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Old 2nd May 2012, 02:49   #121
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Default Re: Lone Women Drivers in Delhi. Be Alert. I am still too shocked.

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Originally Posted by Rajat View Post
With the kind of stories coming from Gurgaon-Mathura stretch day in and out (no offense to the region meant; blame it to the statistics)
Excuse me.

Firstly, her incident was delhi, not gurgaon. Then YOU are the only person who quoted mathura on this thread.
Can you please share the statistics you blame, or are you generally making stuff up as you go along?

a. There's no such data that you've quoted
b. I drive around often very late in Gurgaon, and cycle out at 5am often. Sorry to burst your bubble but such incidents aren't common in Gurgaon. Not in my experience.
c. I've driven Gurgaon-Lucknow almost 15+ times in the last 4 years. Yet to come across such a thing happening on NH2, esp upto Mathura. Or even hearing of such a thing.

I'm sure we can check with SS-traveller who'se done Delhi-Kolkata almost half as many times in the same period.

EDIT - like some other posters have said, such things happen nationwide. To blame it on one region just like that is rather silly

Last edited by phamilyman : 2nd May 2012 at 02:51.
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Old 2nd May 2012, 09:45   #122
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Default Re: Lone Women Drivers in Delhi. Be Alert. I am still too shocked.

Do not expect the official system to do anything. Remember what the CM of Delhi said a few months ago when a lady was murdered. Do not drive at night or have an escort. In other words, if you get murdered it is totally your own fault.

Last edited by Rudra Sen : 2nd May 2012 at 12:26. Reason: Removing that political angle for obvious reason.
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Old 2nd May 2012, 11:25   #123
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Default Re: Lone Women Drivers in Delhi. Be Alert. I am still too shocked.

Expecting the govt system to work is asking for too much, however we must raise the voice. Normally the police/system response is that we have received no complaint!The day more people start demanding better services, situation will change. At present we have a lackadaisical attitude which lets them get away easily. I tell you once you lodge a written complaint, the noose is around their neck. You don't have to go to local police station, Delhi must be having an online system, lodge a complaint there.

I recently had an experience with police, I mailed the local SSP and also lodged a complaint on the state police website about traffic chaos on a local major junction where there is a lot of encroachment and people do no follow traffic rules (Nor let others follow them peacefully)where no traffic police is posted, after 1 month I received a call from a constable attached with the SP that he wants to see me in his office! I said I don't have time and will see when I can visit, a week later I again received a call and this time he says OK, i will visit you as we have to show that we have contacted the complainant & resolved the complaint. He told me he needs a written statement that I am satisfied with the resolution whereas the fact is there is little or no action on the complaint, in fact with power cuts the situation on this particular light point has gone from bad to worse.

Infact, I suggest that get hold of email id of some senior police personnel and forward this thread to him/her. Use the power of team-bhp as a pressure group!

Last edited by rock75 : 2nd May 2012 at 11:27.
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Old 2nd May 2012, 11:32   #124
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Default Re: Lone Women Drivers in Delhi. Be Alert. I am still too shocked.

@rock75; You are in Chandigah where only a few junctions are chaotic. Imagine other cities where there may be no junctions which are NOT chaotic. Even in your case they wanted to do nothing except to close the file! Must have increased his 'Hafta'!

Also, in many places complaining may result only in increased harassment.
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Old 2nd May 2012, 11:53   #125
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Default Re: Lone Women Drivers in Delhi. Be Alert. I am still too shocked.

I have a hypothesis for this, chandigarh traffic is relatively disciplined only because of frequent challans and presence of traffic police at most junctions. However, this particular case was in Patiala, where traffic sense is totally missing in public and coming from chandigarh, I am afraid to drive!

Whatever you said is 100% true, but it's also true that if we don't raise voice this thing will never stop and we have to accept this as part of living in India. A sort of penance for living in 3rd world country! I have made it a principal not to accept system's shortcomings without a fight. I recently asserted and got a registry done without bribe despite the registrars attempt to raise stupid objections to wear us down.

It doesn't mean that she should fight the goons herself but report it to police atleast. Most of small thefts/crime go unnoticed as there are no complaints, we should increase their crime statistics (by reporting such acts)to such level that they are forced to act!
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Old 2nd May 2012, 12:21   #126
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Default Re: Lone Women Drivers in Delhi. Be Alert. I am still too shocked.

Sugeeta, just came across this thread and was shocked to see that it has been started by you! What a horrible, terrifying incident. Let me first tell you, that you reacted very well considering what happened. There are a lot of people who would just freak out and not know what to do or get out of the car etc. Though it is bad that the phone has gone, the important thing is that you are safe!! There is no doubt that the bus driver was hand-in-glove with the thugs. His unnecessary honking was a deliberate move to make you more frightened and tense. Its a very good thing you had the doors locked though. I wish the fiesta had auto-lock. One can never trust the rogues on our roads nowadays.
The bus scraping the Fiesta is horrible indeed. I can understand how you feel about this. Do you by any chance remember the bus number? If so, you can try writing to authorities about the incident. (Though I highly doubt anything productive will come out of it). If you don't mind could you post some pictures of the scrape and any other damage done to the car by the thugs?
Hope your commute over the past few days has been smooth & incident free. Be safe!
This incident serves as a reminder for all of us to remember to lock all car doors once we are inside. If you have a chauffeur please instruct them to do the same.

Last edited by carfreak77 : 2nd May 2012 at 12:23.
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Old 3rd May 2012, 00:42   #127
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Default Re: Lone Women Drivers in Delhi. Be Alert. I am still too shocked.

Sorry to hear about the incident. Thank you for writing your experience over here. It serves as a learning for many of us.

A friend of mine who learnt driving in US was told by the instructor that it is a good idea to keep the doors UNlocked in highways as it is easier for others to help if needed and keep the doors locked in the city. It sort of felt logical to me and I try to follow that. Not sure whether it is the right thing to do in India. I am not saying other countries are 100% safe but the amount of violence that happens in India is deeply saddening and the culprits almost always walk free. I just feel we are living in a lawless & corrupt land.

This is something I read in a defensive driving manual - can't remember the source. Even if you commit an accident and even if the persons life is at risk, you don't stop your vehicle if you feel it is unsafe for you to stop. You go to the nearest police station or any place where you feel safe and THEN report the accident. Same rule even if someone hits your car. You don't stop if you feel unsafe. In a lawless land I think this rule is golden.

Last edited by idofsuresh : 3rd May 2012 at 00:46.
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Old 3rd May 2012, 06:50   #128
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Default Re: Lone Women Drivers in Delhi. Be Alert. I am still too shocked.

This is becoming more common on Indian roads especially metro cities and their vicinity. I'm sorry you had to go through an incident as this.

Not to add more pain to your loss, but my honest opinion would be to not spend too much time and money into tracking and following this up. For formality sake, do the following within 24hrs of the incident:

1. File an FIR. Go to the police station with your IMEI number and bill to support your claim. The only reason the cops will take it seriously is after seeing the price of the phone, and expecting a "tip" once the job is done. A friend of mine who reported a case like this at a local station was insulted and sent away after he told them that his lost phone was only 5800Rs/-. Such is the pitiable condition!

2. Get a copy of the FIR, and file a complaint with your carrier company.

I do not know whether there are any Andriod apps that you have installed on the Note, that will help you in tracking. I'm no gadget freak, so I cannot help. What I do know is that the stolen phone market(or mobile underworld!) as I call it is pretty tech-savvy to get away from all sorts of tracking, especially considering the demographics of such markets. But, miracles can happen! Like how a friend of mine got her lost camera back after 3 months . No kidding.

Step 3, and THE BIG ONE: Try your best to forget about it, and console yourself by trying to get something better than the NOTE. That's my policy. If your phone comes back, you can consider yourself as one among the 1000 lucky souls in 1.2billion. If it doesn't, welcome to OUR CATEGORY with 1.19billion and counting!

NEVER EVER roll down your windows in a suspicious situation as this. DOORS LOCKED at all times. This applies specially to woman drivers. Whatever be the case, drive away. You can follow it up the legal route later.

At the end of it all, good lord, you are safe. And that's what matters.

Good luck!
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Old 3rd May 2012, 08:26   #129
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Default Re: Lone Women Drivers in Delhi. Be Alert. I am still too shocked.

Really Shocking Incident. Well the quote above by Memphis D is absolutely correct. My personal experience has been that the Cops had the cheek to ask me if I had stolen my cellphone and whether it had really belonged to me. Only when I pulled up the Circle Officer and revealed my identity that the stupid constable relented and filed my complaint.
The MOST important rule, whether you are a man or a woman is that you are safest in your car. Never roll down the windows even if there is the smallest doubt of a physical incident. Secondly, even if one has made the cardinal error of rolling ones windows down, keep the vehicle idling in gear with the clutch depressed just in case someone feels funny and sticks his hand in. THat way, one can quickly accelerate and move out of harms way. More tips coming,,, I've been trained in defensive driving and this is out of experience.
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Old 15th May 2012, 21:09   #130
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Default Re: Lone Women Drivers in Delhi. Be Alert. I am still too shocked.

Just came across this thread today.
I am shocked to read the various incidents reported in this thread. To be honest I never imagined such things happening in reality.

I would request the mods to make this thread a sticky so that more members can read and learn from these incidents. There are lot of lessons to be learnt from such incidents for all of us.
In my opinion such threads bring the true value of the forum and have a bigger impact than any other type of threads.
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Old 11th July 2012, 16:51   #131
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Default Re: Lone Women Drivers in Delhi. Be Alert. I am still too shocked.

There are two India's residing in the same geographic region.
One is the educated middle class/upper class and elite. This class is responsible for pushing India towards modernity and progress. Anything and everything which you and I see improving around us is because of this India

Second one is what I would term the 'great unwashed class' This class is responsible of adding on more and more useless population each year, involved in all kinds of malpractices and crimes and basically a lazy bunch of humans who expect to do nothing and yet be part of all progress they see happening around them. As long as there was a socialistic setup, they got away by means of reservation, government jobs, govt guarantees and the kinds. The moment we shifted to a free market economy this class had maximum problems. In this free market India this class would not get free dole outs and they had to work their way up the ladder so to speak.
Now we see the growing disparity between the haves and have not because most of the have not do not want to do a day of honest labor. So most of them have turned to crimes to get their way out. This is a big reason for increasing crimes we see around us.
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Old 11th July 2012, 17:11   #132
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Default Re: Lone Women Drivers in Delhi. Be Alert. I am still too shocked.

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Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
There are two India's residing in the same geographic region.
Now we see the growing disparity between the haves and have not because most of the have not do not want to do a day of honest labor. So most of them have turned to crimes to get their way out. This is a big reason for increasing crimes we see around us.
Sorry, this is OT but couldnt resist. Sorry to hear this from someone about two different India. But you are sounding like a politician or a one of those rich guys who doesnt like to see a poor guy, but he forgot that he has some or other way contributed to the state in which the poor guy is in right now.

No offence to you or anyone with such point of view, but with your perspective, you will keep on creating multiple Indias here, no solution to it.
This is going to take some time, may be a couple or more generations. I dont have much knowledge and cant give a lot of gyan like other people, but somehow I didnt like this and reacted, no offence again. My approach is to set an example to others and improve the things, as I said, it will take time, your kids will learn from you and others will follow sooner or later, but thats the only way I have known to work, agian just my opinon. You or me cribbing about the state of society or situation may not really help.

Last edited by Ketan : 11th July 2012 at 17:12.
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Old 11th July 2012, 19:01   #133
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Default Re: Lone Women Drivers in Delhi. Be Alert. I am still too shocked.

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Originally Posted by Ketan View Post
Sorry, this is OT but couldnt resist. Sorry to hear this from someone about two different India. But you are sounding like a politician or a one of those rich guys who doesnt like to see a poor guy, but he forgot that he has some or other way contributed to the state in which the poor guy is in right now.
Continuing OT.
Whether I agree or not with what apachelongbow has to say is a different point. what I dont understand is how any rich guy would have contributed to somebody else being poor. If anything, the rich guy would possibly create more employment opportunities for the poor through his expenditure on products and services.
I am no rich guy nor a politician, but I would like to understand the reason behind this statement of yours.
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Old 11th July 2012, 19:44   #134
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Default Re: Lone Women Drivers in Delhi. Be Alert. I am still too shocked.

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Originally Posted by Ketan View Post
Sorry, this is OT but couldnt resist. Sorry to hear this from someone about two different India. But you are sounding like a politician or a one of those rich guys who doesnt like to see a poor guy, but he forgot that he has some or other way contributed to the state in which the poor guy is in right now.

No offence to you or anyone with such point of view, but with your perspective, you will keep on creating multiple Indias here, no solution to it.
This is going to take some time, may be a couple or more generations. I dont have much knowledge and cant give a lot of gyan like other people, but somehow I didnt like this and reacted, no offence again. My approach is to set an example to others and improve the things, as I said, it will take time, your kids will learn from you and others will follow sooner or later, but thats the only way I have known to work, agian just my opinon. You or me cribbing about the state of society or situation may not really help.
Having said no offense and then attacking a point of view doesn't make sense. Anyways I am not offended by what you said

Yes the two classes/states are not something we have created, it was there from times immemorial, during Mughal Rule and British Raj as well.

If you don't like it its good. We all should not like this kind of division in the society, in fact it is dangerous as we see around currently, too many cases of violence and it seems as though the have nots are waiting to attack the haves. Do read up on street experience section here and you shall know what I mean.

How do we get rid of this division? I am not a politician so I do not have an answer. But the government's poverty alleviation scheme coupled with more liberalization is the path I believe will help lift people out of poverty. For a while until this happens we have to understand that the have nots will react in the same way we are seeing now. What is missing is effective law and order and a working police system.

What I said in the two India statement was there are this 'unwashed class' who do not want to toil and move up in life. It is not as if they do not get opportunities. It is that they want to exercise their almost right to take the wrong path and get rich quick. If we had a non corrupt police and judiciary, most of these crimes would not take place. I have no sympathy for someone who comes to Mumbai squats on a open piece of land, builds slums, then claims the land as his own. Sorry I pay my taxes and I expect a decent civil society to live in, where in I am not afraid to move about and my safety is guaranteed. Just because one is poor doesn't allow them to sleep on the footpath and then claim compensation after being run over.

Last edited by apachelongbow : 11th July 2012 at 19:50. Reason: added more rants
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Old 11th July 2012, 20:41   #135
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Default Re: Lone Women Drivers in Delhi. Be Alert. I am still too shocked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by selfdrive View Post
Continuing OT.
what I dont understand is how any rich guy would have contributed to somebody else being poor. If anything, the rich guy would possibly create more employment opportunities for the poor through his expenditure on products and services.
I am no rich guy nor a politician, but I would like to understand the reason behind this statement of yours.
Quote:
Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
Having said no offense and then attacking a point of view doesn't make sense. Anyways I am not offended by what you said

Yes the two classes/states are not something we have created, it was there from times immemorial, during Mughal Rule and British Raj as well.
I'm not an economist or an expert on this topic. However the mere thought about two India and one is doing good, while other is 'Bad' for the society is something cannot be accepted easily. You're "good" because someone is owning opposite badge "bad" out there. In Apaachelonglow's terminology, its "have" and "have" nots if I understand it right. I normally try to address the cause (why have notes!) and not the symptom (have nots themselves).

This word, 'two india' reminded me the movie Arakshan where they attempted to exhibit some of the aspects of 'have' and 'have nots' but were not trying to claim anything. I remember that movie leaving some impact and read some more about it in the news that the system we have is creating and extending this gap between good <> bad OR have <> have nots.

I just read a couple of things about poverty in India, I was surprised to know that we are doing better. The primary causes of poverty identified were casteism, reservation, license raj, excessive regulation, favorism and inquality.



Some of the points that I could read from wikipedia, all points to negetive effect on human and the overall ecosystem. I'm just adding what I read in last few minutes and that tells me its ok to attack the thought of two India where one is doing all good and other is just a 'bad guy'. So, I'm definately not of an opinion to support two India/Classes/States but more of equality fan. That can again be subjective, as I said, it will take generations for us to evolve to another state where some of these bad things will disappear and new challenges to work with and at the same time we can drive safe on our roads.

=========
Despite government initiatives, corporate social responsibility (CSR) remains low on the agenda of corporate sector. Only 10 percent of funding comes from individuals and corporates, and "a large part of CSR initiatives are artfully masqueraded and make it back to the balancesheet". The widening income gap between the rich and the poor over the years, has raised fears of a social backlash


Research has shown an inverse link between income inequality and social cohesion. In more equal societies, people are much more likely to trust each other, measures of social capital suggest greater community involvement, and homicide rates are consistently lower.

Health
Lower socioeconomic status has been linked to chronic stress, heart disease, ulcers, type 2 diabetes, rheumatoid arthritis, certain types of cancer, and premature aging



The classical theory

Initial theories stated that inequality had a positive effect on economic development. The marginal propensity to save increases with wealth and inequality increases savings, capital accumulation, and economic growth

The neoclassical theory

The neoclassical theory ignores the relevance of income distribution for macroeconomic analysis. It interprets the observed relationship between inequality and economic growth as a reflection of the growth process on the distribution of income.

The modern theory

The modern theory suggests that income distribution plays an important role in the determination of aggregate economic activity and economic growth.

The credit market imperfection approach, developed by Galor and Zeira (1993), demonstrates that inequality in the presence of credit market imperfections has a long lasting detrimental effect on human capital formation and economic development.

The political economy approach, developed by Alesian and Rodrik 1994) and Persson and Tabellini (1994), argues that inequality is harmful for economic development because inequality generates a pressure to adopt redistributive policies that have an adverse effect on investment and economic growth.
========

Last edited by Ketan : 11th July 2012 at 20:48.
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