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Old 16th April 2013, 15:01   #13081
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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
Gentlemen, slowing down is always an option.

No offence intended, nor any intention to shout, but one of the least understood aspects of driving is that speed should be governed by the conditions and the risks and not by the driver's need to get somewhere at a particular time.

This is not about emergency stops. It is about looking ahead and thinking about what might be there and adjusting speed, gear, etc to cope with it.

We are none of us perfect; we will not succeed in doing this all the time, but if we are not willing to take it on board, then we will probably be contributing to this thread, which is full of collisions with things that "should" not have been there, or didn't get out of the way, and full of attempts to blame the object, rather than the driver who drove into it. Indeed, better not to drive. This is not aimed at anyone: it is a humble attempt to remind (including myself) of why so many of these accidents happen.

And why is defensive driving so important? One of my late dad's driving mantras: 50% of accidents are the other person's fault.
It's true. I'm sure he takes no pleasure in killing any creature, nor in damaging his own car, and I repeat that this is not an attack. It is about lessons to learn, and the prime accident avoidance technique is not to be going too fast.


.

Defensive driving is always the best option. Our roads are so crowded these days, even if one has a 200+km/hr car and the road looks 160+Kms/hr, its far from the truth. a little more than 2 decades back, the speedo needle used to hover around 120kays. Now, I get bursts of 130 odd but its mostly around 90 to 100. Ive had a few dogs darting across, a few goats. Ive had a few dunken monks meditating.

Braking is always an option. Each time, something crossed, Its pure instinct and experience taking over, glance the RVMs, hit the brakes, change lanes etc. it all happens so quick. I ve had some close calls but well within limits, If there is a dumpertruck or a mad volvo I dont have much choice. In all other cases id be hitting the brakes, not locking it and would avoid a hit.

@blackberry. What would you have done if it was a buffalo, a villager, an Elephant or a tanker?


you are driving too fast if you cant brake in time. Told by one of the best driving teacher Ive ever had.
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Old 16th April 2013, 15:10   #13082
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Default re: Pics: Accidents in India

We live in a country where people can afford a motorcycle, cell phone but cannot afford a helmet. Safety isn't anyone's concern. Infrastructure (road, public transport etc.) will always remain a problem. But why can't people be self disciplined and adhere to rules ? Why can't people bother about their own safety ? Why do we assume others would be considerate ? I wish the rider did not go on the right most lane. I wish that incident did not happen.

When i see the talented riders on motorcycles (single or with multiple pillion riders) zig zag and cut across, i wish them good luck. I don't think safety is anyone's concern. We believe in luck, god than being safe or follow rules.

And i just got to know that a relative of mine, young girl is in the ICU after a nasty head injury. She was riding pillion with a friend, both were not wearing helmet and the scooter they were on hit a divider at reasonable speed (that's what the claim is). The rider is paralyzed as she too suffered head injury. Not even a single scratch on their body. Both can afford iphone and galaxy but a helmet was unaffordable. Both the victims are just 22 years old and were lying on the road for more than 15 minutes before they got some help.
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Old 16th April 2013, 15:24   #13083
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Default re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by khoj View Post
Result is a family destroyed by sheer ignorance and primary action(s) on part of the motorbike driver.
I wonder if the sheer ignorance and rider's actions were the only reasons for destroyed family. I think the other killers were the numerous vehicles that passed by without helping, the police inaction and the person at the other end of CCTV who was not doing his duty.
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Old 16th April 2013, 15:34   #13084
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Originally Posted by Ketan View Post
You may be walking with your family around the safe areas/gardens in your residential area, its different than walking to bus-stop everyday from home, get a bus, change the bus at another stop, walk to another stop take another to get to your final destination that may be another few mtrs/kms away from the bus stop.
I too walk with my family on regular basis inside the layout I live in, but I cant compare that with what we are talking about here. You rightly indicated that 'No one in India cares about pedestrians'

Coming to your point where you stop for others to cross the roads (I'm not getting in details whether its a cow or dog , but human lives, definitely got priority), It would be interesting to know where did you learn that from? Quite a few of us do that and I follow that most of the times. I have had lessons in the school about crossing roads only at Zebra crossings and a couple of more such but nothing more than that (our education system needs improvements too), I learnt it by looking at others who are following it strictly, mainly in the US and other countries. That changed a bit of my behavior, for sure. We can be an example in our own country to help others.

Mannubhai was talking about the modern cyclist, I have not seen a modern 'modern cyclist' waiting besides (Sony world signal), and seen many cyclists jumping that same signal a many times, but I'm just trying to look at that single example that can make a positive impact and we want to see more of them.

You said, 'generally people, dog, bulls, cows don't use pedestrian crossing'.

So, coming back to the original question, 'pedestrians and cyclist not honoring laws'. right area of focus (they have different needs at this time, the infrastructure), it has to be us motorists to improve the current state.
I walk on the roads in HSR Layout and Koramangala or Lavelle Road or Vittal Mallya Road or somewhere like that and even in these so-called higher end areas there is no respect for an elderly person walking on the road as a normal pedestrian.

In this country unlike anywhere else in the world, the person in the vehicle takes priority. The bigger the vehicle or the more expensive the vehicle, the greater the priority accorded to them. Each of us feels superior to the other, depending on our "status" that day - if Im on a bicycle or if I am walking, I am considered inferior to the bloke in a Maruti 800. If driving a Merc, I am superior to the Maruti. If driving a Volvo Bus, I am the King!

This apparently is the general feeling and seems to be the general belief of most people in India, who use the public roads!

Coming to pedestrian crossings and over bridges. There are over bridges provided in Indira Nagar and again near the Leela hotel in Bangalore. Practically no one uses these. Most people prefer to cross the road wherever they like. No one uses pedestrian crossings either.
In fact, on most roads in this country you will find that the pedestrian crossing has been pretty much obliterated.
I generally stop on the road to allow people to cross because I ve seen my Dad do it since I was a kid. I would like to continue this practice.

To me the life of a dog or a bull or a cow is as important as that of another human. I will not say that human life takes priority.

I have seen these new generation recreational cyclists happily cutting the traffic lights on the roads especially at Sony World Koramangala, India Garage Victoria Layout and Indira Nagar after the bridge. These recreational cyclists are wearing first class expensive protective gear, sports glasses, riding fancy bikes etc. I imagine they are from highly educated backgrounds and work in some fancy multi national or IT company or other similar. I would imagine also that they have travelled abroad a number of times. Yet, in this country they break the law...
To me this is not ok.

However much as a motorist and as suggested by you, I may bow my head and look after my fellow men, I will not accept blatant law breaking on anyones part.

As an aside, a few weekends ago, I was floating about in Indira Nagar near Hum India.
A young couple came flying by on a Yamaha RTR motorcycle, overtook a big bus with a very narrow margin for error and the bike slipped when the rider was "banking".
They fell flat on the ground, the bike went flying and both of them were completely stunned.
They were really lucky they escaped with minor injuries like scratches. Since neither of them wore a helmet I am really happy that they did not hit their heads on the ground anywhere.
I gave them a talking to but they looked blankly at me and went off immediately, picked up their bike and rode off. The Bus had stopped. The driver looked at me, shrugged his shoulders, smiled and went on...
Ridiculous! A Yamaha costs at least 1.5 lacs. Yet this young couple does not have the sense to spend money on proper protective gear and a base level helmet?
I am speechless!

Last edited by shankar.balan : 16th April 2013 at 15:39.
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Old 16th April 2013, 15:51   #13085
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Originally Posted by vvb8530 View Post
In the evening i was driving by the exact same spot and what do you know, there are 2 more drain covers missing
Drain covers are normally stolen like telephone or electrical wires are for their value in the metal market. This may not be a case of negligence by the municipality.

--R
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Old 16th April 2013, 15:58   #13086
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Default re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by YaeJay View Post
@blackberry. What would you have done if it was a buffalo, a villager, an Elephant or a tanker?


you are driving too fast if you cant brake in time. Told by one of the best driving teacher Ive ever had.
He's accepted that he could have braked to avoid this, but I guess assuming dog will complete the act of crossing or return after hearing the car horn did go wrong here. I'm sure he and lot of others here would be careful in such a situation in future. He's reaction may have been different if there was a bigger hazard as you mentioned.

I read someone talking about taking foot off the accelerator, I usually do that as soon as I'm not comfortable with the visibility ahead or see/predict obstacle and get ready to brake. That technique makes you a slower driver, but I don't see a big harm in that, except a few minutes late arrival for which one should leave early. I have once heard from my friend driving with me, 'don't take your foot off the accelerator' I guess he was in hurry but I still do that when necessary.

from what blackberry explained at the very beginning, it didn't seem he was aware of anyone tailgating as such, but I don't want to speculate. I got myself in similar situation last Feb when I was driving between Malavalli - Kanakpura - I wouldn't say I was fast, we were around 60-70, it was dark and I spotted a snake crossing with my 'just ok' low beams, I could have spotted it early with high beams ON, but its a 2-lane and I didn't want to drive with high beams ON. We were two cars, a Xenon XT was following me, I have been observing him driving too close to my comfort, once even thought of talking about this once we get down for a break. It was too late to brake hard when I saw the shining body rolling across the road, I'm driving on the right most of my lane and suddenly moving to the left most to see if I can save the creature I love, car took that sudden movement just fine, everyone (we were 5 of us) in the car shook with that sudden maneuver and I pulled over on the mud shoulder a bit ahead, Xenon stopped too, it was a healthy cobra, injured badly and in very defensive mood since it was injured badly; one of us (expert with snake handling) picked it up and tried to navigate to the side of the road, and there he went back to the fields again. It was hurt and according to the expert, its not going to live longer with that injury. There was just one cut on the vertebrae made me feel that I may have got it in the center but the other car couldn’t. However, I believed the version of driver behind me that both of us went over it. We were back on road in a few minutes.

I was just telling others in the car that it was too late for me to brake and even if I had tried, the other guy may have banged us from behind, I tried my best not to panic and save the creature at the same time, I wish I could. I had many snake encounters on roads in past, but this was the first time ever, I couldn’t brake in time.


Point is, we have to be very careful, we are lucky that no one of us got hurt and we got to learn the lesson with not too high a cost.

Last edited by Ketan : 16th April 2013 at 16:16.
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Old 16th April 2013, 15:59   #13087
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Default re: Pics: Accidents in India

Hi Ragul,

Yes i am aware that stealing the drain covers is a common practice, however in this case as i have mentioned in my earlier post the drain covers were there but had fallen inside the drain itself. This is a clear case of negligence from the municipality itself and the biggest reason to blame the authorities is that even after being warned they did not treat this as an urgent matter. Lives could have been lost here.

Regards,
Varun
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Old 16th April 2013, 19:11   #13088
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Quick up update from Bangalore.

Will I feel sad if this fellow dies ? No. Not at all.

This fellow was jaywalking, talking on mobile on the super busy Silk Board Flyover (B'loreans can testify how busy this flyover is)

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Old 16th April 2013, 19:25   #13089
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Default re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by sourabhzen View Post
Slowing down and giving way to them won't cost us anything!
Totally with you and not disputing that fact at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rohanjf View Post

Pedestrians and cyclists do not break signals. There hardly are any signals for pedestrians in Bangalore!! Moreover, the infrastructure does not help pedestrians and cyclists anyway.
I disagree. Just today in Anil Kumble circle, i came across a gentle man in a very expensive bicycle. I was proceeding towards sivajinagar and so was he. We got red and all stopped. He then started cycling and stood in the middle of the road. As he got a small gap, he went ahead and crossed the road, in a red light. He was lucky that no one was speeding at that time. I saw him at the next signal and he did the same there also.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ketan View Post


We are heading in a wrong direction totally.
IMO, only thing we can do is set the example everyday and let others learn, if they don't, you can surely educate your kids and at least the next generation will see better tomorrow while government can make all their attempts to enforce the law (a difficult and less lasting effect) to make things better.

.
I agree to some of your views.

Ill take an example of Christ college. I pass that route very often. In the morning hours dairy cicle flyover to Koramangala is a mess. All thanks to the students crossing the road. I agree they need to go to college and study. I know the govt and college cannot "afford" a pedestrian overbridge. They have kept a traffic warden to ensure students cross the road safely, by stopping the traffic.

Now between the flyover and forum mall signal, there are atleast 10-12 other places where these kids cross the roads, inspite of having a zebra crossing manned by a traffic warden. Shouldn't this be treated as an offense ? Shouldn't there be education from college/cops on this ? What about the man hours lost for public in this traffic mess ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
This does not however, excuse the behaviour of cyclists and other vehicles too, breaking the red light and doing whatever they feel like...
Absolutely !! I slow down because i respect their lives and accept the fact that our poor infra does not give too much options to them. But what irritates is the fact that the respect is not mutual.
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Old 16th April 2013, 21:11   #13090
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Originally Posted by Soumyajit9 View Post
Quick up update from Bangalore.

Will I feel sad if this fellow dies ? No. Not at all.

This fellow was jaywalking, talking on mobile on the super busy Silk Board Flyover (B'loreans can testify how busy this flyover is)

Attachment 1074466
Well, I think I will definitely feel sad. The problem is, the road etiquette are not taught to us.

Now consider this, this guy wants to go from one side of the flyover to another. I take the silk board route everyday, I personally find it next to impossible to cross the silk board red light as a pedestrian. So atleast if he sticks to the leftmost side of the flyover, there is a high possibility that he gets to the other side alive. For somebody like my Mom, who have a traffic phobia, it is impossible to cross this red light, battling the numerous honks and abuses the pedestrians get.

Finally, no offence, but I personally feel that we, the better drivers should value human life more, and shall not talk about somebody losing his / her life in such a light manner.
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Old 16th April 2013, 21:27   #13091
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The problem is, the road etiquette are not taught to us.
Thats right. Road sense is not taught. It is *assumed* that everybody will pick up on their own. Different people pick up different aspects and each one is at different stage of learning. Hence the chaos on roads.

I wish traffic best practices is studied at least as non-credit course in high school.
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Old 16th April 2013, 21:29   #13092
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Thats right. Road sense is not taught. It is *assumed* that everybody will pick up on their own. Different people pick up different aspects and each one is at different stage of learning. Hence the chaos on roads.

I wish traffic best practices is studied at least as non-credit course in high school.
Totally agree. IMHO instead of teaching moral science in school, one should teach Road sense, that has more practical usage :-P
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Old 16th April 2013, 21:32   #13093
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Originally Posted by evilshantanu View Post

Well, I think I will definitely feel sad. The problem is, the road etiquette are not taught to us.

Now consider this, this guy wants to go from one side of the flyover to another. I take the silk board route everyday, I personally find it next to impossible to cross the silk board red light as a pedestrian. So atleast if he sticks to the leftmost side of the flyover, there is a high possibility that he gets to the other side alive. For somebody like my Mom, who have a traffic phobia, it is impossible to cross this red light, battling the numerous honks and abuses the pedestrians get.

Finally, no offence, but I personally feel that we, the better drivers should value human life more, and shall not talk about somebody losing his / her life in such a light manner.
I still cannot accept the fact that he is safer on the flyover than the signal below. No way it is safer. There is no footpath on the flyover. Pedestrians are banned on it. There is no way that he will not be harmed by the criss crossing vehicles on the flyover. Worse, even though he is hurt there will be no one to come to his rescue as opposed to the signal below. The signal below is manned by numerous cops. There is about 10 seconds for pedestrian crossing at each signal interval. There is always huge group of people crossing the signal. So it is safer in that group.

Apologies for the harsh statement in my earlier post, but I was shocked when I saw that guy while I was waiting at the signal. I sensed that it was either of the two situations that the guy felt while climbing up the flyover:
- My life has no value for whatsoever reason and there is no one to cry after me.
- Or, I am God and no vehicle can hurt me.

Last edited by Soumyajit9 : 16th April 2013 at 21:34.
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Old 17th April 2013, 11:45   #13094
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This was reported in the papers today. Second one to fall from a flyover in Chennai, after the guy who fell on the railway tracks from an unfinished flyover a couple of years back. He survived, this one did not. Both were driving SUVs.

http://newindianexpress.com/cities/c...cle1548321.ece
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Old 17th April 2013, 12:57   #13095
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Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
This was reported in the papers today. Second one to fall from a flyover in Chennai, after the guy who fell on the railway tracks from an unfinished flyover a couple of years back. He survived, this one did not. Both were driving SUVs.

http://newindianexpress.com/cities/c...cle1548321.ece
This is the TTK Road - CP Ramaswamy Road one-way flyover. The curve on top of the flyover is devoid of any banking and is hence extremely dangerous. Plus the report says the driver was not wearing the seatbelt.

Here is the curve: http://goo.gl/maps/01liN
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