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Old 16th June 2011, 13:44   #8476
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Originally Posted by racer_m View Post
I'm sorry but I'm of a different view here.
A broken down lorry is just one of the causes here, but there can be innumerable of things which may lead to the same fate. A big stone, a perfectly ok vehicle with punctured tyres, fallen cargo, fallen sign board,tree branch,people, animals,walking devotees, processions etc, you name it, you got it.
So should we go about banning all or stopping everything other than fast moving vehicles on the highways?
Fair point. So it may just be an accident and we can leave it at that - an unfortunate coincidence. But on the gurgaon expressway - the trucker has no business to be in the fast lane. There are 4 lanes. At 450am, the trucker should not have been there. Period. When I am on that road on my motorbike - i am on the left of the leftmost lane - whether day/night. Why can't the trucks keep to their lane atleast in the 8 laned urban sections completely beats me.

Of course, that does not ultimately absolve the driver whose lack of concentration/alertness/skills lead to the actual accident.

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Originally Posted by racer_m View Post
I believe the youngsters and for that matter everyone, should be cautioned/educated about speeding and its consequences before handing them the keys. And also the DL issuing authority should be overhauled as the root cause of the problem stems from there. But this discussion has been debated to no end.
If you don't know how the deceased drove, then why do you even mention youngsters? And where does the DL issuing authority have ANY role in this accident? I'm sorry but your post is a general rant than anything to do with the accident reported by Gooney.


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Originally Posted by racer_m View Post
Forget speed limits, on highways I am scared to even maintain 80 due to these unexpected hindrances.
Come to Gurgaon. 80-100 is pretty much commonplace on the gurgaon expressway.
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Old 16th June 2011, 14:04   #8477
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Default re: Pics: Accidents in India

Regarding the NH 8 incident (and in general principal), I very much agree with phamilyman's POV. My 2 cents: As with everything, experience really counts while driving. The thrill of speed should always go hand in hand with a sane mind which knows the limits.

About the broken truck on the expressway, we have to be realistic. Such things are here to stay in our country and I don't expect any changes in near future.

Till a few years back, I used to curse highway drivers who had high beams on. But now I know it's something that is indeed required to illuminate those unexpected obstructions from a distance reasonable enough to take avoiding action.
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Old 16th June 2011, 14:08   #8478
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Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
Fair point. So it may just be an accident and we can leave it at that - an unfortunate coincidence. But on the gurgaon expressway - the trucker has no business to be in the fast lane. There are 4 lanes. At 450am, the trucker should not have been there. Period. When I am on that road on my motorbike - i am on the left of the leftmost lane - whether day/night. Why can't the trucks keep to their lane atleast in the 8 laned urban sections completely beats me.

Of course, that does not ultimately absolve the driver whose lack of concentration/alertness/skills lead to the actual accident.


If you don't know how the deceased drove, then why do you even mention youngsters? And where does the DL issuing authority have ANY role in this accident? I'm sorry but your post is a general rant than anything to do with the accident reported by Gooney.



Come to Gurgaon. 80-100 is pretty much commonplace on the gurgaon expressway.
Please have a look at the definition of a youngster here before jumping on me.

youngster [ˈjʌŋstə] noun
1. (Sociology) a young person; child or youth
Collins English Dictionary Complete and Unabridged HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003

Well yes I have given a general rant and it is directed to not only this particular accident but the whole discussion going on till now.
What I wanted to highlight is even though we may have modern infrastructure, policies, the things are still mismanaged with no accountability.
Until those things are sorted out I recommend we drive defensibly.

Tell me if issuing licenses is done in the manner they should be, then dont you think we would have lesser morons and unintended/intended hazards on the road wrt wrong parkings, wrong lane driving, signaling, etc.
So many accidents happen due to these oversights.

Why last evening itself I was a witness to a live accident. there is a left turn adjacent to a flyover(Sarjapur junction) to move into the service lane, its not really a free left but you can cross once traffic is clear. A wagon R was trying to do the same and had slowed/stopped there, however a car behind it may have thought it would cross soon and end result was a mass of banged up bumpers. It pays to be alert and not just speed up cause the speed limit says so. Peace.
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Old 16th June 2011, 14:08   #8479
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Quote:
Originally Posted by racer_m View Post
I'm sorry but I'm of a different view here.
A broken down lorry is just one of the causes here, but there can be innumerable of things which may lead to the same fate. A big stone, a perfectly ok vehicle with punctured tyres, fallen cargo, fallen sign board,tree branch,people, animals,walking devotees, processions etc, you name it, you got it.
So should we go about banning all or stopping everything other than fast moving vehicles on the highways?

Forget speed limits, on highways I am scared to even maintain 80 due to these unexpected hindrances.
racer_m I can perfectly understand your take on certain inevitabilities that cannot be avoided on highways, and which could potentially lead to accidents. But, given the nature of highway traffic, actions on removing such eventualities and / or putting up effective warnings / barricades promptly irrespective of the hour (day or night) is of utmost importance and cannot / should not be taken lightly. Irresponsibilty on the part of authorities / traffic police cost human lives and at no cost should be brushed aside as inevitable-highway-occurances.

And yes we should ban certain vehicles such as tractors, unfit lorrys, slow-moving vehicles on the highway. In fact, AFAIK, it is illegal to ply tractors on roads and highways. Also, in our country we only focus on the upper speed limits, what about the minimum speed limits that needs to be maintained in the highways and expressways. Flaunting this particular rule leads to as many fatalities if not more.

We pay with our tax money to maintain a dedicated staff whose sole duty is to look after such eventualities on highways. And this is a job that cannot be taken lightly. Prompt action every time a truck breaks down in the middle of the road, efficient traffic police that ensures trucks/ lorries stick to their lanes can save lives. This is what am trying to say, some accidents are avoidable.

As far as driver education goes, if it were so easy, we would not be on the top of the global list of pedestrian fatalities.

Last edited by Gooney : 16th June 2011 at 14:11. Reason: Spelling
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Old 16th June 2011, 14:57   #8480
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Originally Posted by vina View Post
It is a fault of both the kids and the the guy who left the tipper in the middle - latter being a bigger culprit as even at 80kmph the accident probably would have been hard to avoid (thoughloss of life would probably have been avoided)
No, no, no! When people learn to drive as if there might be an obstruction in the road then these accidents will stop. My signature says the rest on this.

Quote:
It is not merely a matter of road worthiness - the drivers have to be educated first and trained (and tested) properly.
Quite.


And all privatisation ever did was put money in private pockets.
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Old 16th June 2011, 15:28   #8481
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Default re: Pics: Accidents in India

Quote:
Originally Posted by racer_m View Post
I'm sorry but I'm of a different view here.
A broken down lorry is just one of the causes here, but there can be innumerable of things which may lead to the same fate. A big stone, a perfectly ok vehicle with punctured tyres, fallen cargo, fallen sign board,tree branch,people, animals,walking devotees, processions etc, you name it, you got it.
So should we go about banning all or stopping everything other than fast moving vehicles on the highways?


Forget speed limits, on highways I am scared to even maintain 80 due to these unexpected hindrances.
Hi
Always it is like the train track example if there are 2 tracks and children are playing on them whilst majority are playing on the used and regular track and a lone child is happy on the unused track and a train is approaching will you allow the train to go on the used track or alter it's course to the unused track. Many people will take the second option but then for the fault of so many people why should a life be compromised for doing the right thing.
Expressways are meant to help to reach faster with lesser hinderance so it is time that authorities wake up and get their act together. Whenever the road worthiness is to done it is to be done for the same reason and not allow a Hyder Ali time truck to trundle down an expressway.
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Old 16th June 2011, 15:38   #8482
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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
And all privatisation ever did was put money in private pockets.
Fail.

Even under the government, the bureaucrats, the politicos and their cronies/financiers/associated businessmen make money.

Private developer atleast brings a semblance of order.

case in point: Gurgaon roads.

every year they are decimated by the 1st monsoon. crores and crores are spent.

while the privatized gurgaon expressway keeps running without a single pothole. I don't give a damn about the pocket. Paying tax is my destiny as a law abiding citizen. As is watching it get wasted.

Private developers atleast give a decent service in return.
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Old 16th June 2011, 15:55   #8483
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Originally Posted by Gooney View Post
A terrible crash happened in the wee hours of Wednesday morning (June 15, ~4 am) at the NH 8 in Gurgaon. Four young kids, in their teens and early tweens went out for a joyride in a Swift Dzire, as the weather turned pleasant in Delhi NCR post rains. They were speeding along the National Highway when they rear-ended a stationary tipper, parked on the fast lane in the highway. Three of them died on the spot and the fourth boy is in a serious condition in the hospital with severe brain injury.

This is such a tragedy and makes me ponder over whose fault is it anyway. The kids were to be blamed as they were speeding. But young people in that age group tend to be rash and it was not that they were speeding in a crowded area but on a national highway where the speed limit is set at 80 kmph.

I see a lot of trucks and lorrys stranded in the NH8. The main reason being that they are old, not well maintained and not road worthy. Added to that there are hoards of shared autos and tractor with trailers on the highway. These slow-moving vehicles should not be on the highway. So many lives have been lost because a broke down lorry is just sitting on the highway.

Should not the authorities be very rigourous in passing the road worthiness test of vehicles that ply on highways? Should not the Corridor Patrol reprimand the shared autos and tractor plying on the highways? I know, its the eternal debate of corruption and the lackadaisical attitude of authoroties. But how many more lives do we lose to come to senses. I am very sad and angry.

Source: TOI
Much has already been discussed about this accident here. Let's see facts here -
- Stationary truck on the right lane.
- 3 dead & 1 critically injured.

Now, yes, the truck shouldn't have been there (on the right lane). But how many of us can actually cruise at 80kmph even on NH8 without having to change lanes (left or right) 'cause some moron is talking on his/her cellphone driving "cautiously" (read slowly at 50kmph). This is the situation here in India and we should be driving accordingly.

One look at the picture and one can deduce they weren't going slow. Considering the time at which this happened, and the age of the occupants, I wouldn't be surprised if there's some alcohol involved there. Plus there are many trucks on the highway at that hour. Could have very easily been a case of careless zigzag driving to overtake the several trucks gone wrong.
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Old 16th June 2011, 17:47   #8484
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Originally Posted by KALINGA View Post
Yesterday was a very very Bad day for me.
See what my driver have done to my car. :(
The driver was appointed yesterday morning only.
It was happened at KALYANI NAGAR.
Now the CAR is at Hyundai Service center .Minimum of 10k expense.
Sorry to see the damage. But was it your drivers fault? What exactly happened?
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Old 16th June 2011, 17:51   #8485
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Originally Posted by amitwlele View Post
Sorry to see the damage. But was it your drivers fault? What exactly happened?
Yes ..It was my Driver's fault. The accident was with a ARMY BUS.
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Old 16th June 2011, 19:46   #8486
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Originally Posted by lordofgondor View Post
Till a few years back, I used to curse highway drivers who had high beams on. But now I know it's something that is indeed required to illuminate those unexpected obstructions from a distance reasonable enough to take avoiding action.
Driving at a reasonable speed so that you can react to any such obstruction is another method to avoid accidents....a.k.a defensive driving.

Of course, one may not be able to drive all along with the low beam. I flip up the high beam occasionally to do a quick inspection. But driving in full time high beam is a CRIME.

I've seen this unhealthy trend of fixing heavily tinted front windshield, then compensate for it with HIDs or XENONS or other blinding lights. What are they thinking? Beats me.

Also, we can never say the truck shouldn't have been there. Tomorrow it might be your (in general...not you @lordofgondor) BMW X5 which breaks down in the middle of the night in the right most lane on a fast right turn on the expressway. Anything can happen. Be prepared is the mantra.

-- Torqy

Last edited by Torqy : 16th June 2011 at 19:52.
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Old 17th June 2011, 00:26   #8487
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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
No, no, no! When people learn to drive as if there might be an obstruction in the road then these accidents will stop. My signature says the rest on this.

Quite.


And all privatisation ever did was put money in private pockets.

I'm not defending the boys - but they have already paid the highest price they could for whatever their role was in the accident. Their families will also mourn it for decades to come.

Also even people who are careful get into accidents due to others' stupidity quite often. Several years ago I was going home from Noida to Ghaziabad on NH-24 around 7pm, I was driving at roughly 55kmph on my sister's Kinetic Honda. To be safe I was driving behind a zen (following the 2 second rule by making it a 3-4 second rule - if somebody wants to pass me I let them pass and then apply the same rule behind them) so that the zen was effectively my pilot car. I carefully looked at its headlights looking for not only braking but also vibrations (to look for bad road ahead). Nobody on either side, and if anybody tried to tailgate I would just slow down enough that they would be forced to pass.

At one place one the road a cycle-rickshaw guy pulled into my way as soon as the zen passed him - I saw him pulling in blasted my horn but at 30m there was nothing I could do except hit him and somersault - landed on my head and woke up a few minutes later on the side of the road. My helmet saved me (scooter was almost totalled and the rick broke in two) - quite a few scratches but I was at work within a couple of days. Since I avoided people tailgating me - nobody ran over me even accidentally.

My vigilence and purposeful safe driving ensured that I survived with hardly any injuries (and none serious enough to merit even a bandage) - but it was still that rick-pullers fault. And to this day after analysing the scene multiple times I can not figure out what I could have done to prevent this accident (I was not even driving on one side - I was driving in the middle of the lane)
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Old 17th June 2011, 01:42   #8488
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Originally Posted by vina View Post
To be safe I was driving behind a zen (following the 2 second rule by making it a 3-4 second rule - if somebody wants to pass me I let them pass and then apply the same rule behind them)
Good to see that you use the time lag method, however the minimum safe time lag recommended for four wheelers the World over is 3 seconds. That extra 1 second is vital too. Anything more than that is only better and welcome, which is the case for two wheelers. The formula increases the value exponentially, do not remember the exact time lag value for two wheelers though.

Last edited by khoj : 17th June 2011 at 01:44.
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Old 17th June 2011, 01:52   #8489
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Default re: Pics: Accidents in India

One of my dad's best: 50% of all accidents are the other person's fault.

Which is why it is not enough to drive carefully: we have to drive defensively.

And even that, sometimes, is not enough.
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Old 17th June 2011, 08:09   #8490
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Default re: Pics: Accidents in India

Its sad. Just Sad.

May their Soul's RIP and give courage for their parents to handle this very Taxing and Heart Ripping Situation.

Regarding The accident.

Its not always the Teens fault, it take Two to Tango.. In this case its them driving over their Abilities (Speed depends on ability to react and experience on situations) & The wrongly Parked Tripper.

Now there is nothing we can do for the teen who lost their Lifes.

Its me thinking our Loud:- What we can do is as BHPian?
1) Organise Road Awareness events in our respective areas / Colleges / Universities.
2) Talk to RTO's and get involved in the licensing, to ensure Teens don't get licensing easily until and unless they understand how to respect power.
3) Get involved with RTO department which issues Road Worthiness certificate, and if possible change the policies.
4) Report or ensure we take it up on ourself to push or move these stuck old vehicles to safety.

I know there is a limitation to what we can do. But even if we all members together do one activity in a month.. I think we can save one life each for sure.
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