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Old 14th March 2012, 10:18   #106
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Default Re: Road Rage? Go to JAIL! Mumbai Police sets an example

The person in City was honking right? Could it be, and I am playing Devil's advocate, that the honking was bit too much for the Agarwal's taste? I am in no way supporting them, but don't feel that the City owners were an innocent bunch either. Many a times I have felt that there should have been a way to remotely disable someone's horn! Even though Agarwals are jailed, the other party shouldn't be just potrayed as victim. They are the one who started it!
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Old 14th March 2012, 10:33   #107
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Default Re: Road Rage? Go to JAIL! Mumbai Police sets an example

Quote:
Originally Posted by ani_meher View Post
The person in City was honking right? Could it be, and I am playing Devil's advocate, that the honking was bit too much for the Agarwal's taste? I am in no way supporting them, but don't feel that the City owners were an innocent bunch either. Many a times I have felt that there should have been a way to remotely disable someone's horn! Even though Agarwals are jailed, the other party shouldn't be just potrayed as victim. They are the one who started it!
Hello,

Legally your point is valid because the Honda City driver might have "provoked" the Swift owner.
However the City driver did not cause any physical harm nor did he have any intent to do so. So he is on the safer side.
Since the Agarwals attacked with intent their case is weak.
It would be interesting to see under which legal section / code the offenders were arrested.

Thank you.
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Old 14th March 2012, 11:14   #108
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Default Re: Road Rage? Go to JAIL! Mumbai Police sets an example

Great initiative and they must persist with it WITHOUT biases !!
A lot easier said than done ofcourse.
Money talks and i agree with the fact that in 99% of the cases the fellow with the bigger set of wheels will be made the scapegoat.
Expensive cars in our country come with their own set of liabilities , painful maintenance bills apart !
Make an example out of this baap-beta duo and spread the word that no nonsense would be tolerated.
Most notably , keep at it !
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Old 14th March 2012, 11:26   #109
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Default Re: Road Rage? Go to JAIL! Mumbai Police sets an example

Quote:
Originally Posted by ani_meher View Post
Even though Agarwals are jailed, the other party shouldn't be just potrayed as victim. They are the one who started it!
This is debatable as anyone on the street will say that honking cannot be equated to ramming a car into another on purpose. But consistent loud honking itself can be an irritant and needs to be curbed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darsa View Post
It would be interesting to see under which legal section / code the offenders were arrested.
Section/ code is mentioned in the opening post. Damaging property is applied perfectly, but I am not sure of attempt to murder. Does reversing a car into another account for attempt to murder? I am not a legal expert but just wonder why this section would be applied by the cops.

Did the Agarwals behave rudely with the cops or reverse into their patrol vehicle too?!
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Old 14th March 2012, 11:31   #110
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Default Re: Road Rage? Go to JAIL! Mumbai Police sets an example

The Agarwals might have done something to the Police or in front of them to put the 'attempt to murder' charge. Will they be able to prove this?
The society is getting impatient and if law enforcement is done at the basic level, extremities could be avoided.
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Old 14th March 2012, 12:03   #111
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Default Re: Road Rage? Go to JAIL! Mumbai Police sets an example

Well the Agarwals also pulled the owner of the city out and were beating him. Also I see a member saying that the city owner initiated it by his honking, however my opinion is come what may you cannot get voilent and take the law in your hands.
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Old 14th March 2012, 12:11   #112
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Default Re: Road Rage? Go to JAIL! Mumbai Police sets an example

Quote:
Originally Posted by darsa View Post
Hello,

Legally your point is valid because the Honda City driver might have "provoked" the Swift owner.
However the City driver did not cause any physical harm nor did he have any intent to do so. So he is on the safer side.
Since the Agarwals attacked with intent their case is weak.
It would be interesting to see under which legal section / code the offenders were arrested.

Thank you.
From GTO's opening post:

The Aggarwals were taken into custody and charged with IPC Sections 307 (attempt to murder), 504 (intentional breach of peace), 279 (rash driving) and 427 (causing damage to property). They have been remanded in police custody till Wednesday.
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Old 14th March 2012, 12:29   #113
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Default Re: Road Rage? Go to JAIL! Mumbai Police sets an example

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh1979 View Post
From GTO's opening post:

The Aggarwals were taken into custody and charged with IPC Sections 307 (attempt to murder), 504 (intentional breach of peace), 279 (rash driving) and 427 (causing damage to property). They have been remanded in police custody till Wednesday.
Hello ssh1979,

Apologies for not going through the opening post completely.

Since 504 and 427 have been applied the police claim that the act was intentional. 307 will eventually be dropped.

I am sure the defence lawyers will claim that the Honda City driver provoked the Swift owners.

Please note that I am not a lawyer. However there are a number of lawyers in my family and some of my friends are also lawyers.

Thank you
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Old 14th March 2012, 14:58   #114
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Default Re: Road Rage? Go to JAIL! Mumbai Police sets an example

Good action taken by the police, but only because they were passing by when the incident was taking place. Otherwise, it would follow the usual course: Abuses, a few slaps, crowd of onlookers and finally disperse when everyone gets tired.

In my opinion, road rage springs from:
1) Total indiscipline on the road.
2) Extremely high population (and therefore traffic) density.
3) Stressful lifestyle
4) Increasing number of goons and their cronies on the road. Every other person is a 'bhai' these days.
5) Playing Angry Birds too often.

Of course, there will be a lot of other reasons.

There has to be an overall drive by the police to bring about better discipline on the roads. Things like fines for needless honking, driving with the high beam on, slow vehicles blocking the fast lane on highways, wrong entry etc. Of course, we can't have cops all over the place, but maybe a few such traffic discipline squads moving around various areas of the city.
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Old 14th March 2012, 15:17   #115
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Default Re: Road Rage? Go to JAIL! Mumbai Police sets an example

See this, carried in todays HT, they both are repenting and saying they over reacted.
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Road Rage? Go to JAIL! Mumbai Police sets an example-over-react.jpg  

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Old 14th March 2012, 15:48   #116
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Default Re: Road Rage? Go to JAIL! Mumbai Police sets an example

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh1979 View Post
I somehow find this hard to agree with and take in. An ambulance, of course yes. But for others, the road is for everyone to share and obey certain limits in speed and lane discipline. It is very hard, almost impossible to know if anyone is in a genuine hurry. Genuine hurry, even, is debateable. A call centre taxi ferrying its shift employees: genuine hurry? No, IMO.
To really understand what I meant by that particular point, you have to put yourself in my shoes. A person, who has toured 40k km across 10 states in India on his Motorcycle. I mean someone like an Ani Meher or a Bblost would never disagree with me on point #3 (even though Aargee and Nav75 wouldn't since they never seem to agree with me on anything ). No matter how beautifully I explain it here, you will not get what I wrote as long as you don't ride(not Drive) 1500km in 4 days in the direction of your choice (not in circles ) on a sub 500cc Made in India motorcycle. A journey spanning all kinds of roads, 2/4 lanes, straight and corners, I mean everything.

When touring on a motorcycle, the first thing we need to leave back at home is our ego. There will be some people on the road who will be faster and many who are slower, but if someone does go ahead, try to go ahead, he has to be in a genuine hurry is what I like to assume. The point here is not that he might be racing or winning. The point when on a motorcycle is to reach the destination in 1 piece. And believe me, the chaos we have on our roads, even reaching a 200km destination ALIVE is an achievement to be celebrated. A motorcycle is the smallest and the most vulnerable vehicle on the road, especially a highway. If someone on a faster vehicle challenges me, I HAVE to give way. If somebody maniacally tries to race with me, I pull over for a drink since it is not worth the risk. Even if oncoming truck traffic pushes me off the road with a 1 foot high curb, I have to give way.

Having learnt to respect everything on the road, the dogs, the cattle, the wildlife, the small hatchbacks, the big SUVs, the heavy vehicles and last but not the least the pedestrians while on a Motorcycle, the fact that this behavior rubs on me whenever I drive a car is something I feel proud of. If somebody flashes + honks from behind looking for a way ahead, I let him go. As long as it doesn't slow me down, I don't mind getting behind this one person.

I don't care whether it is a call center cab, or a Radio cab or a private car. If one vehicle goes ahead, I will not be getting late by more than a few seconds. If however I have a compulsive honker behind me for whom i have no space to accomodate ahead, I would do what my brother does. Roll down the window and gesture him to fly away like a bird. Alternately, if this person is just a high on ego road rager, I am better off behind him rather than ahead.

Hope I have made it clear enough.
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Old 14th March 2012, 16:25   #117
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Default Re: Road Rage? Go to JAIL! Mumbai Police sets an example

I am sure 100% that it was Agarwalls' fault. The act of reversing and crashing into the car behind is a testimony to agarwalls' aggressive behaviour. I am sure they parked their Swift way too long, obstructing City's path. I see it all the time. People blocking your way and chatting over phone merrily completely oblivion to other road users' needs. And educational background is generally indicative of peoples' behaviour. An educated gentleman tends not to obstruct others' way. The uncouth, brash, uneducated, new-rich business/political class tend to behave like the roads are their dad's. They are the scourge of this nation. They will first hit you and then get out of their car and thrash you.

Look at the City guy. He is driving a City ( a humble decent family car ) and he is an MNC executive. As a general rule, he can't be aggressive. The Swift guy on the other hand is a transport businessman, a member of the loutish community whose day starts with %$#@ words. At least that is what I have seen here in AP. Most of the transport business guys are scum. If it is any different in Mumbai then I do not know.
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Old 14th March 2012, 18:04   #118
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Default Re: Road Rage? Go to JAIL! Mumbai Police sets an example

Quote:
Originally Posted by antz.bin View Post
To really understand what I meant by that particular point, you have to put yourself in my shoes. A person, who has toured 40k km across 10 states in India on his Motorcycle. I mean someone like an Ani Meher or a Bblost would never disagree with me on point #3 (even though Aargee and Nav75 wouldn't since they never seem to agree with me on anything ). No matter how beautifully I explain it here, you will not get what I wrote as long as you don't ride(not Drive) 1500km in 4 days in the direction of your choice (not in circles ) on a sub 500cc Made in India motorcycle. A journey spanning all kinds of roads, 2/4 lanes, straight and corners, I mean everything.

When touring on a motorcycle, the first thing we need to leave back at home is our ego. There will be some people on the road who will be faster and many who are slower, but if someone does go ahead, try to go ahead, he has to be in a genuine hurry is what I like to assume. The point here is not that he might be racing or winning. The point when on a motorcycle is to reach the destination in 1 piece. And believe me, the chaos we have on our roads, even reaching a 200km destination ALIVE is an achievement to be celebrated. A motorcycle is the smallest and the most vulnerable vehicle on the road, especially a highway. If someone on a faster vehicle challenges me, I HAVE to give way. If somebody maniacally tries to race with me, I pull over for a drink since it is not worth the risk. Even if oncoming truck traffic pushes me off the road with a 1 foot high curb, I have to give way.

Having learnt to respect everything on the road, the dogs, the cattle, the wildlife, the small hatchbacks, the big SUVs, the heavy vehicles and last but not the least the pedestrians while on a Motorcycle, the fact that this behavior rubs on me whenever I drive a car is something I feel proud of. If somebody flashes + honks from behind looking for a way ahead, I let him go. As long as it doesn't slow me down, I don't mind getting behind this one person.

I don't care whether it is a call center cab, or a Radio cab or a private car. If one vehicle goes ahead, I will not be getting late by more than a few seconds. If however I have a compulsive honker behind me for whom i have no space to accomodate ahead, I would do what my brother does. Roll down the window and gesture him to fly away like a bird. Alternately, if this person is just a high on ego road rager, I am better off behind him rather than ahead.

Hope I have made it clear enough.
Nice write-up but I guess I lost you. I was only saying that it is difficult to find out if one is in a genuine hurry or not. From what I understand of your post, you assume every speeding person to be in a hurry and thus give way, assuring yourself of safety and also not creating hindrance for others, leave alone the risk of accidents.

Now, that brings you here antz.bin: please take a look at my signature. I am just like you. I give way to everyone who is driving faster than me. I am defensive, sedate and full of throttle sloth, if you like. And let me mention here that I drive an SUV which by all acceptable standards can contend to be one of the largest in its class. I drive for pleasure and I get pleasure only when cruising leisurely.

The only difference between you and me are two extra wheels!!!
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Old 14th March 2012, 19:14   #119
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Default Re: Road Rage? Go to JAIL! Mumbai Police sets an example

Quote:
"Their lawyer has been threatening us with their contacts with some senior officers. Though they have admitted to their role in the incident, they are justifying it as a spur-of-the-moment reaction to an unpleasant situation."
This is my biggest issue with this whole scenario, and the so called repentance being shown today just comes across as a way to save face in society, I mean it is shocking that just generally moving about in broad daylight is now near fatal, this pseudo-oligarchic nonsense was not present in Bombay a decade back but today it has raised its ugly head, and how! I would request every one to read the e-paper version of this incident, it is way more detailed:
Article Window

Quote:
Amit Valinjkar (38), a consultant with an MNC in Lower Parel, was driving the Honda City. With him were his wife, their two-year-old son, his father who is a cancer patient and his mother. The Aggarwals took umbrage when Amit honked at the Swift blocking traffic at the busy junction.
Anyone who wants to say anything about the City guy honking from here on, I would request you please include a justification for ramming into a car that has a 2 year old in it.

I realize I have been ranting here but I guess its just cause of the sorry state of affairs, I mean there used to be a time when people from Bombay used to boast about how things hardly ever get out of hand here and how it is relatively safe but incidents like this are freaking ridiculous! If I have offended anyone on the forum I'd like to apologize right now but I stand by the fact that you simply cannot condone this.
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Old 14th March 2012, 20:58   #120
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Default Re: Road Rage? Go to JAIL! Mumbai Police sets an example

Thanks to Mumbai police for locking the rogues up. The lawyer who is threatening City owner should also be thrown in jail or better still, be given a thrid degree by cops. If such incidents are allowed to continue, Mumbai may also turn into Delhi region. Speaking of Delhi/NCR, things have gotten very rogueish and animalistic there. It has become a region of goons drunk on wealth and power and with an attitude that says "ye duniya mere baap ki hai".
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