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Old 5th September 2013, 14:19   #76
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Default Re: CCTV Footage: Deadly Accident near Mumbai

This is an almost repetition of the accident that happened in Ahmedabad. Two young boys riding the bike lost their lives and another boy who was driving the BMW is still in jail awaiting trial.

In the Ahmedabad case, just as much as this case, it was the fault of the boys riding the two-wheeler AND the owner of the speeding car, both! The two-wheeler owner should have been more careful while crossing and the car owner shouldn't have been excessively speeding.

Reference post: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/street...ml#post3051458
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Old 5th September 2013, 14:23   #77
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Default Re: CCTV Footage: Deadly Accident near Mumbai

Both the city driver and the omni driver should be equally blamed. The omni guy was trying to make the right turn before the santro which was waiting to make its right turn and in that hurry the poor soul in the omni missed city being driven by another senseless fool.
The eventualities will most probably go like; the female will produce a medical certificate saying she was suffering from anaemia and had a momentary loss of consciousness behind the wheels and will go scot free. The kin of those who lost lives will have to grieve and hope to build the rest of their lives around the insurance money.
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Old 5th September 2013, 14:32   #78
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Default Re: CCTV Footage: Deadly Accident near Mumbai

Quote:
Originally Posted by tharian View Post
From the video, if the lady had the presence of mind to turn the wheel to try and avoid the van, she could have also hit the brakes at the same time and if the City had ABS, which I think it would , it would have reduced the gravity of the accident . But, her speeds were much too high and I am surprised no one in her car requested her to slow down.
No point crying over spilt milk so to say. I would put 80% of the blame on the lady for over speeding and not slowing down at a junction which in itself is breaking the law.

Regards
I second that. 80% of the fault is of the lady(Honda city) for over speeding. I mean it is simply unpardonable to drive at those speeds on Indian streets. What was she thinking ???Poor drivers and occupants of the Omni. Agreed The Omni driver could have been more cautious while intercepting that junction but that does not mean that somebody can mash you the way it did. If the Honda city would have been at sane speeds that accident would have have never happened in first place. Over speeding and no control and responsibility was the sole reason why this accident was so horrible.
The city driver definitely deserves a bigger punishment than a mere court case with section 304 A.
Hope the judge of the court sees the video and punishes the city driver and sets an example for others driving as insanely as she was doing.
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Old 5th September 2013, 14:44   #79
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Default Re: CCTV Footage: Deadly Accident near Mumbai

On second thoughts i wonder what is safety rating of the Omni ?
had it been a better crash rated car i am sure about the following :
1)Occupants wouldn't have been thrown out the way the Omni did ?
2)Possibly no loss of life would have happened which is unfortunately the saddest part here.
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Old 5th September 2013, 14:49   #80
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Default Re: CCTV Footage: Deadly Accident near Mumbai

First things first, good to know that we have some basic set of equipment working, when itís supposed to work - CCTV!

Because I could not play the video from my work place, I tried searching for it on my phone using YouTube app, and the first clip I got was again on the same stretch of road wherein a speeding white Ford Figo rams on the rear end of a crossing trailer at a four cross junction (again!). The complete ceiling of the car is peeled off and with the momentum the car hits the trailers it crosses the entire trailer from underneath. Three youngsters driving - all die instantly. That video is even more disturbing. Anyhow we are not discussing here what accident is more gruesome than the other. My point is, rather two - one, itís again the same stretch of road at late hours and two, its again a crossing wherein the impact happens.

Deductions:
1. As many pointed out, we tend to over speed on empty roads, but should be careful on crossings.
2. Vehicles crossing across should keep a check on the lane they are crossing; given that the other oncoming vehicle has a right of way. (Again this is India; less care whatís right and whatís wrong)
3. So all in all, itís the responsibility of both the drivers to keep a check for any oncoming vehicle.
Suggestion:
On crossroads if not a part of a highway or an expressway, speed bumps can be installed if it has shown a tendency of being an accident prone zone by past records.

"Live to Drive"

Cheers!
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Old 5th September 2013, 15:14   #81
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Default Re: CCTV Footage: Deadly Accident near Mumbai

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Originally Posted by Jakku View Post
I beg to differ with you Sir. Please see the footage again and the van was very slow and had almost completed the turn. Had he been with more speed, he would have escaped the bang.

But, why in this world, do you support that lady (as per the news report) who was almost coming like a bullet? Can't it be like this? The van driver saw the car almost after taking the turn, but assumed he could move on as the car is approaching an intersection and it would be slowing down and not accelerating. Also, realising the danger at the last moment, he could not get enough time to react to the situation.
How did you conclude that I was supporting the City driver? I said both were at fault, City driver for over-speeding and Van driver for being careless. If you think that the Van driver couldn't do anything to avoid this then that's your opinion, I merely shared mine.

Also, to assume that someone's going to slow down or brake, is precisely why defensive driving should be practiced. Otherwise, one should be prepared for something like this because not everyone is going to do exactly how we assume, case in point - this accident! If anyone wants to see more examples, go to liveleak.

In my opinion, all those assuming are putting their and other passengers life in danger and I would most definitely want to label them as 'at fault'.

EDIT: I read my post again and realized that you have certainly not understood or read carefully what I wrote
Quote:
Not defending the City driver who was coming to the van like a bullet but these idiots are the reason why defensive driving should be practiced.
Who in this world would call this defending the City driver?

Last edited by fine69 : 5th September 2013 at 15:18.
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Old 5th September 2013, 15:29   #82
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Default Re: CCTV Footage: Deadly Accident near Mumbai

Same road, similar junction, similar situation.

Who do you think is the one at fault?

Unfortunately, this time it was over-speeding vehicle that ended up paying the price as they had banged into a trailer. Of the 5, 3 occupants were declared dead immediately.

In this situation either the folks were drunk or the driver could not realize the trailer which was crawling across the junction was already half way through when he got there.

This video is from Dec'2012. Please excuse the audio, it's is in Marathi from a regional news channel.


Last edited by mantrig : 5th September 2013 at 15:30.
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Old 5th September 2013, 15:41   #83
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Default Re: CCTV Footage: Deadly Accident near Mumbai

Is there any mention of signals not functioning? What if she had a green light and the omni was turning out of turn. Not to support the Lady driver, but everyone says she was driving like a maniac. I felt she was driving in a straight line in the last lane. Nothing wrong with her driving. And only guesses can be made about the speed. What is the speed limit on that stretch?
Whatever happened is unfortunate, especially for the lady to fight the case. Death occured simply due to negligence of not wearing a seat belt and using a tin foil on wheels as a vehicle.
The incident is called an accident for the specific reason that this wasn't planned. Bail cannot be denied to anyone.
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Old 5th September 2013, 16:04   #84
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Default Re: CCTV Footage: Deadly Accident near Mumbai

Quote:
Originally Posted by riteshritesh View Post
Is there any mention of signals not functioning? What if she had a green light and the omni was turning out of turn.
Notice the video carefully, the traffic lights are blinking (in what I assume is yellow, certainly not red). Yellow means you need to slow down, look all ways and accelerate when it is safe to do so. Blinking red is stop, look and proceed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by riteshritesh View Post
I felt she was driving in a straight line in the last lane. Nothing wrong with her driving. And only guesses can be made about the speed.
I can do 120kmph in a straight line on a decent road. What's your point? We may not be specific in our guesses but any layman can tell that car was doing high speeds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by riteshritesh View Post
What is the speed limit on that stretch?
What speed limit applies at an intersection governed by traffic lights?

Quote:
Originally Posted by riteshritesh View Post
Whatever happened is unfortunate, especially for the lady to fight the case.
Yes, poor lady, survived and is scot-free !

Quote:
Originally Posted by riteshritesh View Post
Death occured simply due to negligence of not wearing a seat belt and using a tin foil on wheels as a vehicle.
Help me understand how a 2 wheel rider wearing a helmet would have survived this accident? So, now you're trying to shift the blame to the van owner for buying a vehicle that's sold legally in India?
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Old 5th September 2013, 16:04   #85
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Default Re: CCTV Footage: Deadly Accident near Mumbai

This is really sad, but I'd agree with the general opinion here -both were at fault.

The car was going too fast at an intersection, but if the van driver was a wee bit more careful this probably could have been avoided. The Maruti Van has zero crash worthiness and it's sad that Maruti is still selling it today.


Quote:
Originally Posted by raveesh_k View Post
.... the first clip I got was again on the same stretch of road wherein a speeding white Ford Figo rams on the rear end of a crossing trailer at a four cross junction (again!). The complete ceiling of the car is peeled off and with the momentum the car hits the trailers it crosses the entire trailer from underneath. Three youngsters driving - all die instantly. ....
This Figo crash happened sometime back & you won't believe it, one person survived this. He was apparently lying down on the back seat so managed to escape.

Last edited by fiat_tarun : 5th September 2013 at 16:07.
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Old 5th September 2013, 16:18   #86
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Default Re: CCTV Footage: Deadly Accident near Mumbai

After seeing the video several times, I am quite sure of the following:
  • The Honda City wasn't planning to do a stop-look-proceed at that junction. Whether the driver was DUI, or in an emergency, or distracted by others in the car, are questions which may never be answered.
  • The Omni, although moving slower than the City, wasn't doing a proper stop-look-proceed at that junction. Not wearing seat belts is a mistake, but travelling in an Omni isn't.
  • It is quite possible that both the City and the Omni were focusing on only whether or not the Santro will step into their path. The Santro stopped to give way, and maybe seeing this the City and the Omni decided not to stop. And then, maybe, the City and the Omni took each other into account only after the Santro made its stand clear -- by then it was too late for both of them.
  • The Omni turns into the path of the City only after the City crosses the Zebra Crossing and enters the junction. At that point, considering the speed at which the City was moving, any directional changes and braking wouldnít have manifested soon enough from the driver's brain to the carís wheels.

Have you seen the Ceat Tyres ad which says "The roads are filled with idiots"? It is 100% true. So practise defensive driving. You may still end-up in an accident, but at least you can assure yourself that you tried your best to keep yourself safe.

Last edited by Miel : 5th September 2013 at 16:22. Reason: Grammar and puctuation
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Old 5th September 2013, 16:24   #87
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Quote:
Notice the video carefully, the traffic lights are blinking
My Bad. She should have been careful and slowed down in that case.

Quote:
We may not be specific in our guesses but any layman can tell that car was doing high speeds.
Layman guesses don't work in court, is my point. You need to be specific. Perception of speed doesn't hold any strength while arguing. I have gone through this, which is why I state the obvious. Unless you have a forensic analysis of the impact on the vehicle ( for which no one has the time in India unfortunately), the speed cannot be determined, inspite of a video grab, this ( whether she was unjustified in driving fast or not) is invalid at the time of argument.



Quote:
Yes, poor lady, survived and is scot-free !
That is for the court to decide after considering all facts. If she has a good lawyer, she will definitely get a lighter sentences


Quote:
Help me understand how a 2 wheel rider wearing a helmet would have survived this accident? So, now you're trying to shift the blame to the van owner for buying a vehicle that's sold legally in India?
He/She wouldn't have for sure. But someone in another Honda City wearing a seatbelt, would have had chances of survival is what I am trying to put forth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miel View Post
Have you seen the Ceat Tyres ad which says "The roads are filled with idiots"? It is 100% true. So practise defensive driving. You may still end-up in an accident, but at least you can assure yourself that you tried your best to keep yourself safe.
Well said. I agree 100%. In India, one should always drive keeping in mind the fact that the opp. party is always reckless and we need to be cautious of their recklessness.

Last edited by noopster : 5th September 2013 at 16:45. Reason: Do NOT create back-to-back posts- it is tantamount to spamming!
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Old 5th September 2013, 16:46   #88
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Default Re: CCTV Footage: Deadly Accident near Mumbai

To me, it looks like the van guy misjudged the speed at which the City was approaching and would have though that he will finish crossing. I wonder if a driver with good reflex (in the City) would have swerved to right to avoid the collision.
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Old 5th September 2013, 16:52   #89
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Default Re: CCTV Footage: Deadly Accident near Mumbai

We often complain, that the problem with Indian traffic law is that the living are always at fault. And I see a first hand account. I am sure, if the lady had died instead of the van guy, everybody would be commenting how the City had right of way, but due to negligence of Van driver the City driver was killed.
From what I see.
1. The City was at high speed. Fault with Citys driver
2. The Van driver did not understand the right of way - Fault of van driver

Prosecuting the City driver only is wrong. they should both go to court and whatever punishment City driver gets the Van driver should also get(if he was not the one killed).

Lastly, there is also the question of what is the speed of the Honda city. Is it 60-70kmph? Looks no faster than that. 70kms is about 20 meters per second. Considering the city crossed the intersection in about a second, I would put speed close to 70 or atmost 80. So its not a speed demon doing 200 on city roads.
Both are at fault, and punishing one for the accident is wrong.

To put things in perspective, unless police had a radar gun evidence of overspeeding the honda city driver would not be arrested, since through traffic on primary road has right of way.
If we go by strict legal terms, I do not even need to be careful while going straight through an intersection where I have right of way. Unfortunately, due to bad drivers, concept of right of way has been diluted. In civilized countries, people on main roads do not even bother about minor side roads, because the guy from the side road is supposed to stop.
I think to educate people about law, police should only prosecute people who violated the right of way and caused an accident. Dead man is right is outdated and wrong.

Last edited by tsk1979 : 5th September 2013 at 16:57.
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Old 5th September 2013, 17:46   #90
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Default Re: CCTV Footage: Deadly Accident near Mumbai

Quote:
The driver panicked and hit the gas instead of the brakes.
This is something which I've started reading more often. Same here? Is that even possible at high speeds?

And why is nobody talking about the crash worthiness of the Omni? Its a head-on and having a bonnet(of any size) would have been better.
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