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Old 1st March 2012, 00:03   #10501
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Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
My thoughts exactly!

Obviously the City moved forward and hit something, after it was rear ended. For all we know, that could have been the reason why the lives were lost.
City moved forward? But look at the front of City in pic. It looks intact. I saw a Lancer at local Mitsu dealer which was rear-ended by a speeding truck. It didn't buckle even one third of what we see here. Now I know Lancer has a solid build unlike City but, to me, City looks too flimsily built now. Let us please keep our brand loyalties at bay and accept shortcomings where they really exist. After all it is question of life and death. I am a big admirer of Honda cars, too, but this? And it is hit by a Dzire not a truck. Not even by an SUV.
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Old 1st March 2012, 00:13   #10502
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Default re: Pics: Accidents in India

^^ The City does look quite battered. But I'm not going to say it's a Honda and that's why the build-quality is flimsy. I believe the City is not the strongest car out there, but it certainly isn't flimsy.

I don't know what people expect when a car gets rear ended at seriously high speeds.

Also, I'd like to add that a car that might look like it has taken the impact well (judging by the lack of serious damage) might have actually transferred the impact into the interior and onto the passengers. Cars these days have been designed and built in such a way that the body taken the maximum hit while it keeps the passenger-cabin relatively intact. But that would not apply here, considering that lives were lost.

A car like a Vento/Rapid would have probably taken the impact better - owing to German traits, but I'm not sure if the life would have been saved either way.
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Old 1st March 2012, 01:33   #10503
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Default re: Pics: Accidents in India

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City moved forward? But look at the front of City in pic. It looks intact. I saw a Lancer at local Mitsu dealer which was rear-ended by a speeding truck. It didn't buckle even one third of what we see here. Now I know Lancer has a solid build unlike City but, to me, City looks too flimsily built now. Let us please keep our brand loyalties at bay and accept shortcomings where they really exist. After all it is question of life and death. I am a big admirer of Honda cars, too, but this? And it is hit by a Dzire not a truck. Not even by an SUV.
You have to understand a speeding truck impact would not be as strong as any car rear ending another when the estimated speed of the car in the rear is 150kmph.
If my understanding is correct than due to engine placement, the front of a car tends to be stronger than the rear, thus the dzire's condition is better.

I own a city and a civic and I feel the that city's rear "seems" stronger than civic.
But civic does have a huge metal bar behind the rear seat, and I am not sure the city has it.
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Old 1st March 2012, 05:38   #10504
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Default re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by mjumrani View Post
You have to understand a speeding truck impact would not be as strong as any car rear ending another when the estimated speed of the car in the rear is 150kmph.
If my understanding is correct than due to engine placement, the front of a car tends to be stronger than the rear, thus the dzire's condition is better.

I own a city and a civic and I feel the that city's rear "seems" stronger than civic.
But civic does have a huge metal bar behind the rear seat, and I am not sure the city has it.
You can't be more wrong. The engine mounts are designed is such a way that the engine literally 'falls down' in case of a front impact so that it doesn't intrude into the cabin. This along with the fact that the front is designed to crumple in case of a frontal impact makes it considerably less stronger when compared to rear.
Case in point: Have you seen accidents where someone rear ends a car and end up having more damage than the car in front.
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Old 1st March 2012, 06:53   #10505
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Default re: Pics: Accidents in India

I had read that the City had hit the divider after being rear ended. Could that have led to the city being more "crushed" than one would expect?

@Suhaas - fully agree on the city being equally to blame!
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Old 1st March 2012, 07:20   #10506
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Default re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
No amount of beefing-up would help a car retain its body-parts if it has been rear-ended by another car that was probably doing 3-digit speeds. Besides, one must take into account the recoil/reaction of the accident.
Not really true. Here in Singapore, 99% of the roads will not have a car coming in the opposite direction, and when accidents happen (rarely), those are due to rear-ending. I have seen a few of those on the expressways, and these normally happen at 3-digit speeds. Never seen a car in such crushed up state.

I always felt that the City’s rear carry less weight and the boot lid feels quite thin and hollow. I have seen a Jazz after a high speed crash (rear-ended by a Merc Taxi), and it had absorbed the impact quite well. But the picture of the City in this case is extremely disturbing.

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Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
A car like a Vento/Rapid would have probably taken the impact better - owing to German traits, but I'm not sure if the life would have been saved either way.
Probably yes, but then if the occupants were not wearing seat belts, the end result would have been the same.
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Old 1st March 2012, 08:55   #10507
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Default re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
I had read that the City had hit the divider after being rear ended. Could that have led to the city being more "crushed" than one would expect?
This is precisely the same question I've asked too.

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Originally Posted by vb-san View Post
Not really true. Here in Singapore, 99% of the roads will not have a car coming in the opposite direction, and when accidents happen (rarely), those are due to rear-ending. I have seen a few of those on the expressways, and these normally happen at 3-digit speeds. Never seen a car in such crushed up state.

I always felt that the City’s rear carry less weight and the boot lid feels quite thin and hollow. I have seen a Jazz after a high speed crash (rear-ended by a Merc Taxi), and it had absorbed the impact quite well. But the picture of the City in this case is extremely disturbing.
The City is a car that's been made for developing markets. It is based on the Jazz platform. But the Jazz is sold in several other continents too. While the Jazz may be a tried and tested (for safety) product since it's sold in Europe, the City probably isn't. Could this be the reason for that disturbingly shoddy quality?
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Old 1st March 2012, 09:39   #10508
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Default re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by DevilsCry View Post
About City and Dzire accident-
City and Brio are the only two Honda's selling in India which doesn't have any EuroNCAP or ANCAP safety rating.
Honda City has been tested for crash worthiness by ANCAP. It got a 4 star rating out of possible 5. The car which they tested also had side and head airbags which is absent in the Indian model.

Honda safety | City crash test - ANCAP

They tested crash worthiness for the following scenarios.
1. Frontal offset test
2. Side impact test
3. Pedestrian test
4. Pole test

There is no test for rear end collision. So as some one already pointed out, it is quite possible for a car maker to make their car 'safe' with a weaker rear end.

Having said that, there are a few car makers which gives crash worthiness as a top priority like Volvo,SAAB(just see the latest Topgear S18E5) and many more.

My dad drives a City, and to be honest I was really shocked when I first saw the picture of the ill fated City. But I am drawing any conclusion, as I am not aware what has happened exactly.

Last edited by ecenandu : 1st March 2012 at 09:45.
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Old 1st March 2012, 09:46   #10509
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Default re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
I had read that the City had hit the divider after being rear ended. Could that have led to the city being more "crushed" than one would expect?
Btw, not sure if you saw this but, in continuation of our earlier conversation on this thread - I saw the obituary in TOI yesterday & the lady in question is 50 years old. No way she was seven months pregnant - I can't figure why some newspapers add this kind of senseless, inaccurate stuff to accident reports
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Old 1st March 2012, 09:58   #10510
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Default re: Pics: Accidents in India

City/Dzire accident:

This is really gruesome.
Here is the pic of both Dzire and City.

Fardeen Khan's relative killed in accident

Some reports says that city entered Dzire's path and when Dzire was trying to change the lane City too changed the lane and kind of blocked the Dzire's path again. Having said this, doing 3 digits within city limit is a murderous act. However I don't think that Dzire was @150.

Also, it doesn't look like that we have a conclusive report on this accident yet.
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Old 1st March 2012, 10:12   #10511
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Default re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by ecenandu View Post
Honda City has been tested for crash worthiness by ANCAP.
I'm very sorry for failing to spot ANCAP rating for Honda City. I just browsed through EuroNCAP to see if they also honor rear impact and I observed the following-

There are five levels of safety rating while testing an impact-
1. Good
2. Adequate
3. Marginal
4. Weak
5. Poor

They give out five star rating even to those cars with "marginal" rear impact safety. This is shocking to know. I browsed through many cars and found that most new BMW's come with "marginal" rear impact safety and yet are rated same 5 stars as Volvo's which come with "good" rear impact safety.

After Honda City, now EuroNCAP is also shocking me with their sloppy rating. Even a BMW passenger could die on being hit by a Dzire from behind!

Edit: Adding pic of accident from the link in arun_josie's post-

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Last edited by DevilsCry : 1st March 2012 at 10:17. Reason: Inserting pic
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Old 1st March 2012, 10:22   #10512
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Pic Source: Fardeen Khan's relative killed in accident

Is that the airbag I see on City? Do airbags get activated in case of rear-endings too?

I think Dzire's driver wasn't belted, the front impact on the dzire doesn't look fatal if the driver/passenger were belted.

Dzire doing triple digit speeds and such frontal damage still seems believable but combine it with the same car rear-ending a City and shrinking it to half its length is kind of unbelievable.
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Old 1st March 2012, 10:36   #10513
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Default re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by fine69 View Post
Attachment 895403
Pic Source: Fardeen Khan's relative killed in accident

Is that the airbag I see on City? Do airbags get activated in case of rear-endings too?
I wonder if a front view of the City would probably show some damage as well.....that would have activated the Airbag.

Last edited by suman : 1st March 2012 at 10:39.
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Old 1st March 2012, 10:37   #10514
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Default re: Pics: Accidents in India

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They give out five star rating even to those cars with "marginal" rear impact safety. This is shocking to know
There is a designated speed at which these tests are conducted. Anything in the triple digit is not such a speed. One has to be extremely lucky to get out alive in such crashes

Parameters like seat belts in front and back, air bags and speed are considered before rating the vehicle.

At high speeds we are just pushing the limits or trying to test the limits and more often we fail.
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Old 1st March 2012, 11:02   #10515
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This kid I know passed away last night. R.I.P

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Mangalore: Bike-Bus Accident Near Mulky - Two Students Killed


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