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Old 27th November 2013, 17:51   #14491
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I figure crumple zones are like perishable springs that partly absorb the impact such that the whole shock doesn't get transmitted to the passenger cabin. By adding bull bars (which are fixed to the chassis), the whole purpose of that crumple zone is defeated.

So apart from them not having buckled up, the bull bar transmitted a great deal of the impact within the cabin, else they'd have been in much better shape now.
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Old 27th November 2013, 18:29   #14492
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Read this somewhere.

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Seem to remember hearing that bull bars were invented because Australians got fed up of injuring kangaroos on the road, so being humane they designed bull bars that would kill them outright instead of leaving them to die a lingering death.
This is my understanding of bull bar. May be it was designed with Kangaroos in mind but the impact it creates is equally as expected.

The crumple zone is beautifully constructed if you happen to open your grill and clean and stuff and you will know these bull bars
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Old 27th November 2013, 18:46   #14493
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Just heard that 7 people from Trichur died in an accident on Dindigul highway. They were heading to Velankanni.

May their souls RIP
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Old 28th November 2013, 01:02   #14494
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If this post looks too long, just read the bold bits!

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Originally Posted by zenren View Post
EDIT: To rephrase the point I'm still not clear, how would the absence of bull-bar in that Safari prevent the injury to those passengers? I'm speaking about this specific instance and not a general case since someone mentioned that the entire fault is with the bull-bar.
I don't think it would have made any difference.

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Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao View Post
Isn't the primary function of crumple zones to absorb the forces of impact and 'soften' (there might be a more accurate technical term for this) the impact on the passenger cabin as much as possible?
depends on how you see "soften." The primary function of crumple zones is to crumple ...so that some place other doesn't. The purpose is to keep the box as a box, not something that crushes the passengers. I guess there are other details, like minimizing the extent to which the steering column is rushing at the driver as the driver rushes at the steering column (belted or not, crumple zones would make a difference there)

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But it's possible that if there was no bull-bar, the crumple zones would've absorbed more of the impact, and the occupants may have been catapulted into the windscreen with slightly less force.
Doubt it very, very much indeed. The whole essence of unbelted occupant injury is that, as the car suddenly decelerates/stops, the occupants don't.

I don't believe that the very slight difference to deceleration during the moments of crumpling would make the occupant/window collision any easier at all. and...

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Still mighty stupid not to belt-up, but the bull-bar probably made things worse. They would still be injured, but probably a bit less grievously.
...that is probably not the case


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Originally Posted by the_skyliner View Post
Not having bull-bar could have resulted in to the occupants being thrown at the windshield with less force which means less injuries.
I don't think so: see above.
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What bull-bar did is it transferred all the forces (kinetic) directly to the vehicle chassis (and eventually to the occupants) as it is not designed to crumble unlike the car body parts.
No! The passengers have all that potential energy before the crash. They have it even if there isn't a crash. It is there simply because the speed at which they are travelling.

The vehicle does not throw them forward: they throw themselves forward.


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If they would have belted then the bull-bar effect would have resulted in to a bigger jerk which could result in to neck or spinal injury.
No! Try this: open a room door two or three inches and slam it on your fingers. Now open it all the way and slam it on your fingers. Don't try that! Your imagination, or a bit of door slamming without fingers should give you the answer with no loss of fingers. You'll understand seat belts better. You'll also not be taken quite so much by surprise at what happens when you gybe in a yacht. You'll get the idea of preventer stays. You'll be a better sailor


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Originally Posted by GrammarNazi View Post
So apart from them not having buckled up, the bull bar transmitted a great deal of the impact within the cabin, else they'd have been in much better shape now.
See the bit in bold above.
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Old 28th November 2013, 07:42   #14495
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Today morning on ORR at HSR flyover. Not sure how it ended up on other side. Front axle was broken and was hanging on flyover railings.

Pics: Accidents in India-img_20131128_064414.jpg

Also a TT had run over a bike exactly below silkboard flyover. Not sure about casualties
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Old 29th November 2013, 00:26   #14496
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Originally Posted by coolclouds View Post
Just heard that 7 people from Trichur died in an accident on Dindigul highway. They were heading to Velankanni.

May their souls RIP
Here are couple of pics from the news links. Sad that all 7 in the car lost their life including 2 kids.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/nationa...cle5400414.ece

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Old 29th November 2013, 06:29   #14497
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Originally Posted by arun_josie View Post

Here are couple of pics from the news links. Sad that all 7 in the car lost their life including 2 kids.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/nationa...cle5400414.ece
Is that a maruti dezire? When will we wake up to the fact that following regulations saves lives?That car was crushed under the truck just because the truck didnt have an Front Underrun Protection Device.From the intensity of the crash dont know whether that would have mattered though.
Another is the position of the vehicles.The truck seems to be almost back in from wrong side,whereas the car seems completely on the wrong side.blind overtaking by car when the truck pulled in to the road from a rest stop on the wrong side?
R.I.P poor souls...
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Old 29th November 2013, 06:59   #14498
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Regarding the Dindigul highway accident:

The vernacular press reported that the person driving the Dzire was driving at high speeds to catch up with another car going in the front, and while trying to overtake, crashed into the truck head-on.

"Three families were proceeding in two cars to Velankanni from Thrissur on a pilgrimage"
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Old 29th November 2013, 08:39   #14499
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ramzsys View Post
Regarding the Dindigul highway accident:

The vernacular press reported that the person driving the Dzire was driving at high speeds to catch up with another car going in the front, and while trying to overtake, crashed into the truck head-on.

"Three families were proceeding in two cars to Velankanni from Thrissur on a pilgrimage"
I don't know if it is right to say this, but if someone wishes to knock at the devil's door, chances are that hell might welcome him! Can't put it any more diplomatic, without hurting the deceased. But my heartfelt sympathies for the other 6 in the car, who were 'killed' by the maniac driver
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Old 29th November 2013, 09:26   #14500
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Accident at Pala, Kottayam. The driver succumbed to his injuries. He was an ex employee of mine and only 21yrs old :( tragic. It also happened to be his birthday ! Happened at around 11:30 at night, and the car was a rental. It was not a major turn or anything , but he lost control. If you look at the pic of the tree you will see at what height the car hit the tree. May his soul RIP.
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Old 29th November 2013, 10:47   #14501
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ramzsys View Post
Regarding the Dindigul highway accident:

The vernacular press reported that the person driving the Dzire was driving at high speeds to catch up with another car going in the front, and while trying to overtake, crashed into the truck head-on.

"Three families were proceeding in two cars to Velankanni from Thrissur on a pilgrimage"
It could be that the car in front of him would have tried overtaking the truck and this guy would have blindly followed him. I have seen this many times happening on the highways.

I feel bad for these truck drivers. Especially these loaded trucks takes some time to gain reasonable amount of speed and morons like this Dzire guy make them brake frequently by doing very late overtakes.
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Old 29th November 2013, 11:17   #14502
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arun_josie

It could be that the car in front of him would have tried overtaking the truck and this guy would have blindly followed him. I have seen this many times happening on the highways.

I feel bad for these truck drivers. Especially these loaded trucks takes some time to gain reasonable amount of speed and morons like this Dzire guy make them brake frequently by doing very late overtakes.
As per some reports, this car stopped at a wayside shop to buy milk and was trying to catch up their car in front.

On the other hand, that driver was aged just 21 or 22 and I doubt how experienced was he on highways. I have seen some friends from Kerala drive at full throttle once they exit congested and speed restricted Kerala roads. These guys never think about a breaking distance while overspeeding.

Last edited by coolclouds : 29th November 2013 at 11:18.
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Old 29th November 2013, 12:29   #14503
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Originally Posted by gov626 View Post
Accident at Pala, Kottayam. Happened at around 11:30 at night, and the car was a rental. It was not a major turn or anything , but he lost control. If you look at the pic of the tree you will see at what height the car hit the tree. May his soul RIP.
This is really sad!!. The impact looks to be head-on with the tree. I'm not sure if the driver had his seatbelt on or not, but a combination of seat-belt AND airbags could have probably saved the driver here??

The car seems to be a Ritz VDi with ABS, and without airbags. I'm not sure I agree with the manufacturer's concept of dividing safety features into fragments and offering one but not the other. Basic safety features like ABS and Airbags should be made mandatory in India ASAP.
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Old 29th November 2013, 12:39   #14504
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Originally Posted by TwentyDeewar View Post
This is really sad!!. The impact looks to be head-on with the tree. I'm not sure if the driver had his seatbelt on or not, but a combination of seat-belt AND airbags could have probably saved the driver here??

The car seems to be a Ritz VDi with ABS, and without airbags. I'm not sure I agree with the manufacturer's concept of dividing safety features into fragments and offering one but not the other. Basic safety features like ABS and Airbags should be made mandatory in India ASAP.
No he didn't have seat belts on . But yes as you said , a combination of the seatbelt and airbags could have saved him.
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Old 29th November 2013, 12:55   #14505
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Originally Posted by TwentyDeewar View Post
The car seems to be a Ritz VDi with ABS, and without airbags. I'm not sure I agree with the manufacturer's concept of dividing safety features into fragments and offering one but not the other.
Isn't something better than nothing? I don't think Maruti should be blamed for giving ABS as optional extra, though not giving an option at all is something that could be blamed. I did criticize them when they didn't have a ZDi back in 2008 when we were out shopping.

Speaking about splitting the safety features, even the ABS + dual airbags version should be avoided by the same argument since they are still skimping on the side and curtain airbags. That increases the premium for safety kit and decreases the chance that someone would actually buy them.

After all, no one gets into a fatal accidents anticipating the same. Psychologically, there is a higher chance that people who think safety features are not really worth the cost would never think of an accident involving them as a possibility till it actually happens and hence might have a marginally higher chance of an accident.
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