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Old 28th January 2013, 19:27   #76
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Default Re: Things they donít teach you at an Indian driving school

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Originally Posted by mkpiyengar View Post
But on expressway when he is on right most lane, practically hogging it and refusing to budge, how can it indicate to pass ?

Yeah, I can go with your explanation in case of 2 lane carriage way with no dividers and traffic coming from opposite direction.

Cheers
MKP
Well that is the sense these drivers lack, so going by that indianised logic, he must have put on the left indicator
But jokes apart, it is the thumb rule here, and dont be surpirsde if you try and overtake him and he does not slow down or tries to match your speed
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Old 28th January 2013, 19:36   #77
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Default Re: Things they donít teach you at an Indian driving school

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Originally Posted by shridhar.s.i View Post
Well that is the sense these drivers lack, so going by that indianised logic, he must have put on the left indicator
But jokes apart, it is the thumb rule here, and dont be surpirsde if you try and overtake him and he does not slow down or tries to match your speed
By the way, that brings me to another interesting incident worth sharing.

So as I drove along the expressway after passing through the Toll Gate at Kusgaon towards Mumbai, I see this Mahindra bolero pick-up guy going merrily in the right most lane refusing to budge.

I signaled him multiple times to pass, but no response. Finally, I passed him from left, went ahead of him and slowed him down to about 80 kmpl and then rolled down the window and pointed him to the left lane.


My point being if he wants to go slow then he should stick to middle lane, to my utter surprise and amazement, I observed that he moved to the left lane, leaving the Right most lane to overtake.

Now, If i have to educate every single wrong driver by signalling this way, assuming he is ignorant, then my travel time would be 5 hrs. plus total frustration !!

This should be inculcated as part of learning to drive, during the license granting phase. No amount of heavy vehicles stick to left lane announcement during toll collection would help. However, it is a very good initiative to keep announcing people to stick to left lanes for slow moving traffic. Even if hand full of guys learn to follow the rules, the drive would be less stressful.

Cheers
MKP

Last edited by mkpiyengar : 28th January 2013 at 19:41. Reason: adding few lines.
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Old 28th January 2013, 21:18   #78
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Default Re: Things they donít teach you at an Indian driving school

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Originally Posted by Hayek View Post
Very interesting thread. The only rule that struck me as strange is the requirement that you reverse by turning around rather than by looking at the mirrors. I learnt to reverse looking at the mirrors even about 20 years ago. Not sure if that was right then, but in modern cars with a optical parking sensor (such as my Superb) or parking cameras, you get a much better perspective through a combination of the mirrors and sensors / cameras than by turning around.

As some people said, some of the rules for driving in the West can kill you if you assume they apply in India. For example, ... So even if you want to follow the rules, be conscious that others will not do so.
Hayek, the point about usage of all 3 mirrors to reverse the car is valid. The reverse-camera also provides a good view. Sometimes the mirrors and cameras provide a distorted view e.g. the ORVMs are convex and distort the perception of distance. When you physically turn and look back, it provides a distinct view not offered by any other method. Not trying to promote this method, just offering a point of view.

About the practicallity of the basic rules in Indian context, its a brilliant point. I am pretty sure quite a lot of folks would have given up reading on this thread after the first 2-3 posts because they belive its impractical in India.

I am planning to compose a couple of posts specifically talking about how we can adapt these basic things to the Indian context.

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Originally Posted by justwheels View Post
A well deserved 5 stars to the thread. Thanks a ton for sharing so deeply on a topic often termed as mundane in Indian terms.

It was nice to go through the rules in a nutshell and revise what is true theoretically. Unfortunately Indian driving conditions are so more diverse than the West, that it is good to know the rules, but is equally good to know the exceptions to each rule. Lane driving is beyond sanity in this country. Most of the traffic drives on the lane markings, I wonder why. (may be we should have a line marking in the center of the lanes too).

Nevertheless, a wonderful thread.
Thanks for the rating! The point about lane-discipline is bang on! I believe the basic Indian attitude of "one-upmanship" is the root cause. Most of us do not have any respect for other person's existance & rights. Given a chance we are all ready to sneak past and come ahead of others. Driving/stopping in the lane - exactly behind somebody else - robs people of the opportunity to sneak past and I believe that's why they stop off-center.

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Originally Posted by silverado View Post
SDP : A big salute to you for this thread, thanks buddy.

Forget comparisions between USA and India, even in Maharashtra itself drving patterns vary a lot.
....
Thanks silverado.

Its interesting that the pattern changes as per city are observed in US as well. e.g. driving in Manhattan or downtown Chicago is quite intimidating for folks from other places. Patience and courtsey levels are noticeably different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shridhar.s.i View Post
@SDP, indeed a very good thread, should be part of the induction process to TBHP
Rated it 5 stars
...
And yes, though we dont favor the parking sensors and a reversing camera, for me they have been a boon
1. Multiple times i have been able to avoid dogs / kids bicycles as the sensors manage to pick them up as obstacles
2. the Night vision in camera makes parking in low light very easy
Thanks for the rating Shridhar! Even I like the convenience provided by the parkign sensors and reverse camera in my current car. Once I was trying to reverse and turn at the same time. The side of the car came dangerously close to a pillar. In another second or so, I would have scrapped the side. Since it was to the side, the pillar was not visible in the reverse-camera image. The parking sensor did pick it up, but I believe (at least in my car), it starts beeping a bit late. I turned back and interestingly I was able to see the pillar from the last quarter glass.

I believe we all should try the various methods and adopt what makes more sense for our own car.

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Originally Posted by Orange GTX View Post
Dear SDP,

I must salute you for your genuine and earnest effort to educate the common people regarding driving and road safety. I honestly admit that I was not aware of many things which you mentioned.
I will definitely try to learn and implement all these measures.
Sadly, in India, the one who follows traffic rules is considered as an alien. We, as Team BHP can surely change the Indian Roads to a better and safe place for all of us. As they say, Charity begins at home.
Once again, thank you very much for your article. God bless.
Thanks Orange GTX for the kind words! I know the feeling of being an alien and getting all those weird looks from others when you are driving the correct way. I just forgive those ignorant souls and move on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdiSinghV12 View Post
A very nice, well put together and important writeup. Thanks and big up to SDP. Will try to follow evertything's that's written.
Thanks AdiSinghV12! All the best! It will feel weird initially and frustration is practically guaranteed when others barge in the safety cushion that you want to leave. Persist and you will notice that the nicks/scrapes/dents and near-misses go down significantly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpiyengar View Post
What does the following signal mean.
...Cheers
MKP
MKP, Indians have invented their own signal system. Never mind!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SujAce View Post
Hi SDP,
Excellent and Interesting Article. TBHP members should share these with friends and family and let them go thru' these once for better driving sense.
...
Anyhow, if right-minded individuals start implementing / following these traffic rules, maybe there could be a brighter day ahead.
Very well said, SujAce! If even a few start, the situation would marginally improve. Who knows, may be others would follow. I hope that I live to see the day when it reaches the "tipping-point".

Last edited by SDP : 28th January 2013 at 21:25.
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Old 28th January 2013, 22:06   #79
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Default Re: Things they donít teach you at an Indian driving school

Dear SDP and Team BHP Owners,
Regarding SDP's post on driving experience which he has very nicely presented, can i share the thread with Bangalore traffic police on Facebook ? Hopefully its going to increase awareness or refresh for few just like what I felt after going through your post and prevent accidents or increase safety. We need permission from you and also equally from Team BHP owners on this share. I shall copy paste the link to Bangalore traffic police and let them how important this is from my end.
Please let me know your opinion and correct me if am wrong since this is my first step and first post in team bhp after I have enrolled in this wonderful community.

fyi :
the link that i came across was
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/street...ng-school.html (Things they donít teach you at an Indian driving school)

Regards,
Pratap
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Old 29th January 2013, 19:06   #80
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Default Re: Things they donít teach you at an Indian driving school

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Originally Posted by pratap.pratu View Post
Dear SDP and Team BHP Owners,
Regarding SDP's post on driving experience which he has very nicely presented, can i share the thread with Bangalore traffic police on Facebook ? Hopefully its going to increase awareness or refresh for few just like what I felt after going through your post and prevent accidents or increase safety. We need permission from you and also equally from Team BHP owners on this share. I shall copy paste the link to Bangalore traffic police and let them how important this is from my end.
Please let me know your opinion and correct me if am wrong since this is my first step and first post in team bhp after I have enrolled in this wonderful community.

fyi :
the link that i came across was
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/street...ng-school.html (Things they donít teach you at an Indian driving school)

Regards,
Pratap
Pratap, TEAM-BHP is public forum meant for sharing knowledge. So it should be perfectly fine to share the thread. In fact I would highly encourage it. Thanks for taking the initiative!
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Old 30th January 2013, 20:40   #81
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Default Re: Things they donít teach you at an Indian driving school

Found a beautiful video in the following thread:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/street...ust-watch.html (Funny "Traffic Awareness" Video from Gujarat : Must watch!)

A must watch. For your convenience, adding the link here:


A very good message delivered with humour!

While we are on humour, here's one more:
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Old 30th January 2013, 23:02   #82
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Default Re: 3. How to handle emergencies

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Originally Posted by SDP View Post

Rear-ending
If you are stopped at a traffic light and another vehicle is approaching you from behind at a high speed, you should:
1. If possible, move your vehicle forward in an effort to give the approaching vehicle more room to stop.
2. If the crash can not be avoided, release your brake an instant before the impact.
Releasing your brake will likely result in a whiplash injury. on the other hand, it will reduce the impact on the cars (both yours and the one rear ending). I'd rather the cars get damaged.

can you please point out where did you pick it up from?
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Old 31st January 2013, 00:54   #83
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Default Re: 3. How to handle emergencies

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Originally Posted by vivekiny2k View Post
Releasing your brake will likely result in a whiplash injury. on the other hand, it will reduce the impact on the cars (both yours and the one rear ending). I'd rather the cars get damaged.
With or without your foot on the brake, whiplash injury will still occur IF the neck restraint of your seat is not properly adjusted or is missing. To minimise whiplash injury when you are aware of an impending accident where you are going to be rear-ended, push the back of your head firmly into the neck restraint, brace yourself against the steering wheel, and keep your head and neck absolutely straight (don't try to turn your head and look sideways).

However, releasing the brake before impact and rolling forward slightly softens the shock of transfer of momentum on being rear-ended. You don't get whiplash by suddenly letting go of the clutch and jerking the car forward - such injuries occur when the forward movement is much sharper, i.e. when your tyres lose contact with the ground and skid forward from stationary position, immediately on rear impact.
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Old 31st January 2013, 01:10   #84
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Default Re: 3. How to handle emergencies

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You don't get whiplash by suddenly letting go of the clutch and jerking the car forward - such injuries occur when the forward movement is much sharper, i.e. when your tyres lose contact with the ground and skid forward from stationary position, immediately on rear impact.
Not sure if you are agreeing or disagreeing with me, what I was trying to say is that the part in bold will more severe with brakes off as opposed to brake on, in the vehicle being hit. Whether they Roll, or skid forward, the whiplash is going to be there. Less in case of a forced skid IMO.

I would also like to point out that some cars have active head restraints which come forward in case of a rear end. I am not sure if resting the head against the headrest would be a good idea. In that situation I probably would do the same though.
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Old 31st January 2013, 06:48   #85
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Default Re: Things they donít teach you at an Indian driving school

Thank you SDP for this fantastic effort. It is essential that all drivers read, know and use daily the practices detailed in your posts and the accompanying videos.
The loss of lives on Indian roads is appalling and there are innumerable minor accidents which go ignored, some of which cause considerable injury and loss of time and work and money. Almost all are preventable.
May I suggest that, as a responsible community of car lovers, every team-bhp member should read and practice the principles detailed in this thread.
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Old 31st January 2013, 07:35   #86
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Default Re: 3. How to handle emergencies

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Originally Posted by vivekiny2k View Post
Not sure if you are agreeing or disagreeing with me, what I was trying to say is that the part in bold will more severe with brakes off as opposed to brake on, in the vehicle being hit.
Not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone, simply stating facts. Whiplash happens when the change in momentum (i.e. sudden forward acceleration) is very high - hold on to the brakes, and that's what happens (think: hard launches when you gun the engine while keeping the brake pressed, then suddenly letting go of the pedal). Whereas, in a car already rolling forward a bit, the acceleration force is lesser (car achieves speed more gradually) when hit from the rear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vivekiny2k View Post
...active head restraints...
Whiplash is related to how far one's neck bends backwards, not by how hard the restraint hits the back of the head. Active head restraints hitting one in the back of the head, the injury thus caused is inconsequential, compared to whiplash. Bracing is still the best option, since the neck takes a forward flexing much much better than a backward flexing.
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Old 31st January 2013, 08:38   #87
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Default Re: 3. How to handle emergencies

Quote:
Originally Posted by vivekiny2k View Post
Releasing your brake will likely result in a whiplash injury. on the other hand, it will reduce the impact on the cars (both yours and the one rear ending). I'd rather the cars get damaged.
...
I would say, if the impact on the car is reduced in this scenario, (assuming that the driver is braced appropriately in the car,) the impact passed onto the driver would also be correspondingly less.

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Originally Posted by vivekiny2k View Post
...
can you please point out where did you pick it up from?

Its part of the Arizona State Driver's manual, page 61.
http://mvd.azdot.gov/mvd/formsandpub...rmInfoKey=1420
Name:  Arizona page 61.png
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Old 31st January 2013, 19:20   #88
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Default Re: 3. How to handle emergencies

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Originally Posted by SDP View Post
I would say, if the impact on the car is reduced in this scenario, (assuming that the driver is braced appropriately in the car,) the impact passed onto the driver would also be correspondingly less.


Its part of the Arizona State Driver's manual, page 61.
Not necessarily. If car is damaged absorbing most of the energy, it passes less to the occupants. I will look at the link and supporting evidence. A lot of conventional wisdom can be challenged.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Whiplash happens when the change in momentum (i.e. sudden forward acceleration) is very high - hold on to the brakes, and that's what happens (think: hard launches when you gun the engine while keeping the brake pressed, then suddenly letting go of the pedal). Whereas, in a car already rolling forward a bit, the acceleration force is lesser (car achieves speed more gradually) when hit from the rear.
You are mixing up "car rolling forward" with "car staying still with brakes released". If you have an option to roll forward, by all means do it. but if you have no room in front, I would rather hold my brake hard and let the car absorb the energy than leave the brakes and let me be thrown forward when the impact happens.

EDIT: I found one discussion that supports my theory
http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/653...Auto-Collision

more discussions here.
http://ask.metafilter.com/18758/Rear...best-practices

Last edited by vivekiny2k : 31st January 2013 at 19:27.
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Old 31st January 2013, 19:36   #89
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Default Re: Things they donít teach you at an Indian driving school

I think by releasing the brake just before the possible impact will diminish the effect of the impact.

Whatever is the forward movement of the front car due to the impact is evolved from some portion of the impact force. If it is not rolling, then that much energy has to be absorbed by the front car, which will naturally be shared with the passengers. So the effect of impact will be heavier.

It is the same reason, that the side protective barricades are made with such a design that they can absorb more energy at the time of impact.

regards,

bbhavan
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Old 31st January 2013, 19:58   #90
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Default Re: Things they donít teach you at an Indian driving school

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It is the same reason, that the side protective barricades are made with such a design that they can absorb more energy at the time of impact.

regards,

bbhavan
That's for the benefit of the car hitting the barricade. But you give me a very good analogy to explain.

imagine you were sitting on top of a tall barricade and see a car coming towards you. Would you want the barricade to be rock solid, or flexible?

in this case your interest will be in direct conflict with the car's occupant's interest.
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