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Old 16th June 2011, 10:45   #8461
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A terrible crash happened in the wee hours of Wednesday morning (June 15, ~4 am) at the NH 8 in Gurgaon. Four young kids, in their teens and early tweens went out for a joyride in a Swift Dzire, as the weather turned pleasant in Delhi NCR post rains. They were speeding along the National Highway when they rear-ended a stationary tipper, parked on the fast lane in the highway. Three of them died on the spot and the fourth boy is in a serious condition in the hospital with severe brain injury.

This is such a tragedy and makes me ponder over whose fault is it anyway. The kids were to be blamed as they were speeding. But young people in that age group tend to be rash and it was not that they were speeding in a crowded area but on a national highway where the speed limit is set at 80 kmph.

I see a lot of trucks and lorrys stranded in the NH8. The main reason being that they are old, not well maintained and not road worthy. Added to that there are hoards of shared autos and tractor with trailers on the highway. These slow-moving vehicles should not be on the highway. So many lives have been lost because a broke down lorry is just sitting on the highway.

Should not the authorities be very rigourous in passing the road worthiness test of vehicles that ply on highways? Should not the Corridor Patrol reprimand the shared autos and tractor plying on the highways? I know, its the eternal debate of corruption and the lackadaisical attitude of authoroties. But how many more lives do we lose to come to senses. I am very sad and angry.

Source: TOI
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Old 16th June 2011, 11:04   #8462
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Originally Posted by IQBAL VEERJI View Post
Sir ji, pls give more details about place how to go and the route?????????
Please refer to this nicely compiled travelogue for the same:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/travel...age-india.html (Road Trip to the Last Village of India)

Also search the travelogues/route queries section for more info if required.

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Originally Posted by Gooney View Post

Should not the authorities be very rigourous in passing the road worthiness test of vehicles that ply on highways? Should not the Corridor Patrol reprimand the shared autos and tractor plying on the highways? I know, its the eternal debate of corruption and the lackadaisical attitude of authoroties. But how many more lives do we lose to come to senses. I am very sad and angry.
Totally empathize with you on this mate, 3 lives perishing because of utter neglect from concerned authorities. But we also need to understand and adapt to the ground realities of our country. People need to be all the more careful on the death traps that our highways are, especially when its dark. That's the reason why I always avoid getting to highways at night.

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Old 16th June 2011, 11:13   #8463
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Originally Posted by Gooney View Post
A terrible crash happened in the wee hours of Wednesday morning (June 15, ~4 am) at the NH 8 in Gurgaon. Four young kids, in their teens and early tweens went out for a joyride in a Swift Dzire, as the weather turned pleasant in Delhi NCR post rains. They were speeding along the National Highway when they rear-ended a stationary tipper, parked on the fast lane in the highway. Three of them died on the spot and the fourth boy is in a serious condition in the hospital with severe brain injury.

This is such a tragedy and makes me ponder over whose fault is it anyway. The kids were to be blamed as they were speeding. But young people in that age group tend to be rash and it was not that they were speeding in a crowded area but on a national highway where the speed limit is set at 80 kmph.

I see a lot of trucks and lorrys stranded in the NH8. The main reason being that they are old, not well maintained and not road worthy. Added to that there are hoards of shared autos and tractor with trailers on the highway. These slow-moving vehicles should not be on the highway. So many lives have been lost because a broke down lorry is just sitting on the highway.

Should not the authorities be very rigourous in passing the road worthiness test of vehicles that ply on highways? Should not the Corridor Patrol reprimand the shared autos and tractor plying on the highways? I know, its the eternal debate of corruption and the lackadaisical attitude of authoroties. But how many more lives do we lose to come to senses. I am very sad and angry.

Source: TOI
I read about this.
And you know, it totally pissed me off, the way they are passing the blame around.
Yes, it MAY be wrong to have been speeding on the expressway.
I am not entirely sure of the limit.
I know the DND has a speed limit of 80, and DG is 100(correct me if i am wrong).
The paper said these guys were doing 100.

Dont know if that qualifies as speeding, who belongs more on the expressway, a moving vehicle, or a heap of junk which breaks down and is left in the middle of the bloody road!
well, middle may have been better, but he left it in the fast lane!!

I just love this concessionnaire!
When they are watering the plants on the median, they do it between 8 in the morning, till 12 noon.
in peak hours!!
when they sweep the extreme lanes where all the dust collects, they close off the entire left lane for 1-2 kms at a strecth.
in what hours?
0800-1200!!
We know they have more than enough capability to cordon off a supposed hazard on the expressway, then why couldnt they have done it for the truck?
here's why: take a look at the time of the accident..."raat ko duty nahi thi"....

@csentil: They were all about a couple of years out of their teens.
One of them recently got a bike as a birthday gift from his folks.I am assuming that action, and their ages to imply that they had licenses.

About the tractors and bullock carts, there are a lot of entries and exits on the expressway which ARE utilized by them.They get on the expressway, and allow to get off without paying the toll.
Additionally, there is a service lane(2 cars, oneway) running along the ENTIRE length of the expressway.
Using these roads, AS WELL as the expressway, without needing to pay the toll is ,granted, a right for these tractors.
except for a couple o' things....these tractors and trailers become taxis as well, lucratively so.
they will not go from their village to the town.they will stop at umpteen spots on the extreme left, pick up people/drop-off people, and then move as per whim through all the lanes to get to the "fast" lane, and drive at 40kmph.

Last edited by mayankk : 16th June 2011 at 11:34. Reason: staggered spell check inprogress for 30 minutes...:)
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Old 16th June 2011, 11:14   #8464
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@Gooney: Teens? Did they have a valid license? What if they had hit someone standing on the roadside. Can we condone what they did because, Oh! they are teenagers and they tend to be rash.

So how do villagers who live near the NH commute to the towns? Are there alternate roads available? I come from a village, and how do you think we can get our produce to the godowns in the main town? The only possible way is the road, right.. and if the only road is a NH what do I do? Hire a lorry? Sorry we can't afford to hire one and it won't even get to our fields. Earlier we used to use bullock carts, but now we use tractors. Give us a good alternative road and most of us are happy to use it. We don't want to use toll roads for 5 kms and pay exorbitant rates.

People and villages who have lived across the road for many many years are now told to drive 3 kms to take a U-turn to just get across the road. Because the highway plows right through the village!

Thankfully some of the new highways either avoid towns totally or have a flyover. Still the issue of alternate roads is not solved.

Totally agree on vehicle inspections and road worthiness. That is a problem that needs tackling as much as letting kids drive cars.
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Old 16th June 2011, 11:35   #8465
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Originally Posted by csentil View Post

People and villages who have lived across the road for many many years are now told to drive 3 kms to take a U-turn to just get across the road. Because the highway plows right through the village!

Thankfully some of the new highways either avoid towns totally or have a flyover. Still the issue of alternate roads is not solved.

Totally agree on vehicle inspections and road worthiness. That is a problem that needs tackling as much as letting kids drive cars.
+1, on this! Building road has become absurd! Best example is NH17. Between Kundapur & Udupi now road is made 4 lay highway with service road! There aren't single flyovers planned in entire stretch! NH17 is only road for most of the small towns and village in this part of the town! By design this 4 lane is disaster. The road height has been increased to 5' to 6' ft in many cases. Some of the perpendicular road connectivity is a disaster! Now what will the do to roads connecting to the highway?

The entire stretch has at least a village in 1 km distance. This means at every 1 km you have bus stop! People leave in either side of this highway! I can't see how without underpasses, people will cross the road to catch the bus on other side. We will hear lots of accidents once this road becomes fully operational. This part of the villages has many aged people! Many of them now also use cycle to commute! Don't tell me these aged people to travel 2 more km just to cross the road because some idiot forgot to put underpass by design! You can guarantee expect these guys crossing the road! The way I see is this will indirectly becomes, putting up many speed breakers , temporary break all along the highway in future.

Most of this expressways built in assurance to villagers that they can utilize & hence their purpose also served. The PPP model helps in rich getting advantage by investing in roads, and bribing official about not designing the highways as per law!
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Old 16th June 2011, 11:36   #8466
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Saw this on bombay-pune expressway
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Old 16th June 2011, 11:38   #8467
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Originally Posted by Gooney View Post
A terrible crash happened in the wee hours of Wednesday morning (June 15, ~4 am) at the NH 8 in Gurgaon. Four young kids, in their teens and early tweens went out for a joyride in a Swift Dzire, as the weather turned pleasant in Delhi NCR post rains. They were speeding along the National Highway when they rear-ended a stationary tipper, parked on the fast lane in the highway. Three of them died on the spot and the fourth boy is in a serious condition in the hospital with severe brain injury.

This is such a tragedy and makes me ponder over whose fault is it anyway. The kids were to be blamed as they were speeding. But young people in that age group tend to be rash and it was not that they were speeding in a crowded area but on a national highway where the speed limit is set at 80 kmph.

I see a lot of trucks and lorrys stranded in the NH8. The main reason being that they are old, not well maintained and not road worthy. Added to that there are hoards of shared autos and tractor with trailers on the highway. These slow-moving vehicles should not be on the highway. So many lives have been lost because a broke down lorry is just sitting on the highway.

Should not the authorities be very rigourous in passing the road worthiness test of vehicles that ply on highways? Should not the Corridor Patrol reprimand the shared autos and tractor plying on the highways? I know, its the eternal debate of corruption and the lackadaisical attitude of authoroties. But how many more lives do we lose to come to senses. I am very sad and angry.

Source: TOI

It is a fault of both the kids and the the guy who left the tipper in the middle - latter being a bigger culprit as even at 80kmph the accident probably would have been hard to avoid (thoughloss of life would probably have been avoided)

It is not merely a matter of road worthiness - the drivers have to be educated first and trained (and tested) properly.

Privatisation can play a big role here if some big players get into it (not the two-bit neighbourhood driving schools) on a large scale. If the testing can be outsourced to somebody like Reliance with mandatory exams to be passed then the CV drivers' quality can be improved dramatically.
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Old 16th June 2011, 11:48   #8468
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csentil View Post
@Gooney: Teens? Did they have a valid license? What if they had hit someone standing on the roadside. Can we condone what they did because, Oh! they are teenagers and they tend to be rash.

So how do villagers who live near the NH commute to the towns? Are there alternate roads available? I come from a village, and how do you think we can get our produce to the godowns in the main town? The only possible way is the road, right.. and if the only road is a NH what do I do? Hire a lorry? Sorry we can't afford to hire one and it won't even get to our fields. Earlier we used to use bullock carts, but now we use tractors. Give us a good alternative road and most of us are happy to use it. We don't want to use toll roads for 5 kms and pay exorbitant rates.

People and villages who have lived across the road for many many years are now told to drive 3 kms to take a U-turn to just get across the road. Because the highway plows right through the village!

Thankfully some of the new highways either avoid towns totally or have a flyover. Still the issue of alternate roads is not solved.

Totally agree on vehicle inspections and road worthiness. That is a problem that needs tackling as much as letting kids drive cars.
@csentil: As Mayank mentioned, the boys were older than 18, so were legally eligible to drive. They were driving on an Expressway, please note that. And if they did hit someone (I pressume you meant someone on foot) it is the pedestrians fault, legally. You cannot just walk about in an expressway. I am not encouraging rash driving, but you have to understand that they were driving fast in an expressway, which is meant to act as the fastest option for road travel. The entire stretch of NH8 that runs through Gurgaon has broad service lanes, connecting all villages in the vicinity. It is a different thing that tractors and other slow movers avoid the service lanes because they are crowded.

"People and villages who have lived across the road for many many years are now told to drive 3 kms to take a U-turn to just get across the road." This statement of yours has really let me down. Yes you HAVE to drive 3 kilometers extra to get to the other side of the Highway. Your life is valuable and you cannot just toss it away because you are not happy with a National Highway running though your quaint little town / village, and you would rather go about doing things the same way before the highway was there. Such sentiments cause accidents in highways. Respect the highway as a person who uses it daily, because an one time traveller doing legitimate 80 or 100 kmph on it legally does not need to.

I have driven from Bangalore to Mysore and that State Highway is dotted with towns on either sides without service lanes. In such cases, the legal speed limits are brought down so as not to throw the normal routine of residents out of gear.

Anyway, please do not take offence as I am merely trying to elaborate the fact that, though we may dislike it, but we have to respect traffic rules, especially when we use highways / expressways daily in our lives. It is for our own safety.
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Old 16th June 2011, 11:54   #8469
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CSentil,

I think you're talking of your context, not the accident. Please keep things on the topic. Can we get back to gurgaon NH8 and not your village?

a. There's only one guy whose mentioned - he was 19 or so, BBA 2nd year. The visa consultant would've been atleast 18? The DU student would've been 18?Legal enough to drive. Can we ALL cut the crap on this irresponsible teenage drivers' angle till we have specific information? Stop assuming that the 19 year old was going to plow into villagers till you knew that individual or you know the exact spot where that accident occured. I can tell you that in my 3 years driving daily on that road, there is no villager on that flyover any time of day or night.

b. Its quite clear that the dumper was in the rightmost lane and had no freaking business being there. The whole problem with this expressway is that in India you can construct a 2000cr road but not administer it. There is zero control on vehicles - even the stupid RJ02 boleros crawling at 40kph in rush hour (Disciplining lane hogs/Sunday drivers?).The day we start putting cameras like western economies and start fining the stupid truckers heavily is the day this nonsense finishes.

PS: Your issue is absolutely right but is NOT what is being discussed.
PPS: Even in Delhi we need to sometimes drive 3-4km to take a U turn. I take a 25 min detour everytime I drop my wife to her office (250m crowfly distance only). Kindly remember that urban road infrastructure is as painful for everyone as it gives business/transportation opportunities. Ask the urban folk who have to walk 1.5-2km to cross a highway. Ask the villagers living miles away from a highway. Its a gray area. NOT black.

Quote:
Originally Posted by csentil View Post
@Gooney: Teens? Did they have a valid license? What if they had hit someone standing on the roadside. Can we condone what they did because, Oh! they are teenagers and they tend to be rash.

So how do villagers who live near the NH commute to the towns? Are there alternate roads available? I come from a village, and how do you think we can get our produce to the godowns in the main town? The only possible way is the road, right.. and if the only road is a NH what do I do? Hire a lorry? Sorry we can't afford to hire one and it won't even get to our fields. Earlier we used to use bullock carts, but now we use tractors. Give us a good alternative road and most of us are happy to use it. We don't want to use toll roads for 5 kms and pay exorbitant rates.

People and villages who have lived across the road for many many years are now told to drive 3 kms to take a U-turn to just get across the road. Because the highway plows right through the village!

Thankfully some of the new highways either avoid towns totally or have a flyover. Still the issue of alternate roads is not solved.

Totally agree on vehicle inspections and road worthiness. That is a problem that needs tackling as much as letting kids drive cars.
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Old 16th June 2011, 12:16   #8470
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Until and unless
1)our Great Indian Driving Licensing System is completely overhauled and stringent driving test conditions are introduced with a refresher test every 5 years - written, verbal and practical. (like UK)
2) Our RTO officials become genuinely corruption free and refuse to issue driving licenses for applicants failing the tests
3) The Great Indian Pedestrian stops thinking that the middle of the road is an extension of his balcony for a leisurely stroll
4) Traffic police haul up errant drivers, auto's, bikers as well as "neta's and their driver's" in their gargantuan windows-blacked-out-four-lane-chopping-sirens-screaming-SUV's" for violating every civic as well as traffic rules
5) Speed breakers are not arbitrarily built anywhere and everywhere people feel like
6) heavy spot fines are collected from traffic rule violators and depending on the severity of the violation the driving license penalty points are entered / license revoked / suspended

..till then we will be witnesses to these ghastly accidents taking away precious lives from families
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Old 16th June 2011, 12:27   #8471
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@Gooney: Thanks for the clarification. Mayank's message and my message got posted at almost the same time. So I didn't get to read it while posting.

Anyways, here we are discussing about things that are, when unfortunately 3 people have passed away. :(

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Old 16th June 2011, 12:30   #8472
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Originally Posted by Gooney View Post
I see a lot of trucks and lorrys stranded in the NH8. The main reason being that they are old, not well maintained and not road worthy. Added to that there are hoards of shared autos and tractor with trailers on the highway. These slow-moving vehicles should not be on the highway. So many lives have been lost because a broke down lorry is just sitting on the highway.

Should not the authorities be very rigourous in passing the road worthiness test of vehicles that ply on highways? Should not the Corridor Patrol reprimand the shared autos and tractor plying on the highways? I know, its the eternal debate of corruption and the lackadaisical attitude of authoroties. But how many more lives do we lose to come to senses. I am very sad and angry.
Absolutely, 100% agree and could not have expressed it better myself. This is not restricted to NH8- you should see the 30 year old monsters struggling to climb Lonavala ghat on the Mum-Pune expressway, mostly in the rightmost lane. No rear lights or reflectors of any sort and they break down in the worst possible places. Even once broken down they stick a leafy branch or keep a couple of stones as a warning to other motorists. It's ludicrous!

And when you see the news reports, most of these accidents are put down to "overspeeding". Agreed that the guys were driving fast, but how on earth can any reasonable administration condone the stupidity of truck fleet owners who allow such monstrosities to be driven on our roads?

Like other countries, India needs a mandatory roadworthiness check for ALL commercial vehicles every year. Get those big lumering monsters of death off the roads! 3 innocent kids are dead, and another at death's door because some ill-maintained piece of crap broke down in the fast lane of a national highway. Let's not reduce this to "overspeeding"- that will just mean more apathy and more deaths.
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Old 16th June 2011, 12:45   #8473
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooney View Post
A terrible crash happened in the wee hours of Wednesday morning (June 15, ~4 am) at the NH 8 in Gurgaon. Four young kids, in their teens and early tweens went out for a joyride in a Swift Dzire, as the weather turned pleasant in Delhi NCR post rains. They were speeding along the National Highway when they rear-ended a stationary tipper, parked on the fast lane in the highway. Three of them died on the spot and the fourth boy is in a serious condition in the hospital with severe brain injury.

This is such a tragedy and makes me ponder over whose fault is it anyway. The kids were to be blamed as they were speeding. But young people in that age group tend to be rash and it was not that they were speeding in a crowded area but on a national highway where the speed limit is set at 80 kmph.

I see a lot of trucks and lorrys stranded in the NH8. The main reason being that they are old, not well maintained and not road worthy. Added to that there are hoards of shared autos and tractor with trailers on the highway. These slow-moving vehicles should not be on the highway. So many lives have been lost because a broke down lorry is just sitting on the highway.

Should not the authorities be very rigourous in passing the road worthiness test of vehicles that ply on highways? Should not the Corridor Patrol reprimand the shared autos and tractor plying on the highways? I know, its the eternal debate of corruption and the lackadaisical attitude of authoroties. But how many more lives do we lose to come to senses. I am very sad and angry.

Source: TOI
I'm sorry but I'm of a different view here.
A broken down lorry is just one of the causes here, but there can be innumerable of things which may lead to the same fate. A big stone, a perfectly ok vehicle with punctured tyres, fallen cargo, fallen sign board,tree branch,people, animals,walking devotees, processions etc, you name it, you got it.
So should we go about banning all or stopping everything other than fast moving vehicles on the highways?

I believe the youngsters and for that matter everyone, should be cautioned/educated about speeding and its consequences before handing them the keys. And also the DL issuing authority should be overhauled as the root cause of the problem stems from there. But this discussion has been debated to no end.

Forget speed limits, on highways I am scared to even maintain 80 due to these unexpected hindrances.
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Old 16th June 2011, 12:54   #8474
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Yesterday was a very very Bad day for me.
See what my driver have done to my car. :(
The driver was appointed yesterday morning only.
It was happened at KALYANI NAGAR.
Now the CAR is at Hyundai Service center .Minimum of 10k expense.
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Old 16th June 2011, 13:01   #8475
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I'm sorry but I'm of a different view here.
A broken down lorry is just one of the causes here, but there can be innumerable of things which may lead to the same fate. A big stone, a perfectly ok vehicle with punctured tyres, fallen cargo, fallen sign board,tree branch,people, animals,walking devotees, processions etc, you name it, you got it.
So should we go about banning all or stopping everything other than fast moving vehicles on the highways?

I believe the youngsters and for that matter everyone, should be cautioned/educated about speeding and its consequences before handing them the keys. And also the DL issuing authority should be overhauled as the root cause of the problem stems from there. But this discussion has been debated to no end.

Forget speed limits, on highways I am scared to even maintain 80 due to these unexpected hindrances.
Well the point is that if there in any random hindrances, the authorities should be swift enough react in time so that any untoward incident can be avoided. In this case, if the whole expressway was being monitored using camera's the truck could have been removed in time or warnings could have been placed.
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