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Old 22nd December 2011, 23:07   #106
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Default Re: Mercedes S-Class Accident : Owner dead, Airbag doesn't activate and Court orders

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Originally Posted by anjan_c2007 View Post
In fact, I have been apprehensive of the hollow claims by this company ever since Princess Diana lost her life in a road accident near Paris in August 1997. She was being driven on a 1994 "S" Class, a S280, with the Prince Dodi Al Fayed when the car collided with the wall of the Alma tunnel.And they were seated on the back seat when the car was doing some 110 kmph and not 190 kmph as was claimed in the earliest reports.
Just one question in response to your statement. Was she wearing a seatbelt?
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Old 22nd December 2011, 23:27   #107
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Default Re: Mercedes S-Class Accident : Owner dead, Airbag doesn't activate and Court orders

probably.

That's as far as I can go, not remembering any of the details, but it is a pretty fixed habit among Brits, even the royal ones.
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Old 23rd December 2011, 00:46   #108
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Default Re: Mercedes S-Class Accident : Owner dead, Airbag doesn't activate and Court orders

I think that I come across some info that may shift the blame on MB.

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It was alleged that not only the airbags but also the car's sensors, automatic unlocking and easy opening of the doors system did not function when the accident occurred. The court was told that the injured youth had to be taken out after cutting the car's roof with great difficulty.
Source
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Old 23rd December 2011, 01:36   #109
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Originally Posted by Furebo View Post
I think that I come across some info that may shift the blame on MB.
This malfunctioning can definitely be linked with the car getting serviced few days ago.
Why there is no update from markmytravel since few days.
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Old 23rd December 2011, 11:19   #110
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Default Re: Mercedes S-Class Accident : Owner dead, Airbag doesn't activate and Court orders

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Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
Just one question in response to your statement. Was she wearing a seatbelt?
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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
probably.

That's as far as I can go, not remembering any of the details, but it is a pretty fixed habit among Brits, even the royal ones.
Here is a quote from wikipedia:
Quote:
An inquest headed by Lord Justice Scott Baker into the deaths of Diana and Dodi began at the Royal Courts of Justice, London, on 2 October 2007 and was a continuation of the original inquest that began in 2004.[7] On 7 April 2008, the jury released an official statement that Diana and Dodi were unlawfully killed by the "grossly negligent driving of the following vehicles and of the Mercedes" adding that additional factors were "the impairment of the judgment of the driver of the Mercedes through alcohol" and "the death of the deceased was caused or contributed to by the fact that the deceased was not wearing a seat-belt, the fact that the Mercedes struck the pillar in the Alma Tunnel, rather than colliding with something else"
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Old 23rd December 2011, 12:11   #111
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My condolences to the family and may Nirmal’s soul rest in peace.

My 2 Cents. – Airbag will be of help when the support structure is in place. That is, when the passengers’ or driver’s body/head, Instead of banging the hard (metal + plastic) structure, the airbag comes as a cushion to reduce the impact. When I see the pictures of the car and narration by “markmytravel”, the “A” pillar bent so much & the roof is ripped off. If the rigid “A” pillar is bent/ripped off, what’s the use of airbag? Let’s be honest, the airbags reduce the impact injury to the passenger and driver, it can’t save lives if the impact is with monumental momentum (heavy truck of 20 tons + 2 ton MB at speed in excess of 80 KMPH (though the speed is speculation, let’s again be honest, this is not a head on collision and the MB was parallel to the truck or travelling in same direction, and the impact has ripped the “A” Pillar & the roof, this suggests me that the speed must be in excess of 80KMPH). My view point is, even if the curtain airbags and steering airbags got deployed, it would have been of no use as they could have been punctured / deflated due to the “A” pillar & the roof getting ripped off.

I have one view point about MB to air. Mods – Remove this portion if the below info is incorrect. Most of us may be aware that this company doesn’t “Patent” any of its safety inventions. I believe the ABS & EBD are gift from MB to all of us there may be many such inventions which I am not aware of. A company with such a heritage will not be risking the lives of its own customers like this. This accident should be investigated by professionals on how to improve the safety of the passengers of the cars in these kinds of accidents.

I have a doubt on all cars in general. There is a joint in almost all the cars’ “A” pillar area. If you see the photo of this MB, it is evident. My doubt in particular is this. Does the “A” pillar joined to chassis at a point higher, where we see the outer skin/panel joints, or it runs deeper/lower. This can lead to varied strength to the “A” pillar. The strength which is required to hold the structure in shape and to withstand in shape if car turns turtle is much less than the strength required to withstand a direct impact to the “A” pillar at speeds in excess of 80 KMPH.

Does our cars’ “A” pillars have enough strength for scenario 2?
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Old 23rd December 2011, 13:24   #112
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Default Re: Mercedes S-Class Accident : Owner dead, Airbag doesn't activate and Court orders

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Originally Posted by anjan_c2007 View Post
Very tragic to hear about the death of your brother in law..My heartfelt condolences and sympathies on the sad loss.The tragedy and the loss is irreparable. And the people talk about the battle tank like build quality of these cars. What nonsense to entice gullible buyers? These very people writing such stuff should be made to buy one for Rs 1 crore and sent to undergo crash tests.
In fact, I have been apprehensive of the hollow claims by this company ever since Princess Diana lost her life in a road accident near Paris in August 1997. She was being driven on a 1994 "S" Class, a S280, with the Prince Dodi Al Fayed when the car collided with the wall of the Alma tunnel.And they were seated on the back seat when the car was doing some 110 kmph and not 190 kmph as was claimed in the earliest reports.
This post is completely off topic. Since you brought up the Diana accident, did you know that the only person wearing a seatbelt in the Diana accident survived (the bodyguard if I remember correctly). Do a search on the internet. There are 100's of articles which will show you that Diana was not wearing her seatbelt and suffered the consequences. Also in that accident there are some claims about the driver being under the influence, but I don't know how true or false they are. Another interesting fact about that accident. Did you know that the car was traveling at double the permitted speed limit when it entered that tunnel? Also Diana survived the accident itself. She died in the ambulance due to the extent of her injuries.

That being out of the way. No car company has ever claimed that they build cars like battle tanks. It is the people who review these cars give them such tags. Just because the door closes with a thud it becomes a battle tank.

A lot of people have been harping about why don't airbags do off by default in case of any accident. Simple cause when airbags inflate their speed is close to 200kmph and at that rate of inflation they do more harm than good if they inflate when not required. Imagine sitting down and hitting a brick wall at that speed. That is how big the airbag impact is.

To the original poster, dude sorry for your loss. But chalk this one up to fate and get on with your life. What will be, will be.

No car can save anybody. Only the person driving has some say in it. But when fate intervenes, nobody can do a damn thing.

Last edited by Samurai : 23rd December 2011 at 19:55. Reason: avoid personal comments
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Old 23rd December 2011, 13:40   #113
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Default Re: Mercedes S-Class Accident : Owner dead, Airbag doesn't activate and Court orders

As I see it, Mercedes has a few strong-points in their case.

- Airbags will be activated miliseconds before a crash. However, for the airbags to activate, the sensor relies on driver-input i.e. sudden drop in speed due to hard braking. This is how the new airbag mechanisms work, I suppose.

- The Right-hand-side pillar has been ripped off completely (along with the airbag that would have saved him) and at speed, resulting in the driver losing consciousness(?) As cited by a fellow member earlier, and subsequently the car's control as well.

- Mild frontal impact does not warrant the requirement for airbags to deploy.
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Old 23rd December 2011, 14:09   #114
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Default Re: Mercedes S-Class Accident : Owner dead, Airbag doesn't activate and Court orders

Thanks for the corrections on the Diana accident. Having felt sincere regret at the tragedy, and the loss of good person, I did not join in the general mass reaction. In fact, I didn't even hear the news until three days after it happened. So it was easy for my wild guess to be way wrong.
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Old 24th December 2011, 20:33   #115
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Default Re: Mercedes S-Class Accident : Owner dead, Airbag doesn't activate and Court orders

markmytravel- As I said my heartfelt sympathies are with you and family to bear the sad loss.The incident was something out of the blue.
Since I had touched upon the death of Princess Diana and some member has replied, I seek your permission to clarify some erroneous facts put forth by the member on this thread, deviating from the main issue of tragedy and the resulting grief that has shocked and saddened you and family.The deviation is called for, as the car involved here was again a Mercedes "S" Class.
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Originally Posted by vikram_d View Post
This post is completely off topic. Since you brought up the Diana accident, did you know that the only person wearing a seatbelt in the Diana accident survived (the bodyguard if I remember correctly). Do a search on the internet. There are 100's of articles which will show you that Diana was not wearing her seatbelt and suffered the consequences. Also in that accident there are some claims about the driver being under the influence, but I don't know how true or false they are. Another interesting fact about that accident. Did you know that the car was traveling at double the permitted speed limit when it entered that tunnel? Also Diana survived the accident itself. She died in the ambulance due to the extent of her injuries.
-I do not believe that this is off topic.
-No one in the Mercedes was wearing a seat belt in the accident involving Princess Diana and others, though the bodyguard survived.
-Princess Diana died at a Paris hospital at 4.00 am and not in any ambulance.

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Originally Posted by vikram_d View Post
That being out of the way. No car company has ever claimed that they build cars like battle tanks. It is the people who review these cars give them such tags. Just because the door closes with a thud it becomes a battle tank.
-please read my post carefully. I have said "And the people talk about the battle tank like build quality of these cars." I nowhere said that car companies are claiming the "battle tank" build quality.
Lastly, I stand by whatever all I have said in my earlier post!

Last edited by anjan_c2007 : 24th December 2011 at 20:36.
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Old 25th December 2011, 18:53   #116
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Default Re: Mercedes S-Class Accident : Owner dead, Airbag doesn't activate and Court orders

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Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
...

However, for the airbags to activate, the sensor relies on driver-input i.e. sudden drop in speed due to hard braking. This is how the new airbag mechanisms work, I suppose.
....

Everything else in the quoted post is correct, but not the above - airbags do not rely on any driver input at all. They rely on accelerometer readings - once enough acceleration (deceleration) is detected on any sensor the appropriate airbag opens (unless it was switched off to begin with)

Crashes can happen without driver noticing (e.g. driver fell asleep) - airbags are still supposed to work.
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Old 25th December 2011, 20:38   #117
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Default Re: Mercedes S-Class Accident : Owner dead, Airbag doesn't activate and Court orders

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Everything else in the quoted post is correct, but not the above - airbags do not rely on any driver input at all. They rely on accelerometer readings - once enough acceleration (deceleration) is detected on any sensor the appropriate airbag opens (unless it was switched off to begin with)

Crashes can happen without driver noticing (e.g. driver fell asleep) - airbags are still supposed to work.
Driver input i.e. sudden braking/deceleration or a swerve due to a wild swing of the steering-wheel (driver input)

Sudden braking readies the airbag to deploy, if I'm not wrong. Sudden braking is because of the driver's input.
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Old 26th December 2011, 11:35   #118
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Default Re: Mercedes S-Class Accident : Owner dead, Airbag doesn't activate and Court orders

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Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
Driver input i.e. sudden braking/deceleration or a swerve due to a wild swing of the steering-wheel (driver input)

Sudden braking readies the airbag to deploy, if I'm not wrong. Sudden braking is because of the driver's input.
Put up links. It'll help end a meandering argument, and it'll either validate what you're saying or teach you that you need to find more links.

Mercedes-Benz TecDay Special Feature:* PRE-SAFE And PRE-SAFE Brake | eMercedesBenz - The Unofficial Mercedes-Benz Weblog
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Old 26th December 2011, 11:47   #119
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Default Re: Mercedes S-Class Accident : Owner dead, Airbag doesn't activate and Court orders

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Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
Driver input i.e. sudden braking/deceleration or a swerve due to a wild swing of the steering-wheel (driver input)

Sudden braking readies the airbag to deploy, if I'm not wrong. Sudden braking is because of the driver's input.
my understanding is that the the electronics have "readied" the airbag to deploy the second the key is inserted in the slot.
post that there may be some checks as to speed and whether belts are on etc.
if such criteria have been met, the airbag is ready to deploy , and just needs one final input, ie, from the sensor.
and no amount of braking will cause the amount of deceleration caused by a hit.
the ceramicest carbonised discs of amg'd vehicles will not match the amount of deceleration caused by stopping in 3 ft from 60mph when you hit a truck/wall etc.
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Old 26th December 2011, 11:55   #120
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Default Re: Mercedes S-Class Accident : Owner dead, Airbag doesn't activate and Court orders

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my understanding is that the the electronics have "readied" the airbag to deploy the second the key is inserted in the slot.
post that there may be some checks as to speed and whether belts are on etc.
if such criteria have been met, the airbag is ready to deploy , and just needs one final input, ie, from the sensor.
and no amount of braking will cause the amount of deceleration caused by a hit.
the ceramicest carbonised discs of amg'd vehicles will not match the amount of deceleration caused by stopping in 3 ft from 60mph when you hit a truck/wall etc.
That is true, but assuming you're doing 60 and you're 3 seconds away from hitting the rear of a truck. You brake really hard, the sensors activate and 'know' that there is an impact waiting to happen, and just when the car senses the impact, the airbags will deploy, and in the case of the S, the safety equipment ensures that windows (sunroof) and doors are closed in order to prevent flying objects and debris from entering the car and hurting the occupants.

Electronics ready the airbag, yes. But right before impact, when the car begins to decelerate very quickly, the sensors engage the airbags to deploy at time of impact.

And the brakes of a car are only as good as the driver. If you're 3-seconds away from hitting something while doing considerable speed, well, you just gotta say your prayers.

Last edited by suhaas307 : 26th December 2011 at 11:56.
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