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Old 18th October 2011, 12:05   #1
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Default How about Team Bhp taking a lead in ensuring public transport is safer

Team,

Just read about one more Volvo bus accident on the NH63 ,where 4 lives were lost .Bus accidents happen every day throughout the globe and if we analyze the reasons for fatalities in each of these accidents ,it is similar to any other vehicle accident ĖPassengers are thrown around within and outside the vehicle .

Mangalore-Mumbai Bus Meets with Accident at Ankola - Four Dead
Indian Luxury Buses: Infosys KSRTC Volvo accident : Full details
Indian Luxury Buses: Fatal KPN Volvo B9R crash : the first in India
Indian Luxury Buses: Another Mercedes Bus accident : Nagpur to Pune route
Indian Luxury Buses: Neeta Travels' Mercedes tri-axle bus' Mumbai-Goa accident


SEAT BELTS IF IN PLACE COULD HAVE DEFINITELY SAVED .Now you will say, how do we ensure that people wear seat belts .This is something that will take some effort and some time to fall in place .These days almost everyone wears a seat belt by default in cars, but all of us would remember that there were times when people though of this as an accessory or a pain which they have to go through just to avoid being fined by the traffic police.Maybe advertisements in TVs ,banners and videos within the buses can be used

What I fail to understand is the point of having buses which do 100+ speeds and have safety measures built in them if they canít save occupants in the event of a crash .A simple seat belt and a bit of awareness will go a long way in saving so many lives!
If Volvo and Merecedes can have buses with seat belts for all passengers in other countries, why canít they have it here in India? BECAUSE HERE THE LAW ISNT STRICT ENOUGH TO FORCE OPERATORS TO HAVE SEAT BELTS.


I think its time, insurance companies also ensure that buses have seat belts for all seats .In the event of an accident, the insurance company will have to shell out more in terms of compensation for a bus without seat belts as fatalities would be definitely more .Today operators look at safety features like ABS or TCS as additional expenditure rather than means to protecting their own vehicles.

About drivers driving rash ,its time that passengers also play a role to ensure that their lives are safe .If a driver is seen driving rash ,he should be reported to the bus company and also to the nearest police station .Rash driving doesnít mean driving at 120 kph ! It also means overtaking without any regard for other road users! and driving fast is not always rash .A driver can still be a very safe driver if he/she sticks to traffic rules and some common sense and still drives within the limitations of the road and the vehicle .

Having cameras in buses will help ensuring that people are held accountable.

Its time law enforcement takes into account working hours for drivers and the conditions of the bus/truck .I have seen so many B7Rs and B9Rs running on almost bald tires !!

We as the loudest and biggest forum of car lovers and enthusiasts can definitely take a lead in ensuring that auto companies hear us .What is the point of calling ourselves automobile lovers if we cannot contribute towards making the roads a safer place to drive on !

I would suggest, we use this thread to discuss the various safety features and changes that be brought about to the passenger bus sector in India .And I also suggest that we donít stop only at that .We should take a lead on ensuring that just like passenger cars ,even bus or truck makers give us what is offered in other countries and that the law enforcement also plays its part in making the roads a much safer place .As of now ,the only role I see of the traffic police is to bully people into paying fines rather than try and instill a sense of safety and common sense

Mods, if you feel this is spam, please feel free to delete this thread.
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Old 18th October 2011, 13:01   #2
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Red face Re: How about Team Bhp taking a lead in ensuring public transport is safer

@Speedsatya

You have raised a valid point and thanks for bringing the same to dicussion. The three most imp reason for every accident which I feel is the
1) Drivers not trained for the vehicle/route
2) Driving in any form of intoxication/over confidence
3) Lack of safety systems in the vehicle.

If 1 and 3 are overcome initially I guess the no of bus accidents can be reduced greatly. Point#2 largely depends on the behaviour of the drivers. Inspite of having the greatest safety systems on board the accidents do happen due to point#2. One way of avoiding the accidents would be have speed limiter on the buses so that they never go above 80-90kmph. Secondly have a GPS installed in the buses so that the control station would know where the bus location is and the approximate speeds the bus is travelling.
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Old 18th October 2011, 19:42   #3
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Default Re: How about Team Bhp taking a lead in ensuring public transport is safer

This would be a very good initiative.

The challenges would be to -

1) Train the average Joe (Passenger) and make him understand the impact of seat belts. Believe me, Including my own family, People dont listen unless they are involved in a crash. My family did not wear selt belts at all, how much ever i insisted. One day i met with an accident and it was the seat belt that saved me from any harm. From that day onwards My family wears a seat belt even if it is a short drive to refuel at the nearest fuel station.


2) If there is a law in place to enforce seat belts, It is an oppurtunity for the appropriate to make money (Bribes). If The people who certify the vehicles are adamant on not taking a bribe for seat belts it would be effective.

3) @ Ghodlur - Owners and travels insist on reaching the destination on time. No one bothers or insists on departing the source on time. From the 'n' number of times i have travelled by Bus, only once or twice has the bus left exactly on time (Private and Govt both).

4) Too Frequent stops on a Bus Route example Chennai-Bangalore via Hosur in Karnataka KSRTC has 2 breaks (one before Krishnagiri Toll plaza and another near Vellore). KPN in the same route has 3-4 breaks Hosur (Pick people - 15 mins) - K'Giri (10 mins) - Vellore (15-30 mins) and Tea break outside Vellore. This leads to overspeeding and rash driving to reach on time. I personally feel 1 break of 30 mins is more than sufficient for a distance of 350 kms for a proffessional driver.


I am ready and i volunteer for any initiatives like this. I have just one concern. I (and Team BHP) should not end up being the the laughing stock in Public. This is India where people (Non-Team BHPians) value DVD Player more than seat belts.

Last edited by scopriobharath : 18th October 2011 at 19:45.
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Old 19th October 2011, 23:26   #4
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Default Re: How about Team Bhp taking a lead in ensuring public transport is safer

Forget about being laughing stock and not being accepted by the DVD public .We have just 3 replies and so many views .That in itself speaks for how important this issue to this so-called vehicle loving audience.

I am sure 99% of these "views" would have thought of this thread as a waste of time !
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Old 20th October 2011, 00:14   #5
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Default Re: How about Team Bhp taking a lead in ensuring public transport is safer

Buses don't have seat belts even in USA, not even in school buses. Only a handful of states mandate seat belts in school buses: School bus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 20th October 2011, 03:02   #6
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Default Re: How about Team Bhp taking a lead in ensuring public transport is safer

I actually like the idea of a seat belt in a Bus. But then again like a lot of good ideas &/or rules the implementation could be very tricky.

I mean, it took us long time to make people use seat belts(even now most of us use seat belts to avoid challans & not as a measure of safety), infact I would assume that a majority of our population still doesnt use seat belts.

heck I have even seen people not putting up seat belts in Planes(seen folks removing them as soon as the flight attendant has done checking)
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Old 20th October 2011, 07:36   #7
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Default Re: How about Team Bhp taking a lead in ensuring public transport is safer

They say high back seats on the bus provide better protection than seat belts. That is why seat belts were never mandated on buses.

Quote:
The chief justification is a 1987 study by the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB), which looked at 43 serious crashes involving school buses without seat belts. Researchers concluded that seat belts would have been no help in most of these accidents. The study reasoned that closely-spaced bus seats essentially function as seat belts, in that they prevent passengers from being thrown around. A 1989 National Academy of Sciences study came to a similar conclusion.
Source:Why Don't Buses Have Seat Belts? - Slate Magazine
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Old 20th October 2011, 09:23   #8
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Default Re: How about Team Bhp taking a lead in ensuring public transport is safer

While seat-belts will ensure a lower probability of severe injury in case of an accident - efforts should be made to enforce safety regulations at an enforceable level.

Well banked roads, tires in good conditions, working electricals, signage, road quality are things in control of the authorities and should be handled first.

Passenger education is a must. Take the airline industry - why are people strapped in during take off and landing?
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Old 22nd October 2011, 01:15   #9
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
They say high back seats on the bus provide better protection than seat belts. That is why seat belts were never mandated on buses.

Source:Why Don't Buses Have Seat Belts? - Slate Magazine


Samurai ,if we continue reading the link that you have provided,it clearly mentions that seat belts would save lives for sure ,but its the cost factor that is the limiting factor
Quote:
But the 1990s saw a series of injuries and deaths in which passengers were tossed around or ejected from the bus. Last year, the NTSB president called for a "re-examination" of the issue, and a NTSB report is due this summer. On Tuesday, USA Today said the report is "expected" to endorse seat belts, though the article doesn't identify its source. Meanwhile, a number of respected organizations--the national PTA, American Medical Association, American College of Emergency Physicians--have endorsed the idea of requiring belts. And in most European countries, school buses have both lap and shoulder belts.
About seat belts ,I did see all buses in Europe ( MAN,Mercedes Benz,Volvo,Mitsubishi) have seat belts for every passenger till the last row.

More from one of my favourite sites :

2 B9Rs crash on the NH4 and once again lives are lost .I can understand people getting hurt when vehicles crash .But how do you explain deaths when buses overturn! Seat belts could have saved for sure ( if they were worn) .TCS and ABS could have probably saved the bus from toppling ( if the bus had these on it ) .But our operators chose to save 10 L per bus on safety aids and end up spending triple of that on accident damages that could have probably been lesser had these safety aids been in place
Indian Luxury Buses: Another Sharma Volvo accident - this time in Davanagere

Last edited by Technocrat : 22nd October 2011 at 02:03.
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Old 22nd October 2011, 02:05   #10
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Default Re: How about Team Bhp taking a lead in ensuring public transport is safer

How could team-bhp help in the implementation of this rule? Firstly, when this rule does not exist?

The first and foremost rule is that buses and other commercial transport vehicles do not come in the extreme right lane. The last lane is for them and the middle one if they need to overtake.Where is that followed. Then there is a speed limit on these buses and in many states there is a mandatory limiter put in these buses. Thats what i think is necessary.

What is so difficult in putting up boards along the highway/expressways that use the extreme right lane only for overtaking. There are idiotic drivers who drive at snail speed and refuse to give you the side, forcing you to overtake them from the left. On top of it all when you pass, you get a dirty glare, as if it is you who is in the wrong. I think the highway and traffic authorities need to check this primary folly made by many a driver, rather than try and catch erring drivers for the stupidest reasons to fill their pockets.

Please educate our nitwit drivers in the rules of the road.
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Old 22nd October 2011, 03:39   #11
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Default Re: How about Team Bhp taking a lead in ensuring public transport is safer

i think we have already made some valid points here...driver training, better buses, seat belts(are mandatory in europe) and in my opinion make all seats backward facing that will help greatly in reducing injuries even without seat belts.
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Old 22nd October 2011, 04:07   #12
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Default Re: How about Team Bhp taking a lead in ensuring public transport is safer

You could turn the seats around and have everybody face the rear. This would eliminate a lot of flying bodies in many crashes where the bus comes to a sudden stop.

This is not my brilliant idea. Some air carriers tried this for awhile. The psychological effect was so counter-intuitive that there were many complaints even though it saved lives.
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Old 22nd October 2011, 07:52   #13
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Default Re: How about Team Bhp taking a lead in ensuring public transport is safer

Good topic. Probably a video on safety showing impact of accidents with and without seatbelts before starting the bus journey. Similar to the one showed in flights

Its difficult to educate all the 30+ heads inside the bus than educating the 2 heads in the front. Driver and cleaner/conductor.

So, regular classes stressing the need for disciplined driving will help a lot. Also, speed governors and cameras will be added advantage. If you want to restrict something, you should make the feeling that "YOU are being monitored". Remember this is the way even in western countries.
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Old 28th October 2011, 16:13   #14
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Default Re: How about Team Bhp taking a lead in ensuring public transport is safer

Bus accidents are increasing day by day. There are many reasons for this. It starts from the enforcement officers,Police ,the employer of the bus company who employs the un qualified drivers. Finally some passengers too. If we fix all these people errors then we can reduce at least 50% of the accidents. What to say about the seat belt in the bus,even our own car it is difficult to make our family members to wear it while all travel together. now I am insisting the kids to wear with out fail and it started to work.
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Old 28th October 2011, 16:32   #15
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Default Re: How about Team Bhp taking a lead in ensuring public transport is safer

Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDan View Post
You could turn the seats around and have everybody face the rear ... Some air carriers tried this for awhile.
If I were facing the tail of the plane when the plane crashed, I guess I would still die. So I don't understand how rearward facing seats can help save lives for air carriers.

The most important point in my mind is, is it a job for TBHP to do? The objective of this forum is to spread knowledge and information amongst the Indian auto enthusiasts. I doubt if taking up this issue formally with any authorities would fit in with the forum objectives.

I have long been wondering why autos, tempos, trucks and buses do not have seatbelts for the drivers. I recall a news article I read on the BBC news website about a treacherous ice road where wearing seatbelts is expressly forbidden. This is to allow the driver to quickly exit the vehicle should it sink into the ice. Maybe the government thinks the medium to heavy commercial vehicles are so prone to accidents the drivers should be able to exit the vehicle quickly in case they crash into something.

Last edited by honeybee : 28th October 2011 at 16:34.
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