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Old 30th December 2011, 23:58   #16
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Default re: Toyota Fortuner crashes, Air bags did not deploy *EDIT* Another similar case Pg.7

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Originally Posted by bblost View Post
IMHO: The crash guard in the front has done a good job of protecting the sensors.
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Originally Posted by bblost View Post
A crash/ bull guard should never be used for vehicles running on public roads.

They KILL pedestrians.
Exactly!!

You have put a local aftermarket bull bar on your Fortuner. There is no way the airbags sensor will get activated even in head on impact with that bull bar.

As mentioned by everyone Fortuner only has front airbags which in a rollover are not supposed to deploy.
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Old 31st December 2011, 00:20   #17
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Default re: Toyota Fortuner crashes, Air bags did not deploy *EDIT* Another similar case Pg.7

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Originally Posted by AvonA7 View Post
I am no expert, having said that, looking at the 2nd pics, if the front aig bags do not deploy, IMO, we are un-necessarily arguing on behalf of Toyota ! Sorry If I sound rude here.
Exactly my thought!

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Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
Exactly!!

You have put a local aftermarket bull bar on your Fortuner. There is no way the airbags sensor will get activated even in head on impact with that bull bar.

As mentioned by everyone Fortuner only has front airbags which in a rollover are not supposed to deploy.
Well, it seems that the bull bars could also be a cause of the air bags not deploying. But, I still somehow feel that the sensors should be more sensitive in case of such extensive damage with or without the bull bar. Moreover, before rolling over, the front impact was just behind the headlamp as can be seen on the second pic and the damage towards the drivers seat is extensive with the A pillar and the fender caving in. So, I thought Airbags should have deployed. Too bad if the sensors are only behind the bumper as in such cases of diagonal frontal impact, they become useless then. BTW, the impact also cracked the OEM alloy wheel.

Going OT, but now I really really do feel that Fortuner is way overpriced for what it offers. XUV at half the price makes even more sense now, with the 6 air bags all around along with all other safety features.
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Old 31st December 2011, 00:43   #18
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Default re: Toyota Fortuner crashes, Air bags did not deploy *EDIT* Another similar case Pg.7

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Originally Posted by wanderer4x4 View Post
Well, it seems that the bull bars could also be a cause of the air bags not deploying. But, I still somehow feel that the sensors should be more sensitive in case of such extensive damage with or without the bull bar. Moreover, before rolling over, the front impact was just behind the headlamp as can be seen on the second pic and the damage towards the drivers seat is extensive with the A pillar and the fender caving in. So, I thought Airbags should have deployed. Too bad if the sensors are only behind the bumper as in such cases of diagonal frontal impact, they become useless then. BTW, the impact also cracked the OEM alloy wheel
You can't have the airbags blow up on every small impact. That's why they are not sensitive. The airbags will only deploy on severe frontal impact and the main purpose is to prevent the body from hitting the steering or front glass. Not to prevent any other injury.

Moreover airbags deployment also causes injury to the body in terms of burns as it is like an explosion. The idea is minor injuries due to airbags explosion are ok compared to massive injuries without airbags.
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Old 31st December 2011, 00:48   #19
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Default re: Toyota Fortuner crashes, Air bags did not deploy *EDIT* Another similar case Pg.7

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Originally Posted by wanderer4x4 View Post
Going OT, but now I really really do feel that Fortuner is way overpriced for what it offers.
Can understand your point of view here.

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Originally Posted by wanderer4x4 View Post
XUV at half the price makes even more sense now, with the 6 air bags all around along with all other safety features.
Hhhmmmm ... I hope so, but within these few months only, many owners complained that the basic electronics failed expectation :
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...y-niggles.html (My "not so great" experience with the Mahindra XUV5OO W8. Too many niggles!!)

Really hope that above incident is more of an exception !

Similar Airbag incident in one of the most so called safe car -
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/street...rders-fir.html (Mercedes S-Class Accident : Owner dead, Airbag doesn't activate and Court orders FIR)

Last edited by AvonA7 : 31st December 2011 at 00:49.
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Old 31st December 2011, 00:51   #20
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Default re: Toyota Fortuner crashes, Air bags did not deploy *EDIT* Another similar case Pg.7

^^+1
The airbags will deploy only if the frontal impact sensors sense deceleration beyond a threshold value. The Bull bar has messed up the game here.
Glad that your family escaped unscathed.
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Old 31st December 2011, 00:57   #21
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Default re: Toyota Fortuner crashes, Air bags did not deploy *EDIT* Another similar case Pg.7

To me there are 2 reasons why the Airbags didn't deploy [these are already shared in the thread]

1. Roll over and no severe frontal impact. Looks like the A pillar took the beating.
2. Aftermarket bull bars !

Quote:
Originally Posted by bblost View Post
A crash/ bull guard should never be used for vehicles running on public roads.
Actually there is a bull bar sold by Toyota as standard accessory. Would it be OK to use those? Would the company have done testing with those to minimise impact to pedestrians in case of an accident? I have seen similar guards sold by TATA / M&M etc also thru their dealers.

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Originally Posted by autocrat View Post
I don't like this explanation, but I do feel we as consumers have to make correct choices and demand better.

Toyota has gone too deep into cost cutting on the Etios, which was targeted to be mass market, to keep costs low. However for an expensive vehicle like the Fortuner, with high GC and CG, and power, ESP should have been standard..
I should agree with your friend on the findings - guess he is quite accurate on those. And unfortunately, just a couple of you and me don't form the market majority who want good choices. We belong to the minority who want safety at "any cost", but are willing to forego some luxury for it. But my problem here is, even after doing all those cost cutting, did they price the car cheap? NO ! They want to make the max profit out of that too. Same thing goes for Fortuner. At 20L, they should have provided 6 Airbags & all disc brakes, ESP etc. They didn't bother - I don't think they will ever! Because - even if Toyota takes off the 2 Airbags and retain the price, they will still have 6 months waiting period in India.

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Originally Posted by AvonA7 View Post
We`ll come up with all the possible reasons for airbags not deplyoing and blaming the driver/owner and with our current judicial system, manufacturer do not care and customer will run from pillar to post seeking justice... end of the day, we the poor customer suffers !
Do you think this customer will even get the warranty honor? Before blaming the company and judiciary, let's agree that there is an "aftermarket" bull bar fitted on the car. This SOLE reason is more than enough for the blame to be on the owner. Had they stuck to the stock specs of the car, they had more chances of winning the argument. Again as multiple members told, the Airbags DON'T deploy in certain conditions.

The customers suffer here more due to the lack of better safety equipments. And if Toyota didn't bother to offer the required ones, the customers are the only ones who need to be blamed; for making a vehicle with few safety equipments at that price, a blockbuster HIT.

*******************************************

Question -- Is there any provision for offering Airbags on A pillar or front air bags deploying when A-pillar takes a hit? I guess this is the second incident I have read in the last 1 month where A pillar crashed and the Airbags didn't deploy; the other one being a Merc S class accident (if I am not wrong).

Last edited by swiftnfurious : 31st December 2011 at 01:03.
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Old 31st December 2011, 01:10   #22
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Default re: Toyota Fortuner crashes, Air bags did not deploy *EDIT* Another similar case Pg.7

Quote:
Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
To me there are 2 reasons why the Airbags didn't deploy [these are already shared in the thread]

1. Roll over and no frontal impact. Looks like the A pillar took the beating.
2. Aftermarket bull bars !



***Actually there is a bull bar sold by Toyota as standard accessory. Would it be OK to use those? Would the company have done testing with those to minimise impact to pedestrians in case of an accident? I have seen similar guards sold by TATA / M&M etc also thru their dealers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
Do you think this customer will even get the warranty honor? Before blaming the company and judiciary, let's agree that there is an "aftermarket" bull bar fitted on the car. This SOLE reason is more than enough for the blame to be on the owner. Had they stuck to the stock specs of the car, they had more chances of winning the argument.
I think here the issue is more serious, that is life and death and not just warranty claims.

I think your statements are contradicting, in the sense, first manufacturer offer it as standard accessories and next due to this accessory the safety feature failed ? (refer *** in bold above)

Quote:
Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
Again as multiple members told, the Airbags DON'T deploy in certain conditions.
Looking at the 2nd pics, still the airbags do not deploy, Toyota - better upgrade the sensors !

Quote:
Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
At 20L, they should have provided 6 Airbags & all disc brakes, ESP etc. They didn't bother - I don't think they will ever! Because - even if Toyota takes off the 2 Airbags and retain the price, they will still have 6 months waiting period in India.
.
.
.
The customers suffer here more due to the lack of better safety equipments. And if Toyota didn't bother to offer the required ones, the customers are the only ones who need to be blamed; for making a vehicle with few safety equipments at that price, a blockbuster HIT.
Agree.

Last edited by AvonA7 : 31st December 2011 at 01:14. Reason: edit ...
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Old 31st December 2011, 01:31   #23
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Default re: Toyota Fortuner crashes, Air bags did not deploy *EDIT* Another similar case Pg.7

Quote:
Originally Posted by AvonA7 View Post
I think here the issue is more serious, that is life and death and not just warranty claims.
True. Now who should we hold responsible here for fitting an after-market bull bar? Guessing the answer, should we conclude that the owner was NOT serious about the lives in the car? From the company perspective, should they take up the responsibility of the air bags NOT deploying when they know the car has been tampered with? Should we assume that a person who spent almost 25L on a car didn't know the functionality of air-bags and the DOs & DON'Ts ? The thoughts sure get complicated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AvonA7 View Post
I think your statements are contradicting, in the sense, first manufacturer offer it as standard accessories and next due to this accessory the safety feature failed ? (refer *** in bold above)
Will try & explain. The aftermarket one in the accident pics is different from the ones sold by Toyota. My doubt was whether the Toyota standard accessory is designed to be used with bumpers & crumble zones working as expected during the design of the car, which causes minimal damage to pedestrians if they come in contact with the vehicle.

Edit:: In the second pic, the bumper seems to be pretty much in good shape - no dents. So we can safely assume that the air bags sensors were NOT activated. Seeing the damage to the A pillar triggered my thoughts on mounting air bags on A pillar or air bags getting deployed on A pillar impacts.

Last edited by swiftnfurious : 31st December 2011 at 01:34. Reason: Adding "edit" portion
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Old 31st December 2011, 01:52   #24
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Default re: Toyota Fortuner crashes, Air bags did not deploy *EDIT* Another similar case Pg.7

Why people use bull-bars?
It messes up with Airbags and the whole crumple zone design.
Sigh...When we will learn?
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Old 31st December 2011, 08:02   #25
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Default re: Toyota Fortuner crashes, Air bags did not deploy *EDIT* Another similar case Pg.7

Fortuners are safe as steel, i have read/seen/herd of 4 such instances excluding this one and the mere fact that the occupants came out safe on their own legs is a testimony of that. In all the other cases the occupants have been safe always, and escaped with minor bruises.

On the case of airbags, there could be two reasons, one the bull bar, which actually serves no purpose at all, two the side impact and not frontal impact.
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Old 31st December 2011, 08:24   #26
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Default re: Toyota Fortuner crashes, Air bags did not deploy *EDIT* Another similar case Pg.7

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Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
Question -- Is there any provision for offering Airbags on A pillar or front air bags deploying when A-pillar takes a hit? I guess this is the second incident I have read in the last 1 month where A pillar crashed and the Airbags didn't deploy; the other one being a Merc S class accident (if I am not wrong).
Yes, curtain airbags are available in some cars. Definitely helpful, provided the A-pillar is not that bad in shape. For example, in case of a side impact, the curtain airbags can be helpful. But when we consider the A-pillar literally deforming beyond a limit, the airbags can be of very little help.

In this case, IMO, the side airbags would be more useful to reduce injury. But one thing I must admit is that the car did hold up well despite the crash. Remember, this is close to 2 ton monster and even after multiple rolls, the cabin in relatively intact. Very tough car indeed. There is no way we can doubt the safety of Fortuner IMO.

In the case of S-class, in the thread itself there are a few images with marking showing that airbags might have deployed ( they were uploaded by me when I thought that the airbags might have deployed and was visible in the remains of car ).

Adding an image of Curtain Airbag:
Attached Images
 
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Old 31st December 2011, 08:51   #27
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Default re: Toyota Fortuner crashes, Air bags did not deploy *EDIT* Another similar case Pg.7

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Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
Exactly!!

You have put a local aftermarket bull bar on your Fortuner. There is no way the airbags sensor will get activated even in head on impact with that bull bar.
Yes, a case were an addition for extra safety / macho looks intruding into the car's inbuilt safety functions. And even if there is a remote possibility of airbags failure, Toyota is on strong grounds here.

Last edited by vb-san : 31st December 2011 at 08:59. Reason: comment changed
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Old 31st December 2011, 09:10   #28
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Default re: Toyota Fortuner crashes, Air bags did not deploy *EDIT* Another similar case Pg.7

Bull bars / crash guards do interfere with the air bag sensor activation. There are also cases described in the user manual when the air bags may not be deployed. This is the reason why I'd installed front parking sensors, so that any chance of collisions may be detected and whatever I can do to prevent may be done.

ESP is definitely a good feature but is NOT a license to speed. There are limitations to ESP on its ability to get the car to stability, depending on speed, road, tire conditions, drivers concentration etc.

The Fortuner is definitely very safe & stable, else with the kind of crash you've described, there shouldn't be any survivors!

Last edited by nitinbose : 31st December 2011 at 09:14.
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Old 31st December 2011, 09:16   #29
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Default re: Toyota Fortuner crashes, Air bags did not deploy *EDIT* Another similar case Pg.7

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Originally Posted by wanderer4x4 View Post
This incident happened with my cousin when he crashed the Fortuner 3 days back. The vehicle skidded under braking on a long sweeping curve on the highway, glanced a roadside tree on the RHS, then toppled and rolled over thrice before coming to rest on its side. Now, the major issue is that despite extensive damage to the front of the vehicle, the Air bags did not deploy. Thankfully, all the occupants of the car escaped with minor injuries with everyone wearing seatbelts.

I am not an expert on the Fortuner nor have I ever been in a major accident where airbags were required to be deployed, but seeing such damage I am wondering whether Air bags should not have deployed even before such heavy damage. The RHS of the vehicle bore the major damage and yet none of the front airbags deployed. Or is it designed to deploy only during more severe damage. (Then it is outright unsafe) or something did not work in this particular vehicle? (Then Toyota's much touted safety and reliability needs to be questioned.)

I am posting some pics below for your comments and advice. Sorry about the picture quality. These were hurriedly taken with mobile at the police station.

Attachment 862236
Attachment 862247
Attachment 862239
Attachment 862248
Attachment 862240
Sorry if I am sounding like a Pompous old fellow here, but in the end it is all driven by a program coded in somewhere, most probably the ECU.

The frontal Impact sensors need to be activated, for the machine to qualify to deploy the Airbags, but since the first impact is a side sweep here, the speed of the vehicle would be reduced and maybe did not deploy or register it as a frontal collision.

Secondly,the huge bull bar on the front, is a Indian mod for the Indian Roads, which I am sure was not tested in Toyota labs. any modifications ruins the manufacturer's assumptions and it is but natural that the Airbags did not deploy.

The logical question is, should be be questioning the ornamental bull bar or Toyota's safety standards.
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Old 31st December 2011, 09:19   #30
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Default re: Toyota Fortuner crashes, Air bags did not deploy *EDIT* Another similar case Pg.7

Thankfully everyone is safe...

@nitinbose: +1. A tall body on frame vehicle needs to be driven in a certain manner...ESP etc. are just the icing in the cake.

Last edited by nilanjanray : 31st December 2011 at 09:21.
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