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Old 20th February 2012, 17:05   #31
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Default Re: Nissan Micra Head On Crash with Truck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronix View Post
I agree, he had nowhere to go! But if the ABS would have saved him couple of metres on braking he would stopped right in front of the truck and not banged into it or even if he did he would have did so with very little damage.
Does the ABS allow you to retain steering control by ensuring the wheels still have traction, or does it reduce your braking distance (or in other words improve the braking efficiency) ?

If a vehicle travelling at 100kmph has a braking distance of 100mtrs before coming to a complete standstill, if the same vehicle were equipped with ABS would the braking distance come down from 100mtrs to say 95mtrs?

Theoretically the ABS shouldn't make any difference to the stopping distance of a vehicle, is what I think. It would surely help in directing the vehicle to a less dangerous zone/object since the wheels would retain traction. Or to take it further if the wheels retain traction, will they allow the car to roll forward and thereby actually increase the stopping distance?
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Old 20th February 2012, 17:20   #32
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Default Re: Nissan Micra Head On Crash with Truck.

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Originally Posted by honeybee View Post
Does the ABS allow you to retain steering control by ensuring the wheels still have traction, or does it reduce your braking distance (or in other words improve the braking efficiency) ?

If a vehicle travelling at 100kmph has a braking distance of 100mtrs before coming to a complete standstill, if the same vehicle were equipped with ABS would the braking distance come down from 100mtrs to say 95mtrs?

Theoretically the ABS shouldn't make any difference to the stopping distance of a vehicle, is what I think. It would surely help in directing the vehicle to a less dangerous zone/object since the wheels would retain traction. Or to take it further if the wheels retain traction, will they allow the car to roll forward and thereby actually increase the stopping distance?
You can find answers to all your questions in the ABS Discussion thread.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...on-thread.html (The ABS discussion thread)

From my experience of using ABS and Non-ABS vehicles, ABS does reduce your braking distance if you are on tarmac and also helps to steer away from a potential collition while braking, I am certain ABS would have saved that much trouble to the Micra!
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Old 20th February 2012, 17:25   #33
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Default Re: Nissan Micra Head On Crash with Truck.

Kudos aaggoswami for the help rendered.

From the picture of the truck, I feel that the occupants of the car got saved beacuse the car did not go under the truck due to less gap between the the ground and the body of the truck. Else, the roof of the car would have got hit and the impact would have severed the heads.
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Old 20th February 2012, 20:33   #34
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Default Re: Nissan Micra Head On Crash with Truck.

Thanks to people like you. Good work, Dude. Really appreciate your effort to save the people in danger.
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Old 20th February 2012, 21:27   #35
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Default Re: Nissan Micra Head On Crash with Truck.

What a gripping (but sad) story, aaggoswami! I was holding my breath through the entire narration.

To me, it looks like the Micra guy was "chasing" your Wagon R - possibly to get to the destination quickly. I have seen this on our highways too often. Sometimes, the "chaser" loses judgment trying to keep up with the lead car during overtaking manoeuvres.

If I sense that I have a "chaser" behind me, I either let them pass or just try to accelerate away (although the latter could make matters worse!).
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Old 20th February 2012, 22:38   #36
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Default Re: Nissan Micra Head On Crash with Truck.

Very nice of you to turn around and help aaggoswami!

The first thing i thought when i saw the pictures was "oh, no seat-belts". The typical head+windshield smash pattern on the passengers side told that story. The passengers seat cranked forward too wouldn't have happened if the passenger was belted up.

As for the driver - it must have been twice as awful to be hit in the face by an airbag too. Even if he looked okay on the outside, its his internal injuries that i'd be worried about (from the steering wheel as well as to the head).

Quote:
Originally Posted by jalsa777 View Post
The Micra does not have ABS.
Only the Petrol XV (top) variant has ABS; but the car involved in this accident doesn't seem to be the top variant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronix View Post
I agree, he had nowhere to go! But if the ABS would have saved him couple of metres on braking he would stopped right in front of the truck and not banged into it or even if he did he would have did so with very little damage.

Remember, he did brake hard smoking his tires and he ended inches away from truck breaking into the cabin!
True, this is a possibility. Lots of smoke coming from the tyres could indicate the wheels locking up, which is far from an efficient way to brake.

You're correct about ABS. A good ABS system will stop shorter than a good driver, (even on perfect grippy tarmac) and enable steering control too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mayankjha1806 View Post
ABS would have decreased the stopping distance only if the road was slippery in nature (because of either sand/water whatever), other then that on a normal non-slippery surface the stopping distance of a ABS enabled braking system and a normal system would be same.
You've got it the other way around. ABS might actually take longer to stop the car in snow / sand / gravel and other loose surfaces. (I can't comment on wet/slippery, as there are too many factors).

Most car manuals will tell you this (legal disclaimer?).

This is also one of the reasons why certain SUVs have an "off road" setting for the ABS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by honeybee View Post
Theoretically the ABS shouldn't make any difference to the stopping distance of a vehicle, is what I think.
Well, prepare to re-think. Do read the ABS discussion thread thats been linked to in anachronix's post above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
To me, it looks like the Micra guy was "chasing" your Wagon R - possibly to get to the destination quickly. I have seen this on our highways too often. Sometimes, the "chaser" loses judgment trying to keep up with the lead car during overtaking manoeuvres.
True. (Though not in any way saying it was aaggoswami's fault).

A lot of times, it becomes a mirroring game, and instead of the driver of the following car looking ahead and making judgements for himself, he just blindly mirrors what the car ahead is doing. This works fine for almost everything, except cross-roads and overtaking! When following, its always a good practice to follow far enough behind so you can see the road ahead and judge for yourself.

cya
R

Last edited by Rehaan : 20th February 2012 at 22:42.
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Old 21st February 2012, 00:39   #37
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Default Re: Nissan Micra Head On Crash with Truck.

That's an awesome gesture from your side, my friend! Hats off! Am sure that family will be thanking you forever for handling the situation. At that situation one would look for some mental support to over come the shock & you just did that. I would say you went one step more and arranged the ambulance & handled the crowd as well! This is what makes t-bhp a better forum if I ask you! You have set an example for all of us.
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Old 21st February 2012, 12:43   #38
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Default Re: Nissan Micra Head On Crash with Truck.

@all:
Thanks for appreciating!

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitwlele View Post
If i understood the situation correctly the Micra guy followed you in the overtaking of the 2 trucks. Is that right? I think that is also something which should never be done. Unless you have a clear view of the road ahead overtaking is a risky proposition.

Not wearing seat belts. is all i can do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by R. Kotwal View Post
This really was a straight on collision. It was fantastic of you to have rushed in to help. Seems that the hard breaking brought down the impact momentum,- and therefore lesser injuries. You said that the car did not brake in a straight line,- the pictures show differently as the car crashed head on during an aborted overtaking manuever?
Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronix View Post
ABS could have easily saved this situation here!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jignesh View Post
if the Driver & companion were not wearing seat belts, then why they did not hit the front windshield? If that would have happened the scene would be totally different.

Also Aaggoswami, what happend in next couple of days? I mean was the Car towed away? Have the occupants recovered from shocked?
Quote:
Originally Posted by esteem_lover View Post
What was he trying to do ? Maybe he was the devil that came to finish the unfinished business ? What's wrong with these guys ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jalsa777 View Post
The Micra does not have ABS.

A lot of times, my friends and others laugh at me when i wear my seatbelt while sitting on the back seat.
Its just pathetic the attitude towards safety in India
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
I have my doubts, as this was clearly a case of poor driving judgement. In the midst of this unsuccessful overtaking manouveur, the Micra would have one truck in front of it (which he finally crashed into) and a vehicle to his left (who he was overtaking).

Where would he go, with the steering capability that an ABS would give him?
Quote:
Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post

I'm afraid ABS will not correct the wrong judgement made by any driver. It's only a driver aid that allows you to have control over the vehicle.

Who knows, ABS might have prevented the car from crashing. But we shouldn't depend on ABS to 'save-us'. Rather, we should stick to our limits and understand that highway driving is a different ball-game.

Following or tailing a car that is already in the process of overtaking is never a good idea. And I've learnt my lesson too. Thankfully, I had the presence of mind to brake and maintain distance between my car and the bus that was right ahead of me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mayankjha1806 View Post
ABS would have decreased the stopping distance only if the road was slippery in nature (because of either sand/water whatever),
Quote:
Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
To me, it looks like the Micra guy was "chasing" your Wagon R - possibly to get to the destination quickly. I have seen this on our highways too often. Sometimes, the "chaser" loses judgment trying to keep up with the lead car during overtaking manoeuvres.

If I sense that I have a "chaser" behind me, I either let them pass or just try to accelerate away (although the latter could make matters worse!).

Well, I would like to post a few images from paint that would give a better picture of what had happened. The images would make things more clear.
The road was dry and very good road where even M800 would easily cruise at 100, and on this stretch one can find even overloaded Omni doing more than 90. I would rate this road quality better than the road quality of NE-1 ( expressway between Vadodara-A'bad ) now ( as the NE-1 quality has deteriorated ).

In my View, ABS would have helped for sure. Its only the wheels lock in emergency situations that one realizes the value of ABS. The Micra had almost shifted one lane while braking as the green truck which collided with Micra did move to the left as much as it could, almost on the verge of dropping truck's left wheels off the road. May be to cover up for direction the Micra driver had turned left as both the front wheels are turned on the left.

I have images of the truck and car's registration nos. but not uploaded for privacy ( the respective owners might not like it ), but would try to upload an image which would show that how much to the left the green truck had moved.

This image shows scenario just after I had completed my overtaking manouvere. I had to accelerate from around 110 to 120 for this overtaking. I had observed Micra becoming larger in my ORVM, but was at a distance so decided to make the move.
Nissan Micra Head On Crash with Truck.-micra-crash.jpg.

The green truck did move to left. Micra did not brake in a straight line and skid marks were there after crash.
Nissan Micra Head On Crash with Truck.-micra-crash-2.jpg
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Old 21st February 2012, 13:20   #39
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Default Re: Nissan Micra Head On Crash with Truck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rehaan View Post

A lot of times, it becomes a mirroring game, and instead of the driver of the following car looking ahead and making judgements for himself, he just blindly mirrors what the car ahead is doing. This works fine for almost everything, except cross-roads and overtaking! When following, its always a good practice to follow far enough behind so you can see the road ahead and judge for yourself.

cya
R
This is precisely the point I demonstrated to my 18-year old son when I took him on a long drive to Mumbai a couple of years ago.

I told him that highway driving was a different ball game entirely. Unlike in the city where one follows a 'herd mentality' of following the car in front, one needs to allow the vehicle ahead to complete his overtaking manoeuver, see if the coast is clear and only then attempt to overtake the truck.

The Micra guy was a city-lubber with no highway experience, in all likelihood.

Hats off to aagoswami for playing the role of a good samaritan.
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Old 21st February 2012, 13:49   #40
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Default Re: Nissan Micra Head On Crash with Truck.

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Originally Posted by vnabhi View Post
I told him that highway driving was a different ball game entirely. Unlike in the city where one follows a 'herd mentality' of following the car in front, one needs to allow the vehicle ahead to complete his overtaking manoeuver, see if the coast is clear and only then attempt to overtake the truck.
Well said vnabhi. Highway driving, and overtaking is altogether different that the city driving. This is the most basic fact that you should have clear vision of the road ahead for overtaking. Just blindly following the one ahead does not help. That was the reason for Micra crash IMO.
He saw Abhinav overtaking the trucks and just followed him. Abhi had clear space but the Micra fellow didnt and he could not see the truck.
He was not wearing seatbelt was the second basic rule not followed.
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Old 21st February 2012, 14:00   #41
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Default Re: Nissan Micra Head On Crash with Truck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
The green truck did move to left. Micra did not brake in a straight line and skid marks were there after crash.
Attachment 891817
This exactly points out that ABS would have saved the day for these guys.
ABS is not really meant to reduce braking distance, but its real purpose is to help the driver retain control of the vehicle.

In the above situation
As the micra driver was moving out from behind the truck he wanted to overtake, he noticed that there is a truck coming from the opposite direction and he braked hard.
This resulted in his wheels getting locked and the car kept moving in the direction it was moving when the wheels locked.
Even though the Micra driver turned his steering towards the left, the car kept going straight because the wheels were locked.
If the car would have had ABS, the car would have responded to the driver's inputs and steered left and the accident could have been avoided.

Most of the accidents happen because the driver looses control of the vehicle under heavy braking, and ABS is meant to solve just that.
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Old 21st February 2012, 14:50   #42
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Default Re: Nissan Micra Head On Crash with Truck.

This whole story tells me a couple of things

1) Always wear your seatbelt, wherever you are sitting in the car.
2) Unless you absolutely cannot afford it, buy a car with ABS as a minimum and preferably with airbags as well. I say this because ABS is perhaps more important in that it helps you steer as the wheels don't lock up under hard braking and it does reduce braking time and distance. The airbags are also important in that they help prevent injuries but we can debate what injuries the driver and front seat passenger would have had if they had bumped into the steering wheel instead of airbag and the airbag instead of the windscreen respectively. Airbags are most effective when you are actually using your seatbelts.
3) Always practice safe and sensible driving. Here the Micra attempted to overtake just because the Waggie in front of him was overtaking. Really dumb and potentially fatal.
4) Unless you absolutely cannot afford it, get a car with a 5 star safety rating. The Micra is virtually crushed till the dashboard, but the crumple zones have worked wonders in helping protect the occupants.
5) It is good to take a basic medical course. Here the Jain Saint lady gave the front passenger some powder to help reduce his bleeding. No doubt things like this help a great deal. There has been a lot written on the golden hour in an accident and if you can use that knowledge it will help keep people alive.

Full congragulations to aaggoswami for his help to the occupants of the Micra. This is the sort of thing Team BHPians should be proud of and should always try to do wherever they are.

My views on the accident.

1) If all the occupants had been wearing their seatbelts, the injuries would definitely have been less.
2) If the Micra had ABS, a head on collision would definitely have been averted. There may not have been enough space to pass in between the lorries, or the lorry in front that he was passing may have knocked into him from behind but things would definitely have not been as bad.
3) Airbags are most effective when used in conjunction with seatbelts and thus the person who is probably injured the most is the driver and second the front passenger as his head bumped into the windscreen.
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Old 21st February 2012, 15:02   #43
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Default Re: Nissan Micra Head On Crash with Truck.

Kudos to people like aaggoswami that reinforces my faith that people still do care. I have seen instances when people simply drive away or worse still just stand and ask what happened instead of helping.
The biggest problem I see here is that the driver panicked & simply froze. His presence of mind seemed to only tell him to stomp the brakes, which he did. These kind of situations require a super presence of mind which I feel that the driver didn't have.
Also this is something which happens on our highways day in and day out. The biggest problem is people just seem to drive like crazy on the highways & with a "I don't care a damn attitude". Not only on the highways I see this so many times in the cities also.

Sincerely pray that all involved in the accident are better now.
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Old 21st February 2012, 17:52   #44
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Default Re: Nissan Micra Head On Crash with Truck.

Kudos to aaggoswami for the way you have handled the situation without panic.

Hoping that the the occupants of the car care safe.

I request everyone to always wear the seatbelts.
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Old 21st February 2012, 20:44   #45
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Default Re: Nissan Micra Head On Crash with Truck.

Kudos to you @aaggoswami. I hope the injured people are fine now.
I had a question , if someone could throw some light on this.If the driver was not wearing seat belt, the Air bag should not have deployed.Does the airbag not deploy only if the occupants are wearing the seat belts?
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