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View Poll Results: Which characteristics of a car create the most fatigue on a longer, faster journey?
Vibration 11 7.43%
Excess heat 14 9.46%
Low frequency road noise from tyres 0 0%
Excess noise 7 4.73%
Poor suspension/uncomfortable ride 50 33.78%
Inaccurate or poor steering 3 2.03%
Poor cornering at speed and inconsistent handling 4 2.70%
Low frequency noise from engine/exhaust 1 0.68%
Lack of feedback from road/rubbery feel to car 0 0%
Poor driver ergonomics 38 25.68%
Poor brakes 2 1.35%
other - please state 18 12.16%
Voters: 148. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 7th August 2013, 22:28   #16
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Default re: What causes the most fatigue on a long journey?

I voted for Other. It is the manual transmission in my car that gives me the most headache on highways. Every time I encounter a slow moving truck/bike/autorickshaw on the rightmost lane, I have to shift gears. It gets really frustrating.

I feel tired after driving 400 KMs in India (Bangalore to Mangalore). I once drove 1300 miles on a weekend in US in 2 days, without any fatique (I had Kia Forte automatic). On another occasion, I drove 2200 odd KMs in South Africa in 2 days, and the only frustrating thing was the manual transmission of my Polo 1.4 petrol.
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Old 7th August 2013, 22:33   #17
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Default re: What causes the most fatigue on a long journey?

On a recent trip from Pondy to Chennai, fatigue came from the blinding high beams of the opposing traffic and the high levels of concentration required to avoid a disaster.

Thankfully I was in a butter smooth newish Verna AT

Last edited by Mpower : 8th August 2013 at 18:00.
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Old 7th August 2013, 22:50   #18
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Default re: What causes the most fatigue on a long journey?

I chose 'Other'


Consider this: After travelling for 100 km+ doing 70-80 kmph you are forced to do 10kmph for the better part of an hour because the expressway suddenly became Main Street.

You have to suddenly adjust and jostle for space with a few dozen other slow moving human or animal powered transports traveling on the 'passing lane' and often times headed right at you!
Add to that the condition of Main Street itself - encroachments by hawkers, potholes , no tarmac, litter on the sides - and you get the picture...
In my view , such conditions really sap one's energy (what little is left!)

Welcome to the Indian B grade town/city - an unavoidable aspect of many Indian long drives!

Last edited by joybhowmik : 7th August 2013 at 22:52.
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Old 7th August 2013, 22:56   #19
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Default re: What causes the most fatigue on a long journey?

Poor driver ergonomics it is for me. The first signs of fatigue occur at parts of the body where the ergonomics of the driving / seating position is not perfect.
  • Right foot, it was for the Chevy Beat; due to the positioning of the a-pedal, I had to strain my foot backwards.
  • Left knee for the Mahindra Major; heaviest clutch.
  • Lower back for the Baleno; bad back support and low seating position.
  • Right outer thigh muscles for the Vento; over projecting seat thigh supports hurt. Lower back too needs a stretch once in a while.
  • Neck for the i10; the old one have an integrated head restraint and we cannot bend back our heads one in a while.
  • End of the shoulder for the Micra; though this is the least among the whole lot. Higher seat height too helps a lot. Have driven the Micra over 12 hours a day without many stoppage for stretching.
If the tiredness is not because of the car, then the first spot takes blinding lights of on coming morons coupled with lack of street lighting. Horrible traffic sense among us takes its sweet toll too.
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Old 7th August 2013, 22:59   #20
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Default re: What causes the most fatigue on a long journey?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thoma View Post
Poor driver ergonomics it is for me. The first signs of fatigue occur at parts of the body where the ergonomics of the driving / seating position is not perfect.
  • End of the shoulder for the Micra; though this is the least among the whole lot. Higher seat height too helps a lot. Have driven the Micra over 12 hours a day without many stoppage for stretching.
If the tiredness is not because of the car, then the first spot takes blinding lights of on coming morons coupled with lack of street lighting. Horrible traffic sense among us takes its sweet toll too.
Wow, 12 hours. That's a long stint in any car - where was the journey to and from? You really get to know a car over that time! You are so right about ergonomics, I have removed the seat from a VW Golf and replaced it with an Audi one in years gone by. The car was transformed. The Skoda's seats could be better, too - I suppose Audi have to justify their steep price tag somehow, given they use the same mechanical parts!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
On a recent trip from Pondy to Chennai, fatigue came from the blinding high beams of the opposing traffic and the high levels of concentrations required to avoid a disaster.
Quote:
Originally Posted by joybhowmik View Post
I chose 'Other'


Consider this: After travelling for 100 km+ doing 70-80 kmph you are forced to do 10kmph for the better part of an hour because the expressway suddenly became Main Street.
The question is about the motor car and its characteristics, not urban geography, road design, town planning, other motorists' cars or human psychology. If roads were smooth, empty and straight then even a poor design of car may feel ok.

Last edited by FlatOut : 7th August 2013 at 23:06.
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Old 7th August 2013, 23:02   #21
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Default re: What causes the most fatigue on a long journey?

Well, then you need to be more clear about what you mean by 'other'.

Its vague & open to interpretation

Regardless, my point is that chaotic traffic is the #1 cause for fatigue in India.

Last edited by Mpower : 8th August 2013 at 18:00.
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Old 7th August 2013, 23:12   #22
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Default re: What causes the most fatigue on a long journey?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
Well then you need to be more clear about what you mean by 'other'. Its vague & open to interpretation

Regardless, my point is that chaotic traffic is the #1 cause for fatigue in India.

Fair point, although the original post does make it clear I'm interested in your car's characteristics.

It's not possible to alter anything about the first post or the title, so it stays unaltered - unless I bother the admins. The thread will be more interesting - we'll see who only reads the title of the thread and not the post and have an insight into people's other frustrations!
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Old 7th August 2013, 23:24   #23
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Default re: What causes the most fatigue on a long journey?

Many of us have experienced comfort versus discomfort on old and also on the newer generation cars. The power steering, engine NVH levels,suspensions and AC together with many other factors add to the comforts of a long distance travel. The old generation cars did not have many such features. The size of the car is also quite important.
A large car will take on all the odds on the road by its stride in a better way as compared to a smaller car.
The condition of the car is also quite important.If a car is in a ramshackle condition it will cause more worries and pain.
To discuss in brief about journeys by jeeps, the Willys/ JEEP CJ 3B and the CJ4A petrol jeeps, though petrol powered were not very comfortable for long distance travels. As I have used these for long distance interstate travels often, sometimes I used to feel that even a bus journey (there were no AC buses in the 1970's and 80's) would have been more comfortable.
Then came the Mahindra CJ 500D- the diesels- these were the most horrible and the NVH level can be rated as the worst ever in any Indian motor vehicle for personal use.Even a 100 km travel would rattle the bones and one would feel drowsy. Not emerging with a headache, would mean that the occupant was much more physically fit.
The Mahindra 540DP's were much better for both driver and passenger comfort, for their times.
About the Gypsy, the less said about comfort the better. Though the engine NVH and some factors are OK, the rear seat passengers are tossed.The two front occupants are better placed, but the Gypsy is also not a good MUV at all for long distance travel.
Come Boleros, things became quite better. Their ruggedness together with the car like comfort afforded by a utility vehicle in the Indian market was praiseworthy.
The Scorpio now mine, is more upmarket and a fit SUV for any amount of long distance travel. It is brute and rugged too! Its "Mahindra genes" sees it through the rough and tough stretches unscathed. It is extremely more reliable too.
Likewise, when a taxi driver changed over from a Tempo Trax to a Tata Sumo in 1997, I asked him what he liked about the then new Sumo? He said he used to get tired while driving the Trax for a few hundred kms. The Sumo was better and he felt fresh after arriving at his destinations.

Last edited by anjan_c2007 : 7th August 2013 at 23:31.
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Old 7th August 2013, 23:32   #24
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I somehow always find myself uncomfortable in other's car, while driving on a long drive. Be it my friend's car or my relatives, I just can't gel up with car, unless the car is exactly as mine, which rarely happens.

Apart from this, broken roads, poor handling cars, cars with poor ac, are the factors which irritate me most.
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Old 7th August 2013, 23:50   #25
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Default re: What causes the most fatigue on a long journey?

I have driven 900 kms from Delhi-Himmatnagar which has been the maximum I've done in a day. I have noticed while doing solo runs, the fatigue doesn't set in as quickly as compared to commuting with other people in the car.

I would go a little offtopic and say physical endurance matters too. If you're not in the best of health and live a hugely sedentary lifestyle, it affects your ability. I've been on both sides and noticed the difference.

From the 900 odd kms in a day (1450 kms from Delhi-Mumbai) when I finally decided to crash at Himmat Nagar the following were the problems I faced :

1. Mental fatigue due to 17 hours of driving.
2. Physical fatigue, specially around my right knee, due to constant a-pedal use.
3. Pain in my lower back, however the seats in the Beat do support the back well but still the pain due to sitting for long hours on the same seat.

Also someone above made a very valid point of how exhaustion comes creeping in when you enter a city/town. You may be tired on the highway but enteringa city where even a 2cm move to either side can brush you against another vehicle, really takes it's toll.

Also as unruly our highways are, there is discipline. When you enter cities and its chaos, the hour before you get back takes its toll on your concentration.
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Old 8th August 2013, 02:15   #26
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Default re: What causes the most fatigue on a long journey?

As AbhishekB86 has mentioned, I feel physical fitness is the most important thing for long drives along with the ability to relax while driving. I drive one of the most uncomfortable vehicles available (A Bolero 4x4 with leaf springs all around) and have a slipped disc, yet I drive crazy hours e.g. drove 26 hours non-stop from Phalut to Kolkata. Last year while going to Ladakh, we did Kolkata-Patnitop in 44 hours non-stop (except for bio and food breaks); and there are many more such long drives that we have done. So I have not voted for any of the points mentioned.

Last edited by BlackPearl : 8th August 2013 at 02:18.
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Old 8th August 2013, 02:19   #27
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Default re: What causes the most fatigue on a long journey?

It's difficult to ascertain which factor contributes the maximum towards fatigue. As per me, fatigue is a result of multiple factors working together. Even if we consider only the factors that are related to the car, it will still be a result of 2 or 3 different irritants combining and causing the fatigue. I would have preferred a multiple select option instead of single select. My selection will be (based on my car and driving experience)
  1. Wind noise (I have a Linea T-jet. The wind noise increases exponentially with speed. Can't prove mathematically )
  2. The road noise - especially on concrete roads.
  3. Poor ICE - I never realised how bad the speakers in my car are till I did a solo drive of 1000 KMs in a day. A better ICE setup with good music can help avoid the noise and stay more alert.
  4. Vibration - Luckily my current car doesn't have any vibrations at high speeds but the one I had before this (Santro Xing) wasn't known for ride quality. It was difficult to drive it for as long time/distance as I do in my current car.

Not sure how helpful this poll will be in answering your questions however, as an approach you might want to create a survey with multiple select options on the factors and then ask people to rank the selected options. The aggregated result might make good reading.
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Old 8th August 2013, 02:35   #28
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Default re: What causes the most fatigue on a long journey?

In the world of motorcycles, we have a saying, the ride matters only 10%, the rider matters 90%

I believe that firmly & that's the same case no matter we ride or drive. There're people who drive M800 fantastically for longer duration compared to someone who's driving a Fortuner.

Passion, endurance, concentration, diligence, patience beats everything else
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Old 8th August 2013, 03:06   #29
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Default re: What causes the most fatigue on a long journey?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlatOut View Post
Totally with you on that, we need to be on a psychology section of this forum though!



I've yet to find out how bad your roads are. Are potholes sharp-edged and more than 100mm deep? There were French cars around from the 1950s-1980s which could handle the most atrocious roads at high speed with little more than a distant thump heard - with little or no movement of the body. French roads in the 1940s and 50s were very, very poor - many English cars which went there apparently never made it back in one piece! Cobbled roads, poor foundations, roads in poor repair with the ravages of six years of war etc. made French suspension what it was.
Hi Flatout
I am not sure about the dimensions of the potholes but its generally a poorly executed expansion joint on a bridge or the tar between the section of bridge is worn out.
You are doing 120 to 140 kmph on an open straight highway and "bamm" you hit the expansion joint on the bridge.
Or you enter a rough patch of tar and you slow down to about 60 kmph or so and think you made it without downshifting but around the end where the good part starts would be a large undulation of the fresh patch of tar whose height would be too high then again same thing.

[/quote]
I know what you mean about heat getting to you even with the AC on full. This is due to being surrounded by minimally-insulated metal which is radiating heat - a heat which is much more effective than hot air. Cold air struggles, especially when at the relatively low volumes which come through the little vents. I remember some cars being so well ventilated that even in 35C (which is very hot for a Yorkshireman!) the car's interior remained acceptably fresh. Internal airflow to maximise cooling is something not considered anymore - the engineers assume AC will do the job.

One answer would be to insulate - in Australia and Africa there are Land Rovers and the like with a secondary roof, to keep the rays off. Combined with modern insulation, the situation could be made much more bearable. I wonder if reflective foil would make much difference when the sun is at its strongest? Little can be done with regard to the steep rakes of the modern car windscreen, although I imagine people do cover the large expanse of black plastic dashboard top with light-coloured cotton?

Commuting is an unpleasant form of Western life which the whole world seems to be doing. The internet is slowly changing things, but it is slowly. Long? A poor engine with its noise and vibration tires me after a little more than an hour and a half or 200km. I deliberately didn't specify 'long' - but we all know when a trip becomes a 'long' one. For me, in Northern England, I would call a long journey one which takes more than three hours or which is more than 650km. This is plenty of time for a car's true abilities, or weaknessess, to begin to show themselves. As the brain tires, every noise, vibration, discomfort and inconsistency is multiplied until you can reach the point where even a decent-enough car can feel like a clunker. This is when a genuinely good car begins to shine.

I once drove the six cylinder Mercedes over a long distance, at around 180kmph. It was a warm day. I then transferred to a more modern Audi of similar size and with more power. At first experience the Audi would feel the better car - it feels to respond more quickly, feels more comfortable and feels faster. It flatters the driver - but after half an hour behind the four circles I realised how inferior the whole machine was - it wasn't just me adapting. Although quieter and lower revving, the engine wasn't as smooth, the handling at high speed not as sure, the ride edgy in comparison to the Mercedes', there was much more heat soak from the engine and exhaust, the steering was far less precise, the brakes less sure, all the messages less accurate and with more 'white noise' to confuse and tire. It is under conditions like those when you really begin to see what matters in a car. Both cars were my own and in proper working order.

I'm talking about travel uninterrupted by sleep, I think my longest was about 1200km around England one busy day, collecting items I had bought online, even buying a car. The particular car I was in was good (powerful, responsive engine with high gearing and a turbo to mask the layout of the four cylinders, the suspension the very best and roadholding exceptional) except for one thing - the steering. It grew more woolly and more vague until it began to irritate beyond about 750km.[/quote]

I have driven Maruti Zen, wagon R, Honda city quite a few times on the highway but can tell you heat makes you feel sleepy and tired. The A, B and C pillars generally have a plastic cladding but the main heat ingress is from the front windshield and the other glasses. These glasses actually become so hot you that cant touch them and I am saying this about the glasses having a sunfilm on, and which by the way has been made illegal to be used and hence to be removed.
Now how is the A/C system going to deal with that. Surely it wont.
Of course I have not had the good fortune to drive the premium cars so cannot comment on its behavior.
Placing a light coloured fabric on top of the dashboard reflects on the windshield and is not at all comfortable to the eyes.
Importance of road holding and handling becomes more pronounced on twisty roads and mountain roads. On normal dual carriage highways with long straights and gentle banked bends an average suspension system does the job.
So to sum up my personal opinion driving in hot conditions is the most tiring and all else is secondary.

Last edited by norhog : 8th August 2013 at 03:08.
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Old 8th August 2013, 05:47   #30
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Default re: What causes the most fatigue on a long journey?

I voted for Driver ergonomics, haven't you seen Leyland Bus drivers, they have all the other options present in this poll present in the poll but still because they have a spacious working area they are comfortable and do really long distances over and over for years

My friend at work had an Accent executive, the car ticked all the boxes for him, but was a pain on long drives, he felt very uncomfortable and finally sold it off, his other cars were Maruti 800, Alto and Nano and he felt comfortable doing the same distances in them
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