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Old 2nd March 2012, 23:40   #10546
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Originally Posted by dockap View Post
Even though i love driving around in a 2 wheeler and find it very practical to use inside city with the advantage of easy parking these buses scare the daylights out of me and i don't feel safe even in a car when you hear them honking behind you impatiently to overtake from nonexistent gaps.
Many of the roads in and around Mangalore are so bad (bumpy and bouncy) the heavy vehicles are able to intimidate smaller vehicles. Roads needs to drastically improve. Was in Mangalore last week.

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Old 3rd March 2012, 02:08   #10547
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OT: See this video. It shows a rear end collision which I think is similar to what has happened between the Swift dzire and Honda City.



There has been umpteen number of discussion on the safety of Honda city, having gone through many of those I have to admit, in small crashes the Honda city does take a heavy beating compared to other cars in the segment.



^^You can see the passenger cabin area is intact.



In the above video the Scorpio pik-up passanger cabin has got some damage.

PS: I am not saying Honda city is safer than Scorpio. In small speed crashes a sturdy car will suffer lesser damage and Honda city is not a sturdy car.

I would like to narrate a small accident which happend 2 years ago. I was driving my aunt's Linea towards Eranakulam and near Aluva bridge signal, I braked immediately(from 20 Kmph) when the light turned red. I didn't look behind(my fault) and a Scorpio rear ended. All we felt inside was a small thud. The bumper of the Linea had caved in(fist size), but there was absolutely no damage to the Scorpio not even a scratch.

Does having a sturdy car gives you a warrant to go fast. By fast I mean above 120Kmph. IMHO no matter how sturdy your car is, if you have accidents at those speeds results will be the same. The above crash test videos shows what happens at a relatively slow speed - 64 Kmph. One can imagine what will happen if speed increases.

In movies, time does slow down during a crash scene and the hero will have amble amount of time to do things right. And let me tell you, in real life you will have very little time to react. One day I was driving towards Pondicherry from Chennai along with my friends in my Chevy Spark. I knew the little car is not so good on the highways and hence I consciously made an effort to stick to 80 Kmph. Few months back I saw an accident on the very same stretch in this thread and thought about it when we left Chennai but never imagined I will end up here.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/street...ml#post2444542

Being a petrol head, while driving I always try to identify which car is coming towards me.So this time I identified a Tata Indica in the opposite lane, the moment I tried take my eyes off, the car swered towards me. I paniked,then eased off the throttle, had a look towards left side and turned my car towards left. I didn't move enough and Indica did hit my car.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/street...ml#post2549644

One thing what saved me here was, what ever little time(just before accident) I had. If I were in my Honda City I would have been easily doing above hundred, which further reduces the time to do the counter measures to avoid the accident. So the point is, no matter how sturdy your car is, doing considerable speeds does make you more vulnerable of having an accident.

People with better driving skills can react faster in those situations, but do you want to take a chances when odds are staked against you. Choice is yours. I have read many people boasting of doing 150Kmph, 190Kmph on this forum.

I did find out how much time will one save driving fast. We had done some airport runs early morning from Guruvayoor to Nedumbassery (approx 95 Km). The time which I managed was 1 : 25 min during which I was doing around 80 - 95 Kmph. MID display showed a mileage of 19Kmpl for Honda city. One day since I didn't sleep well, I let my driver to take the wheel and boy he was going fast he was easily doing 120ish wherever possible. I didn't say anything because we started little late. And the time he manged was 1:15 min. If you ask me I will any day prefer leaving 15 - 20 mins earlier than hurrying up in the last moment. I always find relaxing while cruising at 90ish Kmph. Most of the time I will let the fast drivers through, during my drive and in the end, will have a feel good factor in the mind of having done minimum inconvenience to the fellow road users.

So peace of mind and better mileage boy oh boy, its great .

Last edited by ecenandu : 3rd March 2012 at 02:34.
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Old 3rd March 2012, 08:08   #10548
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Default re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by ecenandu View Post
Does having a sturdy car gives you a warrant to go fast. By fast I mean above 120Kmph. IMHO no matter how sturdy your car is, if you have accidents at those speeds results will be the same. The above crash test videos shows what happens at a relatively slow speed - 64 Kmph. One can imagine what will happen if speed increases.
Staying within speed notified limits would always be safe and as speed increases dangers in a collision increases manifold.

I didn't move enough and Indica did hit my car.
You can see many such cars on Kerala roads and these morons never understand.

So the point is, no matter how sturdy your car is, doing considerable speeds does make you more vulnerable of having an accident.
Exactly.

People with better driving skills can react faster in those situations, but do you want to take a chances when odds are staked against you. Choice is yours. I have read many people boasting of doing 150Kmph, 190Kmph on this forum.
Speed thrills but kills too.

in the end, will have a feel good factor in the mind of having done minimum inconvenience to the fellow road users.
How many does that. Even if 50% of those on the road practice this, our roads would be a much safer place.
Tomorrow, March 4, is the National safety Day. Let us on the eve of it take a resolution and pledge to drive safe and to obey traffic rules. Let us all also spread this message.

Last edited by rajeev k : 3rd March 2012 at 08:10.
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Old 3rd March 2012, 11:18   #10549
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Default re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by ecenandu View Post
OT: See this video. It shows a rear end collision which I think is similar to what has happened between the Swift dzire and Honda City.
Great. Agree your views about a sturdy car like the Scorpio. We have ourselves experienced this umpteen times as we have owned Scorpios.

But why not compare the City to a sturdy yet safe car like the XUV5OO or the Aria? How will it fare then?

Or if its unfair, then why not compare the City to Vento or Linea which is sturdy as well as safe...

I searched here & it shows that Honda City has a 4 star crash test rating whereas even a hatch like Punto has a 5 star rating.

Also, please note that we are comparing a 2006 made hatchback (Punto) to a 2009 made sedan (City), still Punto fares better. Aren't sedans believed to be safer, traditionally?

So, I would not say City is all that safe either.
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Old 3rd March 2012, 11:27   #10550
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Default re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
Great. Agree your views about a sturdy car like the Scorpio. We have ourselves experienced this umpteen times as we have owned Scorpios.

But why not compare the City to a sturdy yet safe car like the XUV5OO or the Aria? How will it fare then?

Or if its unfair, then why not compare the City to Vento or Linea which is sturdy as well as safe...

I searched here & it shows that Honda City has a 4 star crash test rating whereas even a hatch like Punto has a 5 star rating.

Also, please note that we are comparing a 2006 made hatchback (Punto) to a 2009 made sedan (City), still Punto fares better. Aren't sedans believed to be safer, traditionally?

So, I would not say City is all that safe either.
Oh no, here we go again, I never stated City is safer than a Scorpio. A sturdy built car will take less beating in small speed crashes. And I did explain it, narrating a small accident I had.I think you misunderstood the point I am trying to convey.

By sturdy car I meant cars like linea, Vento,Scorpio etc. No where I equated a Sturdy car to only Scorpio in my earlier discussion.

Last edited by ecenandu : 3rd March 2012 at 11:49.
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Old 3rd March 2012, 11:38   #10551
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Originally Posted by ecenandu View Post
Oh no, here we go again, I never stated City is safer than a Scorpio. A sturdy built car will take less beating in small speed crashes. And I did explain it, narrating a small accident I had.I think you misunderstood the point I am trying to convey.
Hey buddy, I understood what you meant.

Even I am saying that a city MAY BE safer than the Scorpio as sturdy cars need not be safer, as you have shown in the videos above.

But instead, what I am saying is, what will be the result when you compare a sturdy yet safe car with the City...
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Old 3rd March 2012, 11:39   #10552
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Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post

I searched here & it shows that Honda City has a 4 star crash test rating whereas even a hatch like Punto has a 5 star rating.
That conclusion is not correct.
The website says, for Punto:
Vehicles tested after 1 January 2008 will require Electronic Stability Control in order achieve a 5 star rating. This vehicle was tested prior to this date and may or may not meet this new requirement.

Honda City 2010 model with ESC has five star rating. Honda City model without ESC has 4 star rating. If Punto was to be tested again, it would also get 4 star rating. So please dont go blindly by the ratings. Read the text too.
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Old 3rd March 2012, 12:14   #10553
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Would such ratings have any meaning at the speeds that are indicated?
There's still a state if mind that if the car crumbled, its not sturdy,hence unsafe and no good .
Agreed, its not sturdy ,but sturdy is the last thing you would want in case of a car in such impacts , no?
A tank or a bridge, yes.
Car, probably not.
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Old 3rd March 2012, 13:07   #10554
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Originally Posted by amitoj View Post
That conclusion is not correct.
The website says, for Punto:
Vehicles tested after 1 January 2008 will require Electronic Stability Control in order achieve a 5 star rating. This vehicle was tested prior to this date and may or may not meet this new requirement.

Honda City 2010 model with ESC has five star rating. Honda City model without ESC has 4 star rating. If Punto was to be tested again, it would also get 4 star rating. So please dont go blindly by the ratings. Read the text too.
Agreed my friend. Punto was just an example since it is one of the sturdier cars I know, with good safety ratings. I could not find the ratings of the Linea...

What my point is that... what would be the fate if a car which is sturdier & also has a 5 star safety rating? Since both the city & the sturdier car has the same safety ratings, dont you feel the sturdier car will survive this type of a crash better?
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Old 3rd March 2012, 13:19   #10555
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Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
Agreed my friend. Punto was just an example since it is one of the sturdier cars I know, with good safety ratings. I could not find the ratings of the Linea...

What my point is that... what would be the fate if a car which is sturdier & also has a 5 star safety rating? Since both the city & the sturdier car has the same safety ratings, dont you feel the sturdier car will survive this type of a crash better?
Define sturdiness and then how do you measure it. Hopefully its not by the "thudness" of the door
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Old 3rd March 2012, 13:31   #10556
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Define sturdiness and then how do you measure it. Hopefully its not by the "thudness" of the door
Nopes, the thud of the door is not the only factor. A thud comes from stronger & thicker body panels & such a car can be called sturdy.

I cannot exactly "define" sturdiness but I would say, a VW, Skoda, Fiat, Mahindra, etc. feels more sturdy than a Honda, Maruti or Toyota.

Please note I am saying sturdy & not necessarily safe.

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Old 3rd March 2012, 13:35   #10557
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Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
What my point is that... what would be the fate if a car which is sturdier & also has a 5 star safety rating? Since both the city & the sturdier car has the same safety ratings, dont you feel the sturdier car will survive this type of a crash better?
I think you must have watched the video I posted before. In that video, Mustang had crushed the SUV till C pillar. Similar to Honda City, yet the damage to Mustang was less just like what has happened to swift dzire. In such extreme cases, even if your car has 5 star rating and sturdy build the result will be similar. After all the question many people had was, how can a car be crushed so badly. Here is your answer, see what a Mustang at relative high speeds can do to a SUV.

Last edited by ecenandu : 3rd March 2012 at 13:59.
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Old 3rd March 2012, 13:49   #10558
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Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
Nopes, the thud of the door is not the only factor. A thud comes from stronger & thicker body panels & such a car can be called sturdy.

I cannot exactly "define" sturdiness but I would say, a VW, Skoda, Fiat, Mahindra, etc. feels more sturdy than a Honda, Maruti or Toyota.

Please note I am saying sturdy & not necessarily safe.
Your earlier posts implied sturdy as safe.But yes you are right. More sturdy is not necessarily safe. And the thudness is neither a measure of sturdiness nor safety. Please dont spread that myth. Otherwise it would have factored in the crash test ratings you posted earlier.

By the way, from those same ratings, Honda City without ESC scored 14.47 out of 16 against Punto's 13.6 out of 16 in offset crash test. Although Honda City without ESC scored 15.02 out of 16 against Punto's 15.63 out of 16, it still does not make it any less a safe car. So, if you think Puntoo's perceived sturdiness from its thudness is any measure of its safety, then you are wrong my friend.

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Old 3rd March 2012, 14:02   #10559
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Originally Posted by ecenandu View Post
I think you must have watched the video I posted before. In that video, Mustang had crushed the SUV till C pillar. Similar to Honda City, yet the damage to Mustang was less just like what had happened to swift dzire. In such extreme cases, even if your car has 5 star rating and sturdy build the result will be similar. After all the question many people had was, how can a car be crushed so badly. Here is your answer, see what a Mustang at relative high speeds can do to a SUV.
Cmon buddy, that video shows nothing.

Just for argument's sake, can we term a tin box van as an "SUV"?

Secondly, Mustangs are known to be heavily built sturdy cars. So it implies nothing.

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Originally Posted by amitoj View Post
Your earlier posts implied sturdy as safe.But yes you are right. More sturdy is not necessarily safe.
I have been repeated saying - sturdiness is not a measure of safety.

Quote:
And the thudness is neither a measure of sturdiness nor safety. Please dont spread that myth. Otherwise it would have factored in the crash test ratings you posted earlier.
Well, from what I feel is, sturdiness may not be a measure of safety, but at the same time, it does contribute to safety by a small extent.

That is why I am repeatedly saying - assume a Linea or a Vento in that place. I feel they would have has lesser damage comparatively.
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Old 3rd March 2012, 14:07   #10560
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Question re: Pics: Accidents in India

Since the few previous pages, I have been reading all opinions about Honda City, Swift Dzire and crash safety of these cars. Many points are valid and true; and also applicable in real life.

But I will say these are all after thoughts after the City-Dzire accident. Final outcome was that 2 people lost their lives. What has happened has happened; it cannot be changed now.

What I can infer from the previous few pages is this:

(1) Wear seat belts always. Driver and all the passenger(s) always.
(2) Drive slowly and safely. Be alert.
(3) Don't exceed the speed limit.
(4) Don't drive late at night unless necessary, because no matter how safe you drive, there will be someone who is driving unsafe on the roads.
(5) No matter how good a car scores in crash safety; the safety rating doesn't make any sense if you are not properly belted up or if you are speeding on the road or if you are driving rashly.
(6) There will be many bad drivers on the road. You can't avoid all of them, but being alert and keeping a lookout everywhere you can avoid at-least some of them.
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