.
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Old 27th October 2016, 14:16   #22105
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Default Re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by FORTified View Post
As all of us know, it increases the braking distance.
But this isn't right! It doesn't always increase the braking distance.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...on-thread.html (The ABS discussion thread)
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Old 27th October 2016, 16:07   #22106
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Default Re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by SDP View Post
What I am asking is - can one train himself to control the instinct and take a conscious decision to get into a hit in a more controlled fashion (which is favourable to the occupant's safety)? Is that possible at all?
If one can train one's instinct to "hit in a more controlled fashion", one can more easily train oneself not to get into the situation at all where a crash is inevitable.
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Originally Posted by FORTified View Post
I think it is that moment when your real self will come out and take control.
Speed 100+.
I did panic braking,
1. looked at all my occupants to see that everybody is belted
2. Looked at the left ORVM to see nobody is on my left
3. Steered to the left...
4. Chose the left side tail lamp of him and right side head lamp of mine as our meeting point...
5. Was doing calculation ...
6. Finally, could manage to miss my target...

All this drama was happening in fraction of a second. I am sure I wasn't controlling the situation consciously. I just did it and if I look back I am not sure how I did that.
Except #1 & #6, the rest of the activities were something you thought you should have done, in retrospect. Or in your dream (nightmare?) that night.

If your instinct was so well-honed, you would have realized that a dangerous situation was developing as soon as the Audi was about to pass you on the left.

Driving is NOT an instinctive activity, I am sorry to say, and I still count my seconds every time I drive.

Last edited by SS-Traveller : 27th October 2016 at 16:15. Reason: Typo
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Old 27th October 2016, 17:46   #22107
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If one can train one's instinct to "hit in a more controlled fashion", one can more easily train oneself not to get into the situation at all where a crash is inevitable.

Except #1 & #6, the rest of the activities were something you thought you should have done, in retrospect. Or in your dream (nightmare?) that night.

If your instinct was so well-honed, you would have realized that a dangerous situation was developing as soon as the Audi was about to pass you on the left.

Driving is NOT an instinctive activity, I am sorry to say, and I still count my seconds every time I drive.
Well...The moment that Audi passed me on the left, I was thinking of that Moron. As soon as he started braking, I followed suite.
You may consider it to be a dream, but then I am living a dream. Lucky me

Driving indeed is highly instinctive activity, where all your instincts need to be few degrees off balance and always on the look out for the next mishap that needs to be avoided.
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Old 27th October 2016, 18:54   #22108
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Driving indeed is highly instinctive activity, where all your instincts need to be few degrees off balance...
https://practicalmotoring.com.au/voi...natural-skill/

https://practicalmotoring.com.au/car...better-driver/

Hope these 2 articles help explain things a little better.
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Old 27th October 2016, 20:38   #22109
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[url]
Hope these 2 articles help explain things a little better.
Thanks SS for those articles.Someone from abroad can come to india and start driving to improve on their reflexes without having to spend on any course

More than driving skills, our roads require keen sense of anticipation at all times, even when a vehicle is standstill!
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Old 27th October 2016, 22:21   #22110
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Someone from abroad can come to india and start driving to improve on their reflexes without having to spend on any course
I like how you express your sarcasm so subtly with a green smiley. Indian drivers have amazingly Superman-like reflexes, it's true, and the results are there for all to see. The country consistently receives the gold medal for the number of accidents per year for the last 5 years, with a record-setting 14+ accidents per hour, 1 crash-related death every 4 minutes, 1474 pages of pictures and 22k+ posts on this forum. And we still believe our hyperactive reflexes will keep us safe while other idiots will crash and burn because they don't have the reflexes suitable enough to drive cars on Indian roads.
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...our roads require keen sense of anticipation at all times...
Anticipation and reflex are two different things. Not putting one's finger into boiling water requires anticipation, but snatching the hand away once one gets burned is reflex. Anticipation is knowing when the water might burn even if not boiling, and this needs training; but the reflex that causes one to snatch back the burned hand does not need any course or education.

Last edited by SS-Traveller : 27th October 2016 at 22:23.
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