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Old 18th March 2013, 11:03   #76
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Default re: No-Honking days in India

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Originally Posted by noopster View Post
Well I agree 100% with Tanveer too. Though I myself am a very occasional honker much to the chagrin of my family! The key word is 'occasional'. The problem with a campaign like this is that it sends all the wrong messages. 'No Honking Day'. If some idiot is cutting across my lane to take an illegal turn, am I supposed to silently hit my brakes and risk getting rear ended?

Such campaigns are silly and there is no other word for it.
Very very interesting indeed. Wish there was more objective thinking rather than "Follow the herd" mentality around.

If the message you understood from the campaign, was that honking when someone cuts in front of you is Unnecessary, I'm afraid the problem with today's traffic (society) is more deep rooted than I imagined. A so called educated class's interpretation. Can't expect much from the rickshawallahs and truck drivers then.

So can I assume Team BHP is against the concept of reducing Unnecessary Honking? And such initiatives should be dismissed as silly and ignored?

Cheers
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Old 18th March 2013, 11:16   #77
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Default re: No-Honking days in India

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Originally Posted by noopster View Post
If some idiot is cutting across my lane to take an illegal turn, am I supposed to silently hit my brakes and risk getting rear ended?
It takes only a little bit of that extra sense that we humans are bestowed with to understand the true spirit behind the campaign.

The campaign nowhere states that you will be booked for honking. The name has been coined in such a fashion only to make it sound catchy. Calling it "Occasional Honking Day" or "Restricted Honking Day" would downright sound ridiculous.

If people are still unable to get the message right, this video should help!


Last edited by Warwithwheels : 18th March 2013 at 11:17.
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Old 18th March 2013, 11:21   #78
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Default re: No-Honking days in India

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Originally Posted by noopster View Post
Well I agree 100% with Tanveer too. Though I myself am a very occasional honker much to the chagrin of my family! The key word is 'occasional'. The problem with a campaign like this is that it sends all the wrong messages. 'No Honking Day'. If some idiot is cutting across my lane to take an illegal turn, am I supposed to silently hit my brakes and risk getting rear ended?

Such campaigns are silly and there is no other word for it. Many years ago in Bombay the cops had started penalizing every driver who 'cut lanes'. Didn't matter that there was a genuine reason to change my lane and I did it as a planned manouevre causing minimum disruption to others. I would be challaned for lane cutting.

This is no different.
I completely agree with you on the part that the campaign needs to be better defined.

However the campaign caters to only unnecessary honking ! And i think we all will agree that honking in order to avoid a collision is not unnecessary.

And there could not have been a better example than the Bangalore one you gave. The only difference in this campaign is that there are no fines. What there is is an effort to make people aware. The Bangalore campaign also wanted the same thing i.e. to promote sensible and safe driving but adopted a rather different approach by fining people straight away rather than making them aware about the same. This campaign on the other hand is making people aware !

Cheers

Last edited by Enigmatic : 18th March 2013 at 11:24.
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Old 18th March 2013, 12:32   #79
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Default re: No-Honking days in India

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It is agreed world over that safe sound levels are below 90db. On an average day, the noise level on Chennai roads is 130db. Some high traffic places like Guindy and T Nagar, register highs up to 142 db. That is comparable to being exposed to loud gunshots over and over again. And again.
142 dB?
142 dB!

Are you out of your mind (or who ever has measured/calculated this)
I have worked in a Refinery where we have Steam ejectors. (Supersonic steam flow).
The noise levels there are about 140 dB standing very close to the ejectors. (Same as jet engine - in jet engine the supersonic hot gases produce similar noise).
I've also stood next to Gas turbines (in refinery power plant) - which is the same as a jet engine.

Believe me, you cannot stand there for even a minute without becoming temporarily deaf (that means deaf for a considerably period).

I can not believe that a traffic junction can ever have that level of noise. Ever.

Last edited by alpha1 : 18th March 2013 at 12:36.
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Old 18th March 2013, 12:41   #80
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You guys are preaching to the choir. I already mentioned I am only an occasional honker. It would please me no end if people actually practiced no honking except when actually needed.

What gets my goat is that these basics- which need to be second nature to anyone with a DL- are supposed to be taught through these campaigns. "Do not drive on the wrong side" is probably a campaign that is much more needed than "Do not honk". Also you don't need to qualify it...an absolute ban is within the bounds of reasonableness.

And as astutely pointed out by the previous poster, using all kinds of cooked up numbers will also be done since it is in a 'good cause'. 142 dB indeed!
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Old 18th March 2013, 12:49   #81
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Default re: No-Honking days in India

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Originally Posted by gthang View Post
Very very interesting indeed. Wish there was more objective thinking rather than "Follow the herd" mentality around.

Can't expect much from the rickshawallahs and truck drivers then.

So can I assume Team BHP is against the concept of reducing Unnecessary Honking? And such initiatives should be dismissed as silly and ignored?
Cheers
I am with you on this gthang. Majority of TBHP may think that such campaign is silly but I am sure that there are some who think that such initiative is a positive step towards sanity while driving.
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Old 18th March 2013, 13:26   #82
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Default re: No-Honking days in India

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Originally Posted by alpha1 View Post
142 dB?
142 dB!

Are you out of your mind (or who ever has measured/calculated this)
I have worked in a Refinery where we have Steam ejectors. (Supersonic steam flow).
The noise levels there are about 140 dB standing very close to the ejectors. (Same as jet engine - in jet engine the supersonic hot gases produce similar noise).
I've also stood next to Gas turbines (in refinery power plant) - which is the same as a jet engine.

Believe me, you cannot stand there for even a minute without becoming temporarily deaf (that means deaf for a considerably period).

I can not believe that a traffic junction can ever have that level of noise. Ever.
So, exposure to some loud places has given your ears the calibration required to measure/guesstimate noise levels. Wow!!

BTW, when you were learning noise measurement, did you by any chance wonder about the frequency of the noise you were exposed to?

If a truck air horn can create sounds of 100dB from upto 5 ft away, why is 142 dB at a traffic junction with all horns blaring hard to believe?

Hope you realize that noise levels reported are calculated values with a lot of variables involved, and not just some dude going to a junction and measuring with a meter, or better yet, judging by his ear!!

Yeah, it's really not that loud and my honking is not going to increase it any. How else am I supposed to drive, right??

Cheers
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Old 18th March 2013, 14:19   #83
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Default re: No-Honking days in India

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Originally Posted by gthang View Post
So, exposure to some loud places has given your ears the calibration required to measure/guesstimate noise levels. Wow!!

BTW, when you were learning noise measurement, did you by any chance wonder about the frequency of the noise you were exposed to?

If a truck air horn can create sounds of 100dB from upto 5 ft away, why is 142 dB at a traffic junction with all horns blaring hard to believe?

Hope you realize that noise levels reported are calculated values with a lot of variables involved, and not just some dude going to a junction and measuring with a meter, or better yet, judging by his ear!!

Yeah, it's really not that loud and my honking is not going to increase it any. How else am I supposed to drive, right??

Cheers
No need to get irked up.
The bold line shows that people don't have much idea about how much power is required to actually produce the sound levels that has been posted.
Two 100 dB truck horns blowing together simultaneously in phase will not produce 200 dB!

Also, in case you are not aware, gas turbines and steam ejectors are not horns or whistles that produce only one specific frequency. The noise from those equipment is close to white noise.

My point was that the article mentioned in the OP has garnered attention by quoting an absurd sound level. If 142 dB is actually encountered in traffic junctions, people will find it hard to stay at that junction for a second without any ear plugs.

There is no one in this world who would not prefer the sound levels to fall to 40 dB on a traffic junction.
So don't take it as if people are not interested in getting the noise levels down.

Last edited by alpha1 : 18th March 2013 at 14:20.
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Old 18th March 2013, 14:30   #84
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Default re: No-Honking days in India

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Originally Posted by alpha1 View Post
My point was that the article mentioned in the OP has garnered attention by quoting an absurd sound level. If 142 dB is actually encountered in traffic junctions, people will find it hard to stay at that junction for a second without any ear plugs.
Can we please stop nitpicking on the finer details. This looks really amateurish on a matured forum such as this. Nobody except you has even looked at the number until you pointed it out.

Although I don't vouch for the accuracy of those numbers. I don't find it surprising at all, given the fact that a standard Air horn can emit upto 125 dB of sound.

If you guys have something worthwhile to add, please go ahead and do it. All these grossly off topic discussions will only dilute the spirit of the campaign.
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Old 18th March 2013, 14:37   #85
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Default re: No-Honking days in India

I bet the real reason behind this initiative is for their own peace of mind. CCTP are among the most reactive traffic police I've ever seen. In a city filled with traffic jams and diversions, the only time you'll see them is when they're fining people for sun films, helmets, speeding etc. Even when something goes kaput with traffic at a junction, nobody show up until the honking there from the hopeless souls stuck there become unbearable. Probably they're hoping with this initiative, they can avoid that too.

I never used to honk while driving, but after coming here, One hand of mine has constantly been in the horn pad because of all the idiots on the road. I can understand why there is so much honking going around, but they're trying to cure the symptoms here, not the disease.

I would welcome a no honking policy in a lot of places. Chennai isn't one of them.

Last edited by greenhorn : 18th March 2013 at 14:42.
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Old 18th March 2013, 14:47   #86
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Default re: No-Honking days in India

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No need to get irked up.
The bold line shows that people don't have much idea about how much power is required to actually produce the sound levels that has been posted.
Two 100 dB truck horns blowing together simultaneously in phase will not produce 200 dB!

Also, in case you are not aware, gas turbines and steam ejectors are not horns or whistles that produce only one specific frequency. The noise from those equipment is close to white noise.

My point was that the article mentioned in the OP has garnered attention by quoting an absurd sound level. If 142 dB is actually encountered in traffic junctions, people will find it hard to stay at that junction for a second without any ear plugs.
Did I sound Irked? Sorry, you must have HEARD me wrong.

So, 2 trucks of 100 dB will not make 200 dB. So, how many trucks, cars, rickshaws, etc. honking plus their exhaust will it take to make 142 dB at an instant which is what a reading of high usually denotes?

Sensationalism works in many ways. Some of it in disproving facts using irrelevant experiences as well.

Maybe it's all that high decibel exposure that you have, but I do find it extremely painful for my ears at traffic junctions when all the idiots start "teaching". I dont need a meter, a degree in acoustics, nor the Chennai police telling me how loud it is. I just know that it hurts.

Cheers
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Old 18th March 2013, 15:17   #87
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Default re: No-Honking days in India

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Originally Posted by gthang View Post
So, 2 trucks of 100 dB will not make 200 dB. So, how many trucks, cars, rickshaws, etc. honking plus their exhaust will it take to make 142 dB at an instant which is what a reading of high usually denotes?
Decibel is a logarithmic unit. So a gain of 10 dB means that the sound is twice as loud. 20 db gain= 4 times as loud. 40db gain= 16 times as loud. Consider that a passing subway at 10 feet is about 100 dB and a rock band playing in a nightclub is 110. 120 dB is the "threshold of pain" according to some link I googled up (am not an expert). It does not seem conceivable that any junction in Chennai has a 142 dB level for any sustained period of time.

My point was about the bad math, which in India people liberally use to justify any "good" cause. That's all. Especially the authorities. For example, there was a nasty accident at a busy intersection near my place recently. A speeding schoolbus crushed a young biker to death. After that the cops have put up boards with a speed limit of 10 kmph there. Even if you are going as slow as reasonably possible on that stretch you will be around 20-25 kmph. What sense is there in keeping such an unscientific number?

It's as if the person who thought up the honking campaign thought to himself, 100 dB doesn't seem impressive enough, let's go with 142. I like the "2"- after all anything with a round number cannot be genuine!

I have made my point and don't wish to repeat myself but let me close that it is my opinion that taxpayer money is better spent elsewhere, building infrastructure and setting up processes in place that ensure only good drivers are granted licenses, for example, rather than grant them to all and sundry and then sped on "teaching" them correct driving.

Last edited by noopster : 18th March 2013 at 15:20. Reason: Whoops got my maths mixed up! Corrected
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Old 18th March 2013, 15:18   #88
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Default re: No-Honking days in India

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Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
I bet the real reason behind this initiative is for their own peace of mind. CCTP are among the most reactive traffic police I've ever seen. In a city filled with traffic jams and diversions, the only time you'll see them is when they're fining people for sun films, helmets, speeding etc. Even when something goes kaput with traffic at a junction, nobody show up until the honking there from the hopeless souls stuck there become unbearable. Probably they're hoping with this initiative, they can avoid that too.

I never used to honk while driving, but after coming here, One hand of mine has constantly been in the horn pad because of all the idiots on the road. I can understand why there is so much honking going around, but they're trying to cure the symptoms here, not the disease.

I would welcome a no honking policy in a lot of places. Chennai isn't one of them.
(+1) - While this initiative is greatly welcomed, IMHO, honking can be reduced considerably along with campaigns on 'road sense' for the road using masses. Right from the pedestrians to the HMV drivers should be sensible on the road, which will obviously help the drivers to refrain from honking. On 16th March, when I read about this initiative in the dailies, I thought not to touch my horn pad along my journey to T Nagar enroute Mount Road (Approx 25 kms from my home) but could not restrict myself and ended honking almost 11 times during this trip.
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Old 26th March 2013, 13:14   #89
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Default re: No-Honking days in India

So, how did that go on 16th March ?

Whether initiatives end in success or not cannot be forecast before it starts. And anything done with a good intention is to be appreciated. I know some people did not like it, it is their choice, this is not a law. If it were a law, it would have been enforced like how the sun film law was enforced. Each one in this country has ideas about how to improve our life and voices them out loud. It is all said in good vein. This is why India is a free country.

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Recently during my 40 Km drive, two or three kilometers into the journey, the horn in my car went dead.

I was terribly shocked and I thought I would never be able to continue my journey at all. But better sense prevailed and I continued my journey in a slow pace making more calculated lane changes/ maneuvers.

The first two kilometers after the horn went dead was so bizarre. But as I continued driving carefully, I seldom missed using the horn. Remember, I had to drive thru' peak hour traffic in one the most busiest stretches in the country.

This incident made me realize that, more often, the other road users hardly notice our honking. Horns are mere instruments that give us a satisfaction that we rule the road.
Well, I drove my car without a horn for more than 11 months and with intermittently working horn for 3 years, so I know that feeling, it makes your other senses more sharper.
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Old 26th March 2013, 13:47   #90
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Default re: No-Honking days in India

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Originally Posted by esteem_lover View Post
So, how did that go on 16th March ?


I don't know about others. When I went to Saidapet from Besant nagar on 16th March for a small errand, I had decided not to use the horn.
On my way back, my left ORVM was side swiped by a tourist Tavera because some moron 3 wheeler suddenly weaved into my path and I had to maneuver into the left. Luckily both of us didn't suffer any damage and we continued on. If I had honked as I would normally in a crowded traffic, this would not have happened. People who drive large vehicles couldn't help honking under this chaotic traffic conditions as their large bodies can't be maneuvered fast enough to avoid a collision.
Nimble, highly maneuverable cars like Matiz, Santro or an Alto can be driven without recourse to a blast from the horn in our traffic better than a truck or a bus.

Usually in a residential area like Adyar and Besant nagar, I still end up using my horn for the construction workers, corporation vehicles and the autos who come from side lanes straight into your path. Unless you give a tap on the horn, you can't drive far in Chennai. Until they solve the basic issues in the traffic situation in Chennai, I am not going to wish away the small horn button.
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