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Old 23rd January 2012, 09:36   #16
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Default Re: Idle ramblings due to extreme anger? About a hit-and-run with an old lady

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Originally Posted by RS_DEL View Post
How much are we at TBhp dwelling on responsible driving by ourselves and our family members, especially our young ones who have started driving or are about to do so? This is not just about following the law. Are we impressing on them the need to be more considerate and compassionate topwards the rest of the road users, especially those not as fortunate as us.
It's not just consideration and compassion towards other road users; it's basic road and traffic etiquette.

I know of 2-3 BHPians whose driving is blatantly rash; with no adherence to lane discipline and speed limits but when asked to drive responsibly, they say "they are in perfect control of the vehicle". Well, you really can't argue with such stupidity.

Gist of what I want to say : a lot of people refuse to believe they are doing anything wrong in the first place.

Another perspective to the whole kids-drive-immaturely thing, there's this 20-year old kid I know who has a big passion for driving and speed. Now the funny thing, he drives.. or rather, is forced to drive within 80 km/hr when he's with parents. But every now and then, he goes out for a drive with his brother just because the brother lets him "blow off steam" by taking the speeds to 3-digits; on a city road. In this case, there's a chance the father would have been surprised to know the kid was driving irresponsibly.

There are some things education can't teach you; you need to have that sense in your head. Now that, either comes through experience or through god's generosity.
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Old 23rd January 2012, 10:16   #17
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Default Re: Idle ramblings due to extreme anger? About a hit-and-run with an old lady

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Originally Posted by ghodlur View Post
This is the sad state of affairs on the roads these days. No compassion while driving at all. Can see a lot of vehicles being driven like F1 races and closely brushing off pedestrians/cars. These guys dont stop to introspect what they have done.
was to note the Manza number plates and inform the nearest traffic official. Let the law take it from there so that someone else would have been saved by that maniac Manza driver.
Agree fully. My response was more emotional than rational. The fact that the victim was a poor person made me even more angry - you know if you are poor does your life have no value kind of response. It was just a matter of chance she was the victim, it could well have been some one else.

Rational thing to do would have been as you suggested. Matter of fact my mother asked me if I had achieved anything by giving in to my anger. Her take was I should have simply called the cops and helped the old lady with whatever I could. Also the fact that the guy got away without being punished , he will most likely not mend his ways. Punishment as @phamilyman has posted is the only deterrent that works to stop future violations of the law.
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Old 23rd January 2012, 10:20   #18
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Default Re: Idle ramblings due to extreme anger? About a hit-and-run with an old lady

Very good post, libran.
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Originally Posted by libranof1987 View Post
I know of 2-3 BHPians whose driving is blatantly rash; with no adherence to lane discipline and speed limits but when asked to drive responsibly, they say "they are in perfect control of the vehicle". Well, you really can't argue with such stupidity.
I used to be on of those when younger! I guess the realisation dawned one day that when you leave no margin for error, any error however unlikely would cost a lot in terms of life and property. So I started making allowances for other people's errors in my driving. My philosophy to driving these days is: if there HAS to be an accident, let it be the other guy's fault, by a wide margin.

I guess after turning 30 and having offspring of my own, it hit me what my Dad had been telling me since I turned 18 about "defensive driving". He's a wise old dude, my Dad .

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There are some things education can't teach you; you need to have that sense in your head. Now that, either comes through experience or through god's generosity.
Absolutely. Only I think it needs to be ingrained in one at an early age, otherwise the realisation may never ocur till it's too late. I have people in my friends and family circle who still drive like idiots, even though they're old enough to know better. The best we can do is educate those we have some influence over about the merits of defensive and considerate driving.
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Old 23rd January 2012, 10:54   #19
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Default Re: Idle ramblings due to extreme anger? About a hit-and-run with an old lady

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Originally Posted by libranof1987 View Post
It's not just consideration and compassion towards other road users; it's basic road and traffic etiquette.

I know of 2-3 BHPians whose driving is blatantly rash; with no adherence to lane discipline and speed limits but when asked to drive responsibly, they say "they are in perfect control of the vehicle". Well, you really can't argue with such stupidity.

Gist of what I want to say : a lot of people refuse to believe they are doing anything wrong in the first place.

Another perspective to the whole kids-drive-immaturely thing, there's this 20-year old kid I know who has a big passion for driving and speed. Now the funny thing, he drives.. or rather, is forced to drive within 80 km/hr when he's with parents. But every now and then, he goes out for a drive with his brother just because the brother lets him "blow off steam" by taking the speeds to 3-digits; on a city road. In this case, there's a chance the father would have been surprised to know the kid was driving irresponsibly.

There are some things education can't teach you; you need to have that sense in your head. Now that, either comes through experience or through god's generosity.
Thats so rightly stated.
I am a 20 year old, and in case i drive rashly (which i usually don't), why is it that my parents are supposed to be blamed. It's me who is taking the call for such insanity.
And indeed the sense occurs naturally or worse, by experience !
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Old 23rd January 2012, 17:03   #20
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Default Re: Idle ramblings due to extreme anger? About a hit-and-run with an old lady

Thanks RS_DEL for your responsible action. And I hope the boy who was driving the Manza learned a bit or two from this incident.

On the discussion, of rash driving of young kids, and how the parents are responsible etc. While itís important to know your son/daughterís capacity and temperament to handle a vehicle, and if they have it in them to take the responsibility, there is no reason to deny them. I got my driving license a couple of months after I turned 18, and if someone then said that I should not be drive a car (or ride a motorbike) just because of my age, I would have been very upset. From that time until now, I have this habit of slowing down at pedestrian crossing, and halting up for people to cross the road (even if that result in excessive honking and abuses from behind)

I guess this kind of irresponsible behavior (as mentioned in the OP) comes from folks across various age groups. For e.g.; one popular bollywood actor was in his late 30s when ran his car across the pavement and killed/injured people sleeping. Responsible driving has to start from the day you get hold of the license, and a strict process in earning that will definitely help.

Slightly OT, in many threads, often we get to see comments like this:
1) During the xxx kms trip, I managed to touch the speed of 150-160 a few times, and crossed 200 once
2) One xxx brand car was poking me on the highway, and I showed him the might of my car by touching so and so kmph.

Not doubting the abilities of the guys who posted comments of above nature, but I personally find it as irresponsible as posting speedometer picture with triple digit speeds. Especially since these speeds are not allowed in even countries with better infrastructure.
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Old 23rd January 2012, 20:08   #21
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Default Re: Idle ramblings due to extreme anger? About a hit-and-run with an old lady

Well, when I started driving at 18 I was always out for high revving, high speed action (even though I never drove rash, honestly). Used to have several fights with Dad who used to keep yelling at me to slow down and treat everyone else on the road as fools who didnt know what they were doing (in order to keep myself alert and cautious).

Now after a few years of staying abroad and coming back and realizing that majority of motorists are indeed fools, I have completely sobered down and I am 23 (its never too early). In fact I feel rather proud of this change (*touchwood*).

Rash driving has no age barriers, youngster in their late teens and 20's are often restricted when their parents are around and feel the need to blow of steam(as libran said) when alone without realising the impact that it could have. People in their 30s and so on drive rash because they dont know any better even though they should.

Its always the concept that rash drivers think that ' oh I am in control of the vehicle at all times' and ' oh people and other motorists will move away when they see me coming'.

In the case of the OP, if the person driving wasn't a scared 20 year old (who had no clue what he was doing) things could have been much worse and of course ' you dont know who I am' would come into play.

Parents cant necessarily be blamed. More often than not youngsters in todays age are quite different in their house and outside their house. Its a realisation which should come from basic common sense but this is pretty much uncommon. Its only when something happens that someone thinks ' oh wait a minute, was it because I was driving irresponsibly?'. Unfortunately, sometimes this is also does not happen and people in an accident think its the other persons fault since they strongly believe they couldnt have made any mistake.

The only solution as I said before is, treat everyone else on the road as imbiciles and as noopster said, make sure that in an event accident strikes, its the other persons fault by a wide margin.
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Old 21st February 2012, 15:52   #22
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Default Re: Idle ramblings due to extreme anger? About a hit-and-run with an old lady

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Originally Posted by RS_DEL View Post
I pulled up alongside him and signalled him to stop. I shouted at him "stop you hit an old woman". By this time another motorist who had witnessed this also joined me in the chase. We finally cornered the Manza. The driver of the Manza was a young man of 20, son of a retired Railways official. Now he was literally crying that the old lady was at fault. The other driver who helped me chase this vehicle, got furious at this and was about to hit the kid. I stopped him from doing so. I confirmed from the other driver that the old lady was saved. It was then my mother intervened and said talk to this boy's father since no major harm was done and let him go.
I am sorry but I cannot support this kind of bullying. Chasing? Cornering? Bullying? Hitting? Harassing family? Who in the world gave you the mandate to do this? The right thing to do would be take down his number and call 100. End of.

People like you are the reason why people run away after accidents. What you did was the dictionary definition of mob behavior. If not for experiences like these people would be more compassionate and help victims. These days no matter whose fault it actually is, there are always people who have nothing to do with the incident who will not miss any opportunity to bully, hit, abuse, extort, harass people.
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Old 21st February 2012, 16:11   #23
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Default Re: Idle ramblings due to extreme anger? About a hit-and-run with an old lady

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Originally Posted by Abhinav.Daos View Post
I am sorry but I cannot support this kind of bullying. Chasing? Cornering? Bullying? Hitting? Harassing family? Who in the world gave you the mandate to do this? The right thing to do would be take down his number and call 100. End of.

People like you are the reason why people run away after accidents. What you did was the dictionary definition of mob behavior. If not for experiences like these people would be more compassionate and help victims. These days no matter whose fault it actually is, there are always people who have nothing to do with the incident who will not miss any opportunity to bully, hit, abuse, extort, harass people.
Totally disagree.

On the roads, just like everywhere else in life, there are things that are "socially unacceptable" and "illegal". When someone does an action that we think is illegal, then there are mechanisms like police, courts, tribunals, etc to take care of the alleged offender.
But when someone does something that is socially unacceptable - like drive callously (even if perfectly legal), then it is up to everyone else in society to let the person know that such behaviour is not acceptable.

A stern scolding from a stranger is, under such circumstances, usually much more effective than calling the cops. When cops get involved in such scenarios of socially unacceptable behaviour, the perpetrator usually ends up feeling victimised, which achieves basically nothing.

Last edited by KiloAlpha : 21st February 2012 at 16:13. Reason: clarity
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Old 21st February 2012, 17:00   #24
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Default Re: Idle ramblings due to extreme anger? About a hit-and-run with an old lady

Would you do the same thing in the USA or a foreign country if you witnessed something similar or would you call the cops? I would be really surprised is I see a "YES" answer.

Unfortunately, in our country, a majority of people think it's ok to take the law into their own hands & endanger even some more lives.

I have seen mobs beating up riders\drivers for knocking down someone or being involved in a accident, whoever gives anyone the right to raise their hands on someone else? The law is in place to prove someone guilty or not & pass judgement.

Last edited by mb_jg : 21st February 2012 at 17:05.
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Old 21st February 2012, 18:15   #25
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Default Re: Idle ramblings due to extreme anger? About a hit-and-run with an old lady

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Originally Posted by KiloAlpha View Post
Totally disagree.

A stern scolding from a stranger is, under such circumstances, usually much more effective than calling the cops. When cops get involved in such scenarios of socially unacceptable behaviour, the perpetrator usually ends up feeling victimised, which achieves basically nothing.
The reason why a lot of people do not stop when they cause an accident is fear that passers by will either resort to what you describe as stern scolding or, more often than not, physical assaults. I seriously doubt that a stern scolding from a stranger is an effective response. It certainly seems like the right thing to do - but Im skeptical of any positive change on the part of the receiver. On the other hand, if the culprit is dragged through the legal process and his time and money are involved - it will be a far greater deterrent than the most brilliant 'scolding' that one can deliver.

The biggest problem with the 'socially unacceptable behaviour' theory is that it is hard to fix the benchmark in a plural society (in the true sense of the word) such as ours. Sure - mowing down a pedestrian is unacceptable independent of demographic boundaries but if each one of us takes it upon ourselves to implement corrective actions, rather than report incidents to the designated authorities, there is no way the situation is likely to improve.

Lets not loose sight of the core issues
(1) Rash driving
(2) The tendency of motorists to flee after causing \ being part of a road accident.

My post is pointed mostly towards the latter.

You also bring out a valid argument regarding the feeling of being victimized. Thats because our brethren in the police depts end up treating everyone they take into custody or questioning like criminals.
What we have : Unprofessional behaviour from the authorities BUT petty punishment (fines) that are not really deterents.
What we need : Standard operating procedures when dealing with errant drivers including to-the-point language (this can only be the outcome of professional training), BUT fines that burn a sizeable hole in the wallet of the offender.
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Old 22nd February 2012, 11:37   #26
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Default Re: Idle ramblings due to extreme anger? About a hit-and-run with an old lady

As part of a responsible forum we should promote only safe driving\riding practices.

The intent was good, but the approach to resolve the issue was completely inappropriate.

Please avoid circumstances which may possibly, in the slightest manner endanger yourself or anyone else on the roads.

Safe driving everyone!!!
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Old 22nd February 2012, 11:59   #27
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Default Re: Idle ramblings due to extreme anger? About a hit-and-run with an old lady

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Would you do the same thing in the USA or a foreign country if you witnessed something similar or would you call the cops? I would be really surprised is I see a "YES" answer.
Every society has a different social structure and norms. Its really not fair to compare India with Usa. Do you really think we can even compare Delhi roads with the states? I would be really surprised is I see a "YES" answer.

You are right in saying that nobody has the authority to take the law into there hand. But I am equally sure no good is going to come by calling the cops. If that would have worked we wouldn't have rash drivers on our roads to start with. The cops are least interested in bringing maniacs on the road to justice. That is the reason why you always see Speed Intercepters placed right at the end of a flyover when the cars are on a descent and are 9 out out of 10 times bound to cross 50kmph.
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Old 22nd February 2012, 12:06   #28
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Default Re: Idle ramblings due to extreme anger? About a hit-and-run with an old lady

What society & social structure norms? Road safety norms is the same everywhere. Laws\punishments are to be enforced only by the proper authorities.
We choose not to follow it, ofcourse there is no comparison of USA & India, & I am not comparing either. I am just pointing out the mentality a lot of people carry on the roads.
I am trying to make people like you aware that chasing someone makes him\her more desperate on getting away, thereby putting even more people in danger!!! Simple to understand??
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Old 22nd February 2012, 13:51   #29
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Default Re: Idle ramblings due to extreme anger? About a hit-and-run with an old lady

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I am trying to make people like you aware that chasing someone makes him\her more desperate on getting away, thereby putting even more people in danger!!! Simple to understand??
Moreover behavior displayed by the OP is illegal. It amounts to stalking, criminal intimidation, mental harassment, violation of personal space et al.
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Old 22nd February 2012, 14:05   #30
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Default Re: Idle ramblings due to extreme anger? About a hit-and-run with an old lady

Agree Abhinav, but sadly most people do not understand these terms. Sometime back I had very nicely asked someone not to lean on my newly polished Fabia, & this guy had the audacity to question me on what's wrong in doing that!!! He was blank when I told him it's private property.
The ultimate choice on what you think is right or wrong is completely yours, although, use a little discretion on the logic\outcome of your actions.
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