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Old 5th September 2013, 17:55   #91
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Default Re: CCTV Footage: Deadly Accident near Mumbai

That was Gruesome.

At first after reading some of the posts, i thought the lady was at complete fault. But after playing the video a couple of times, it appears suicidal on the Omni's part. No matter what the speed of the City was, it was definitely visible. One cannot miss out an oncoming vehicle, unless distracted (asking for trouble).

If the City was fast, then all the more reason for the Omni driver to stop before making the turn. Santro did exactly that.

Just for the record, even if she was driving slowly (following the rules) it would have still resulted in an accident albeit a less intense one with no loss of lives. But had the Omni driver been more alert and stopped by (following the rules) there would have been no accident at all.

Omni was at fault and paid a heavy price.
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Old 5th September 2013, 18:05   #92
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Default Re: CCTV Footage: Deadly Accident near Mumbai

Completely agree with everything you said Tanveer, except for this part when applied to this accident.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
If we go by strict legal terms, I do not even need to be careful while going straight through an intersection where I have right of way.
The lights were blinking orange which means slow down (not completely stop) and be careful when crossing the intersection.

But apart from that, you are spot on with your observation.

Also, the seatbelt rule needs to be strictly enforced. And when found in violation in case of an accident, the offender should be punished, no matter the extent of his/her injuries.
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Old 5th September 2013, 18:22   #93
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The seatbelt rule should apply henceforth for all applicants . At the back or in the front . It should be mandatory and strictly enforced .
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Old 5th September 2013, 18:50   #94
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  • It is quite possible that both the City and the Omni were focusing on only whether or not the Santro will step into their path. The Santro stopped to give way, and maybe seeing this the City and the Omni decided not to stop. And then, maybe, the City and the Omni took each other into account only after the Santro made its stand clear -- by then it was too late for both of them.
  • The Omni turns into the path of the City only after the City crosses the Zebra Crossing and enters the junction. At that point, considering the speed at which the City was moving, any directional changes and braking wouldn’t have manifested soon enough from the driver's brain to the car’s wheels.
Whatever be the case , If one is aware about the Indian driving habits and conditions, it is criminal to approach a junction the way the Honda city did.
If the Honda city was at sane speeds (say 40-50kmph) i am sure the accident wouldn't have cost a life even with a greater error by the Omni.




Have you seen the Ceat Tyres ad which says "The roads are filled with idiots"? It is 100% true. So practise defensive driving. You may still end-up in an accident, but at least you can assure yourself that you tried your best to keep yourself safe.[/quote]


Yes well said.

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Originally Posted by riteshritesh View Post
My Bad. She should have been careful and slowed down in that case.

Layman guesses don't work in court, is my point. You need to be specific. Perception of speed doesn't hold any strength while arguing. I have gone through this, which is why I state the obvious. Unless you have a forensic analysis of the impact on the vehicle ( for which no one has the time in India unfortunately), the speed cannot be determined, inspite of a video grab, this ( whether she was unjustified in driving fast or not) is invalid at the time of argument.



That is for the court to decide after considering all facts. If she has a good lawyer, she will definitely get a lighter sentences


He/She wouldn't have for sure. But someone in another Honda City wearing a seatbelt, would have had chances of survival is what I am trying to put forth.



Well said. I agree 100%. In India, one should always drive keeping in mind the fact that the opp. party is always reckless and we need to be cautious of their recklessness.

At the end of it all , The way the Honda city was being driven, it was bound to meet this fate if not at that junction then at some other forthcoming junction.
The Omni's fault was just that it had to be it.
How i wish the crash ratings are made mandatory in our country.
I am sure the occupants would have been safe or escaped with minor injuries.

Last edited by Vid6639 : 5th September 2013 at 22:23. Reason: merging posts. Please use edit option if posting within 30mins. Thanks!
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Old 5th September 2013, 19:04   #95
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Default Re: CCTV Footage: Deadly Accident near Mumbai

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitoj View Post
Completely agree with everything you said Tanveer, except for this part when applied to this accident.



The lights were blinking orange which means slow down (not completely stop) and be careful when crossing the intersection.

But apart from that, you are spot on with your observation.

Also, the seatbelt rule needs to be strictly enforced. And when found in violation in case of an accident, the offender should be punished, no matter the extent of his/her injuries.
I would like to differ with Tanveer because though the city had the right of way as it was going straight, by driving at speed beyond permissible limit, the driver had breached the law. Rules can not be read in isolation unless they are so worded, as to the precedence of one over the other. As they say, speed though thrills it kills at times.
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Old 5th September 2013, 19:13   #96
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Default Re: CCTV Footage: Deadly Accident near Mumbai

A very sad scene. Seatbelt is absolutely important. Atleast you dont get thrown out of the vehicle and have to encounter other oncoming vehicles.
Its a no brainer to slow down in a four crossing. was also appaled to see the Santro guy not stopping over to help.
God be with the deceased and injured.
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Old 5th September 2013, 19:29   #97
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Default Re: CCTV Footage: Deadly Accident near Mumbai

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Originally Posted by FuelInjector View Post
was also appaled to see the Santro guy not stopping over to help
90%+ of the posts in this thread have focused how shocking and gruesome this accident was. When we clicked on the link, we expected a deadly accident. The person is Santro was the person to watch it live. The shock and trauma he/she would have gone through at that moment is incomprehensible to us. They were inches within meeting the same fate as the people in the Omni. There is high chance the passengers of the Santro needed help after this accident. Let us refrain from making such statements.

Note: From the video, it is clear the Santro does not speed away. The vehicle crosses the road slowly and stops to the left.
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Old 5th September 2013, 19:36   #98
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Default Re: CCTV Footage: Deadly Accident near Mumbai

Maybe the car was doing 70-80kmh . But I feel it was more.
What caused the van with a load of people to spin, flip on its side, and again lift itself up and all the while spinning and then halt, was the angle of collision, and momentum did the rest.
Right corner of a sedan doing a fair clip, hitting a vehicle that is light and has a high centre of gravity ,on its left when they were almost perpendicular.

All reasons come into picture here.
City speeding, Omni being what it is, confusion due to a third car , right of way or just ignorance.
Accidents will continue to happen , that's why they are called accidents. When it has to happen, it happens.
In this case, if the Omni was a truck, the passengers in the City would be goners.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FuelInjector View Post
was also appaled to see the Santro guy not stopping over to help.
God be with the deceased and injured.
This has been mentioned by few earlier.
The Santro guy used his head and moved his car the opposite side and parked and got out , probably to help.


Regards

Last edited by tharian : 5th September 2013 at 20:04. Reason: added info
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Old 5th September 2013, 19:47   #99
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Default Re: CCTV Footage: Deadly Accident near Mumbai

Why are sale of vehicles such as the Omni being allowed in 2013? One can see that it offered absolutely no resistance to the impact instead almost opening up at the front and throwing the occupants out. Videos like this are an eye opener to the fact that the concerned authorities do not give a damn about vehicular safety (I wonder what they will say when questioned about the existence of such norms).

One constructive use of this thread would be to ponder over how such an incident could be avoided.
For eg: why doesn't the concerned road safety authority enforce simple things like existence of seat belts in commercial vehicles, ABS and at least dual front airbags for passenger vehicles, set norms for headlight intensity, enforce turn signal switch on RHS, at least provide some safety rating for vehicles (similar to euro NCAP rating) etc. instead of fake ARAI mileage numbers in 2013.

Last edited by sydras : 5th September 2013 at 19:54.
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Old 5th September 2013, 20:07   #100
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Default Re: CCTV Footage: Deadly Accident near Mumbai

Quote:
Originally Posted by sydras View Post
Why are sale of vehicles such as the Omni being allowed in 2013? One can see that it offered absolutely no resistance to the impact instead almost opening up at the front and throwing the occupants out. Videos like this are an eye opener to the fact that the concerned authorities do not give a damn about vehicular safety (I wonder what they will say when questioned about the existence of such norms).
Dear Mate, I also raised the same point in my only post in this thread but may be the post was removed sighting some issue. I firmly believe that Omni is not a safe car in any respect. They should be prohibited to be driven on road. If one is travelling in a omni and any car overtakes it at a high speed say 100 odd kmph it shakes. It is a personal and undeniable experience of mine. Its definitely an eye opener and high time to re-think on the car's crash worthiness.

PS: As per the footage, I want to ask, Is it not a rule to give way to the traffic coming from the right side?

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Old 5th September 2013, 20:09   #101
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Default Re: CCTV Footage: Deadly Accident near Mumbai

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Lastly, there is also the question of what is the speed of the Honda city. Is it 60-70kmph? Looks no faster than that. 70kms is about 20 meters per second. Considering the city crossed the intersection in about a second, I would put speed close to 70 or atmost 80. So its not a speed demon doing 200 on city roads.
I think 60-70 kmph is insane speed at the junctions, especially ones without traffic lights.
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Old 5th September 2013, 20:36   #102
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Default Re: CCTV Footage: Deadly Accident near Mumbai

This was a perfectly preventable accident.

If I were the van driver:
I'd have bothered to look ahead and spot the pair of lights coming at me at probably kmph and waited a couple of seconds for it to pass. And before all that, BELT UP.

If I were the City driver:
I'd slow down at the intersection, and look at the van inching undecidedly towards the intersection, and apply my brakes.

Road Safety is not something which we can take for granted. This video should be looked at as a tutorial on how not to drive. Learn from it, make sure you don't do it yourself!
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Old 5th September 2013, 20:47   #103
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Default Re: CCTV Footage: Deadly Accident near Mumbai

What Happened?-
Individual perspectives-
One car driver was careful, saw both the vehicles and decided to stop and wait, better safe than sorry... (a.k.a Santro).
The other car driver saw the Santro stop, either did not see the City or decided he could make it across before the City and decided to move ahead.
The City, either the lady did not want to slow down or did not know there was a Junction or did not see the Omni and kept up her speed seeing the Santro stop.
Incident-
The City saw that the Omni was moving in and at the last moment tried to swerve left hoping to avoid collision, she had already seen the Santro stop so she could not take a larger left and the inevitable happened.
The Omni found out that the City was there or was at a speed which was more than he expected and tries turning right..?? As an ex Omni owner i know when you try to break in that vehicle the front part of it bends severely as if bowing down, so i am sure he did not break.

What Happened after..?
Omni of course no was in a position to move, the Santro parks his car in the opposite side of the road and comes over to make sure no other incident happens (I like this guys caution)
The City, it does not seem that if the car was fit to drive.. also i don't think after an accident like that the driver would be in a position to get back behind the wheel for a long time. I am not sure how the lady went away from the spot but if it was me i would probably have scooted too after making sure there was nothing i could do.. Why..?
My Experience, Passers by get exited, start blaming the larger car owner for over speeding and if things get ugly they could start beating up the guy based on their perception of whose fault it is, they rarely wait for the police at least not in Bangalore (There was a situation once where the car in front of me hit a bike and sped away, my cab driver stopped by the side to check on the biker, passers by started accusing my cab driver of causing the accident, luckily someone who saw the whole thing clarified) That is the main reason after an accident you see the drivers missing, especially BMTC bus drivers head straight to the Police Station, at least in Bangalore it is difficult for the survivor.
PS: I do not think the lady was under influence, this is just a personal opinion but if she had her husband in the vehicle then he was probably the one who was under influence and because of which the lady was driving, i thought my wife to drive for the same specific reason (Not that ladies don't like to drive, just that the number is very less who drive because they like it, they drive because they have to). Please don't blame me as being bias towards women but i have noticed that women do tend to get very emotional and of course it is difficult to concentrate on the road when you are distracted with your emotions, so if she was having having an argument in the car she could have very well been distracted.

An ideal way the cars should have passed-
The City slows down at the Junction even after seeing the Santro stop just to be cautious (If the driver knew there was an inter junction), the Omni does the stop look then move routine, If this had been done then it would have definitely been the City which passed as the other 2 cars were stationary.

I guess as everyone has quoted above both drivers are to blame and i don't think i would blame one more than the other, i hope the court gives a just verdict.
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Old 5th September 2013, 20:54   #104
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Default Re: CCTV Footage: Deadly Accident near Mumbai

Serious Accident. Too bad that the Omni did not halt and proceed. Had that Omni driver waited for a few seconds, the unfortunate accident could have been avoided.

As I suffered the same type of accident near Kanchipuram, here is my take on it.
- By law, the one who tries to cross the intersection has to HALT / WAIT (onward coming vehicles get the first preference and not the crossing vehicles) and then cross. The police inspector who handled my case informed me this. (Luckily I was not crossing, it is the other party in my accident case). The fault is on the OMNI in the video.

- By law, ALL DRIVERS ARE REQUIRED TO SLOW DOWN at any T-Junctions, Cross Roads or Median Gap. The fault is on the HONDA CITY here.

There is a chance that the OMNI driver was not able to get a full view of the speeding HONDA untill he moved a few feet ahead. The co-passenger could be blocking the view possibly. Also the HONDA was speeding on the right lane, so that the visibility to OMNI's driver is a gamble.

There is a chance that the speeding HONDA was concentrating on the SANTRO which was waiting at the junction, and missed to notice the crawling OMNI at the junction. At the speed the HONDA came through, the focus / concentration on ALL VEHICLES at the junction is virtually tough.

Summing up, I see the fault is on both OMNI and HONDA CITY. They have to blame themselves. This accident could have been avoided if both parties drove safe. Alas, they did not realize until the accident happened.

In my accident case, there were no casualties, but minor injuries. I hit a crossing Swift with my Alto. The swift and alto turned 180 degrees, facing the direction we came from. Later, the police said that we all were lucky because, had the swift collided on my alto, there would have been atleast one dead-body. And I see that actually happened in this video footage. Honda City, a relatively heavy car compared to OMNI, which was zooming with great speed, collided on a less safer / tinny OMNI and created a casualty situation. I am getting goosebumps as I type this. Scary!

If there are lessons to be taken from this accident.. then these points would stand valid
1. Wear Seat Belt
2. Wait and move ahead, at Cross Roads no matter how long it takes
3. Slow down at Junctions and T-junctions, or median gaps
4. Always drive with SAFETY FIRST motto. After all it is all about our own lives.

Last edited by rajeshsundaram : 5th September 2013 at 21:07.
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Old 5th September 2013, 21:17   #105
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Default Re: CCTV Footage: Deadly Accident near Mumbai

Scary accident..dont want to see it again. Hope the injured ones recover soon. But one question comes to mind now, may be this would have discussed here earlier but if not, please someone explain this.
I believe the impact would have reduced if its a car instead of an omni van,
Maruti omni's are still made the same from the 90's. just a piece of metal sheet and glass on front. Lack of safety regulations are primary reason for this car still in production. Is there any attempt from public or authorities
or case against manufacturing this car..?
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